Surge: Not just an old school soft drink but very beneficial to your reef tank?

[SteveMM62Reef]

Just put a Jebao CP-120 Cross Flow on my 120 Gallon today. Played around with it first, in a Dishpan. Made the mistake of turning it all the way up, in the tank. Poor Astraea Snails got blown around, and some knocked of the glass. Spent 40 minutes looking and righting them. Yes, I know it’s a Cheap Pump, when it fails, I won’t cry as hard. Has anyone used Amazon’s Extended Warranty? I have 30 days, to buy it for the pump.

 

[Eienna]

One of the display tanks at Deep Sea Creations was set up to simulate a wave every so often. It was so cool! I'd love to see if I could do that too.

 

[jdpiii3]

All my fish better hold on with their little fins my MP 60s run in full power pulse mode several times a day.

 

[TangerineSpeedo]

I have a severely modified 13.5 temperate (cold water) tank that I built an actual Surge sump that sits above. Powered by a Sicce 3.0 that pulls water from the 13.5, runs it down to the chiller and then up above into the mechanical filter chamber which includes a 4 inch sock with a custom built holder and a Eshopps Nano skimmer. the water then flows into a purpose built refugium. From there it trickles into the two "Surge" chambers. Each holds approximately 2.25g and through the use of a bell siphon dumps a chamber in about 20 secs. One chambers empties at the water line and the other below, close to the bottom. Also the chambers held Bio Balls and/or Bio Media which promoted a good amount of gas exchange for the aerobic bacteria, while rinsing and preventing detritus build up. My purpose of creating this system was to mimic a tide pool scenario.
I would make a few refinements if I did it again, but it has worked out really well. Although it does sound like a toilet flushing every few minutes, but I really don’t hear it anymore.

 

[sghera64]

I have a 6ft long 135 Gallon Oceanic DT. I use 3 Reef Breeder RP-M turbines along the back on reef mode and one of them on the left side of the tank. On the right side of the tank I have a Jebao RW-16, which comes on for 2 hours during peak lighting and about 2 hrs before lights on. This pump comes on near max power and really changes up the water flow current in the tank. It blows detritus off of rocks and moves the sand around quite a bit and helps keep it suspended until it goes out the overflow.

 

[o2manyfish]

This is a misleading topic title - Surge is a "Surge" not just water turning on/off with a pump.

I ran a 30g surge tank on a second story balcony that dropped 26g of water in 7 seconds thru a 2" pipe into a 400g tank.

When that valve opened the water rushed across the entire length of the tank. If the outlet was less than 6" from the surface of the water it would make a wave that breaks on the far end of an 8' tank.

I've experimented with Gyre pumps on my 8' frag tanks - And while they may circulate water - and you may like to run them at variable speeds or on/off - They definitely don't create a surge of water.

I think many of the people posting here are referring to pulsing pumps and pulsing water flow - Whether this is a continuous pulse that creates the rhythmic swaying of all the water in the tank - or a sudden boost of power that slightly alters the 'flow' in the tank in one direction for a moment or two - or minute or two.

But these are alternating flow systems.

If you're running an MP60 on the end of a 40b and it randomly turns on at 100% for 2 seconds you might be creating a surge.

Now I have moved up from the 400g to a 750g - the aquarium flipped sides of the room so while the surge tank is still on the outside balcony it's not currently plumbed into the tank.

I am playing with the Panta Rhei Hydrowizard ECM63 and the Abyzz Flow Canon 150 - These are pumps that output 17k-24k gph - When a gyre pump says its 2500gph that doesn't mean it's pumping 2500gph that means it has the ability to move up to the equivalence of 2500 gallons of water to some degree - Because these pumps (gyre, MP, WAV, Streams) don't actually produce pressure that could push water thru a pipe - there isn't any standard or means for rating the outputs or even being able to test the outputs of these pumps.

 

[design.maddie]

I had a 70 gallon lagoon softie tank back in '06 that had a strong surge device. It was a standard Maxijet 1200 DIYed on a timer. I had a closed loop doing double alternating flow through the bottom and top (4 outputs). The Maxijet would kick on and stay on for 30 minutes, on and off every 30 minutes for I think 8 hours out the day. These days my tank is setup as some type of chaotic reef crest driven by algorithms in my phone.

 

[RIC13]

I have 3 tanks each with different flow, and all 3 tanks are happy. My 4’ Red Sea mixed reef is the only one with a surge which is created by an MP40 on pulse mode. Originally, I had it on Reef Crest mode, but I wasn’t happy with the polyp extension on my acros. Since making the change to pulse mode every coral is happy.

 

[Treefer32]

I use for Gyres - 2x FX 280 and 2 x FX 350s. They are mounted at the surface (horizontally) on opposite ends (2 on each side) on my 6 ft by 3 ft wide tank. I control them with the Hydros Wave engine, which I love. Right now I've got it set to go 50-85% Gyre mode. For most of the day and then once in the morning I go constant at max for 1 hour to push nutrients into the overflows. At night I set them to 60% to allow things to relax a bit. I've noticed that if I turn them off and let the water sit for a bit, then turn them back on, all kinds of gunk is sucked out of the rocks and sand bed. I almost thing some calm time to let things settle then sudden high speeds causes more detritus removal than constant or wave like flows. But, I'm happy with the surges my gyres create. I feel like I could use a couple more and the only downside of the wave engine is it only has ports for 4 gyres. I wish I could add a couple more pushing back to front, but, I have 2 MP40s doing that for me right now.

My fish love the MP 40s. My Caribbean blue tang fights for a spot in front of one of the two to swim against the current multiple times a day. He likes his work outs! (It doesn't help his figure... He's plump...)

 

[djf91]

This is a misleading topic title - Surge is a "Surge" not just water turning on/off with a pump.

I ran a 30g surge tank on a second story balcony that dropped 26g of water in 7 seconds thru a 2" pipe into a 400g tank.

When that valve opened the water rushed across the entire length of the tank. If the outlet was less than 6" from the surface of the water it would make a wave that breaks on the far end of an 8' tank.

I've experimented with Gyre pumps on my 8' frag tanks - And while they may circulate water - and you may like to run them at variable speeds or on/off - They definitely don't create a surge of water.

I think many of the people posting here are referring to pulsing pumps and pulsing water flow - Whether this is a continuous pulse that creates the rhythmic swaying of all the water in the tank - or a sudden boost of power that slightly alters the 'flow' in the tank in one direction for a moment or two - or minute or two.

But these are alternating flow systems.

If you're running an MP60 on the end of a 40b and it randomly turns on at 100% for 2 seconds you might be creating a surge.

Now I have moved up from the 400g to a 750g - the aquarium flipped sides of the room so while the surge tank is still on the outside balcony it's not currently plumbed into the tank.

I am playing with the Panta Rhei Hydrowizard ECM63 and the Abyzz Flow Canon 150 - These are pumps that output 17k-24k gph - When a gyre pump says its 2500gph that doesn't mean it's pumping 2500gph that means it has the ability to move up to the equivalence of 2500 gallons of water to some degree - Because these pumps (gyre, MP, WAV, Streams) don't actually produce pressure that could push water thru a pipe - there isn't any standard or means for rating the outputs or even being able to test the outputs of these pumps.

I agree with this. The Carlson surge was popular back in the day and it kind of sounds like this is what you used but raised the reservoir above the tank far higher than most people.

I’ve often thought about surge devices. In my opinion the Carlson and other devices using a pipe to deliver a surge from a bucket is underwhelming. I’ve thought about some type of large container filling with water to the top and then tipping over and spilling all of its contents onto a ramp that flows into the tank. I think this would give the perfect surge wave you would see on a reef. Probly sounds ridiculous but I think it would be cool.

 

[FreeEnergyReefer]

Yup big believer in surge flow even run it in my nano

 

[TWYOUNG]

I will defiantly keep you posted im actually getting 7 maybe 8 of those fish this friday so fingers crossed. I had about 12 of the fish on my stocking list for a little while but i got a blonde naso that came in with black ick i didnt realize it and i didnt have a qt at the time. Next thing i know he, my hippo tang, angel, and foxface came down with it and then i realized he got everyone infected with black ick and i got a qt set up now for wild caught fish learned from that night mere of a mistake. Sad thing is though i still couldn't get it cured after trying to treat them for over a month so i was lucky enough to give my fish i had to a good home who still wanted then even after i had told them and am starting fresh with new fish starting this week. My tank has been fishless for 2 and a half months tomorrow. I let my lfs know this week is the week for my restock and he only supplies captive bred fish so he is getting me 7 fish on that list that he has captive bred. Any wild caught fish im defiantly going to make sure to ask questions about then and leave them in observation/qt for a month before i add them into the dt.

Is "black ich" different from regular ich? Worse?

 

[Mr. Mojo Rising]

I do it manually. I have 2 gyre's in my 32 gallon which are at about 30%-45%. Once in a while I put them both at 100% for a few minutes, it creates a wicked super surge

 

[Jwise]

It is

Is "black ich" different from regular ich? Worse?

much worse and its a more rare type of parasite. Its different because it is a worm and ick is like a tick. Its also completely tolerant to copper and prazi so you need to treat your fish with Hydroxicloiquene to try and kill it and even then your guaranteed about a 50/50 chance of curing it you also got to manually remove it from your qt (which has to be a bare bottom aquarium) when you see black spots that look like little pencil marks on the bottom of the tank. So long story short its a big pain to deal with. Best signs to look out for it is when you see a fish shaking its head like its got flukes it could be black ick and if you look and see black spots that look like ick spots but thier black then do not buy any fish from that spot because like i said its a big pain. That's why i got rid of my fish because i still couldn't cure it even after doing all of that.

 

[AKG]

I did at one point consider an above-tank sump with a Pythagorean siphon surge flow. I'm still considering it.

 

[Shooter6]

I would call the flow in my reef mostly sure style. All my powerheads and gyres are jebao models. All are on max speed. Else mode and the dial turned all the way down to have the longest period of time between each on pulses. Some of the gyres are along the bottom back and sides. This causes surges through the rockwork. ( no sandbed).

 

[o2manyfish]

I did at one point consider an above-tank sump with a Pythagorean siphon surge flow. I'm still considering it.

I started with a siphon surge originally. But there were a couple of drawbacks to it. Taking into consideration mine was almost 30g and used all 2" plumbing.

When the siphon starts it starts slowly - you have to have a filler pump that's fast enough to raise the water level in the surge tank fast enough to push the air out of the pipe to start the siphon - If no you end up with a pipe that drains water back to the tank just as fast as water is being pumped into the tank. (This is not a surge - lol)

To start the siphon you have to get the water to push all the air out of the pipe and fill the pipe with gravity pulled water. All this air comes out of the pipe - into the display tank - as bubbles and then microbubbles.

Then the siphon begins and you have a woosh of water as the siphon runs full bore - This pushes all the bubbles across and around the tank.

Then you run out of water and as the water runs out the siphon starts snorkeling - This creates a rush of air bubbles at the end of the surge run - and also creates a snorkeling sound that ends with a belch when air replaces the water in the pipe. In my configuration with 2" plumbing, this sounded like a wave crashing on the beach.

If you have a 29g surge tank - The first 3-8gallons takes maybe 15 seconds to come down the pipe and start the siphon. Then the last 2-3 gallons takes maybe 5- seconds to break the siphon and drain the pipe. And in the middle for about 10 seconds you get a full gravity siphon for maybe 20g of water.

I ran this system for about 8 years. There are no moving parts - You rely on gravity - so it doesn't fail (unless in my case a rat knocks the top off the surge tank, falls in, get's stuck in the pipe, blocks the siphon, and then the pump pumps your tank out of your house and onto the balcony). Taking rodents out of the picture - there is nothing to fail - ever.

After 8 years I switched to a motorized ball valve - The technology had advanced enough to where a 2" ball valve had an open/closing speed of less than 2 seconds. There are many advantages to the ball valve:

1) After the first cycle of the surge system - the pipe is filled with water - the air has all been replaced. This means that when the surge occurs there is no air bubbles entering the tank, there is no air bubbles being blown across the tank, there is no burping from the tank as the siphon starts and no rush of bubbles at the end when the siphon ends. With a motorized ball valve the only way to know the surge was cycling was to see all the corals blowing in one direction and to watch an Achilles tang or a pipe fish or sea horse fly across the tank - Don't think of this as animal brutality - The seahorse and pipe fish would line up in front of the pipe outlet and ride the surge wave across the tank. The surge tank ran on set schedule throughout the day - when the surge tank was off no one would line up. But when it was time for the surge tank to run on fish would line up to be in the path. The Achilles most notably would sit right in front of the pipe outlet just waiting to be blown away and try to fight the current.

Also with the valve - without having to start and finish the siphon each time - But merely turning it on/off - the siphon is immediate - which resulted in all 29g of water being a siphon and all the water draining in just under 10 seconds.

With the ball valve you have to rely on the valve, a couple of float switches and a delayed relay timer. So there are multiple points of potential failure. However, after 9 years of running this system I had to replace one motorized ball valve (motor died - no leakage) and the rest of the system worked flawlessly.

If you start experimenting with a siphon surge system - do not experiment with a toilet valve style. While this seem so simple. It's also the loudest / noisiest - in both the movement of water and the mechanics of the ball **** float valve.

Dave B

 

[AKG]

I started with a siphon surge originally. But there were a couple of drawbacks to it. Taking into consideration mine was almost 30g and used all 2" plumbing.

When the siphon starts it starts slowly - you have to have a filler pump that's fast enough to raise the water level in the surge tank fast enough to push the air out of the pipe to start the siphon - If no you end up with a pipe that drains water back to the tank just as fast as water is being pumped into the tank. (This is not a surge - lol)

To start the siphon you have to get the water to push all the air out of the pipe and fill the pipe with gravity pulled water. All this air comes out of the pipe - into the display tank - as bubbles and then microbubbles.

Then the siphon begins and you have a woosh of water as the siphon runs full bore - This pushes all the bubbles across and around the tank.

Then you run out of water and as the water runs out the siphon starts snorkeling - This creates a rush of air bubbles at the end of the surge run - and also creates a snorkeling sound that ends with a belch when air replaces the water in the pipe. In my configuration with 2" plumbing, this sounded like a wave crashing on the beach.

If you have a 29g surge tank - The first 3-8gallons takes maybe 15 seconds to come down the pipe and start the siphon. Then the last 2-3 gallons takes maybe 5- seconds to break the siphon and drain the pipe. And in the middle for about 10 seconds you get a full gravity siphon for maybe 20g of water.

I ran this system for about 8 years. There are no moving parts - You rely on gravity - so it doesn't fail (unless in my case a rat knocks the top off the surge tank, falls in, get's stuck in the pipe, blocks the siphon, and then the pump pumps your tank out of your house and onto the balcony). Taking rodents out of the picture - there is nothing to fail - ever.

After 8 years I switched to a motorized ball valve - The technology had advanced enough to where a 2" ball valve had an open/closing speed of less than 2 seconds. There are many advantages to the ball valve:

1) After the first cycle of the surge system - the pipe is filled with water - the air has all been replaced. This means that when the surge occurs there is no air bubbles entering the tank, there is no air bubbles being blown across the tank, there is no burping from the tank as the siphon starts and no rush of bubbles at the end when the siphon ends. With a motorized ball valve the only way to know the surge was cycling was to see all the corals blowing in one direction and to watch an Achilles tang or a pipe fish or sea horse fly across the tank - Don't think of this as animal brutality - The seahorse and pipe fish would line up in front of the pipe outlet and ride the surge wave across the tank. The surge tank ran on set schedule throughout the day - when the surge tank was off no one would line up. But when it was time for the surge tank to run on fish would line up to be in the path. The Achilles most notably would sit right in front of the pipe outlet just waiting to be blown away and try to fight the current.

Also with the valve - without having to start and finish the siphon each time - But merely turning it on/off - the siphon is immediate - which resulted in all 29g of water being a siphon and all the water draining in just under 10 seconds.

With the ball valve you have to rely on the valve, a couple of float switches and a delayed relay timer. So there are multiple points of potential failure. However, after 9 years of running this system I had to replace one motorized ball valve (motor died - no leakage) and the rest of the system worked flawlessly.

If you start experimenting with a siphon surge system - do not experiment with a toilet valve style. While this seem so simple. It's also the loudest / noisiest - in both the movement of water and the mechanics of the ball **** float valve.

Dave B

What size tank is using the 30g surge?

I was thinking of doing a surge in a 29 gallon tank and here you are building a 30 gallon surge for a huuuge tank!

 

[Reef Republica]

At night when my more sensitive lps like torches are closed I run my 2 gyres (icecap4k) at 100% on my 6ft 120. They alternate running at 100% for 30 seconds each for 1 hour. Gets things moving for sure. My reef is mixed so it can be difficult to always make everyone happy.

Beautiful tank!

 

[F i s h y]

Beautiful tank!

Thank you