Swedish fish - behind the scenes rebuilding a public aquarium

[Lasse]

Its very small and probably food for many non photosyntetic corals.

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Dr. Dendrostein]

You can be small but effective

Sincerely Lasse

Yea, it's not the size that matters, it's the way you use it. Right Lasse. Heehee

 

[Sallstrom]

@Brew12
When I was looking into food sources for NPS corals like Dendronephthya I found some good articles which described the uptake of different phytoplankton in different parts of a corals reef. There I found the groups Synechococcus and Prochlorococcus. Really small phytoplankton which are the most common ones in the ocean. Actually they are the most abundant oxygenic phototrophs on earth(I stole that line from this article https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3441193/ )

Anyway, my thought was that since these organisms are that abundant they probably are a food source for many corals. We bought 20L and dosed in our NPS experiment tank. I can't say we got any great results, but I still want to try again
But then we need to learn how to culture them ourselves, otherwise it would be too expensive. That's why I try to push @Lasse into setting up a way to culture them

They company we bought Synechococcus from(PlanktonPlus) also claims they might outcompete the red cyano mats. Wouldn't that be something

I'm looking around for more types of live food now. Both phytoplankton and zooplankton. I would like to learn to culture calaniod copepods for example.

 

[Brew12]

@Brew12
When I was looking into food sources for NPS corals like Dendronephthya I found some good articles which described the uptake of different phytoplankton in different parts of a corals reef. There I found the groups Synechococcus and Prochlorococcus. Really small phytoplankton which are the most common ones in the ocean. Actually they are the most abundant oxygenic phototrophs on earth(I stole that line from this article https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3441193/ )

Anyway, my thought was that since these organisms are that abundant they probably are a food source for many corals. We bought 20L and dosed in our NPS experiment tank. I can't say we got any great results, but I still want to try again
But then we need to learn how to culture them ourselves, otherwise it would be too expensive. That's why I try to push @Lasse into setting up a way to culture them

They company we bought Synechococcus from(PlanktonPlus) also claims they might outcompete the red cyano mats. Wouldn't that be something

I'm looking around for more types of live food now. Both phytoplankton and zooplankton. I would like to learn to culture calaniod copepods for example.

Very interesting! For some reason I was thinking many NPS would prefer larger sized phytoplankton but I'm not sure why I have had that impression. It makes sense that the smaller size may be beneficial.

I would be shocked if they don't outcompete the cyano mats. I'm convinced that the matting process uses a great deal of energy. They are nearly bullet proof once that mat is formed. Until then, they are easily kept in check by competition with other less harmful bacteria, flagellates, and algae.

Absolutely love the work you guys are doing there!

 

[Sallstrom]

Very interesting! For some reason I was thinking many NPS would prefer larger sized phytoplankton but I'm not sure why I have had that impression. It makes sense that the smaller size may be beneficial.

I would be shocked if they don't outcompete the cyano mats. I'm convinced that the matting process uses a great deal of energy. They are nearly bullet proof once that mat is formed. Until then, they are easily kept in check by competition with other less harmful bacteria, flagellates, and algae.

Absolutely love the work you guys are doing there!

Here's an article @Lasse found last week. Coral mucus as an efficient trap for pico plankton like Synechococcus
https://www.int-res.com/articles/meps2009/385/m385p065.pdf

About the food size for NPS, that depends on what species we talk about and how they catch their food. Sun corals you can feed with frozen mysis, they got large polyps and mouths. Dendronephthya no one knows yet Might be pico plankton like bacteria and cyanobacteria.
But my guess is phytoplankton is a good food source for many corals, even Acroporas.

Thanks for the support, really appreciate it!

 

[Dr. Dendrostein]

Very interesting! For some reason I was thinking many NPS would prefer larger sized phytoplankton but I'm not sure why I have had that impression. It makes sense that the smaller size may be beneficial.

I would be shocked if they don't outcompete the cyano mats. I'm convinced that the matting process uses a great deal of energy. They are nearly bullet proof once that mat is formed. Until then, they are easily kept in check by competition with other less harmful bacteria, flagellates, and algae.

Absolutely love the work you guys are doing there!

That's why I try to push @Lasse into setting up a way to culture them

Trying to push Lasse, is like trying to push tha Swiss Alps.
You can't do it. Can't, just Can't.

Oh no, I said "Can't & Lasse."
Not good.

 

[Sallstrom]

New for us, dipping Acropora corals in tank water with extra potassium. Raised the K from ca 400ppm to ca 1600ppm. Dip is going on right now. Starting with 20 minutes.
Testing with 6 different species of Acropora.

I'll get back with results after lunch

 

[Scrubber_steve]

New for us, dipping Acropora corals in tank water with extra potassium. Raised the K from ca 400ppm to ca 1600ppm. Dip is going on right now. Starting with 20 minutes.
Testing with 6 different species of Acropora.

I'll get back with results after lunch

Potassium Dosing - 3 x NSW Levelhttps://www.reef2reef.com/threads/potassium-dosing-3-x-nsw-level.421933/

 

[Sallstrom]

Okey. First impression. 5mm Gammarus amphipods were dead/stunned after just a couple of minutes. A Asterina seastar dead after 20 minutes. So it kills/stun stuff for sure. I couldn't find any AEFW, but that might just be because the corals were dipped a couple of month ago and the flatworms hasn't returned. This was mostly a test to see how the corals react after a treatment. The corals did release some musus/slime.
Now they are all back in the propagation tanks where they were before. Will check on them to see if they were affected bad by the dip.

 

[Sallstrom]

Potassium Dosing - 3 x NSW Levelhttps://www.reef2reef.com/threads/potassium-dosing-3-x-nsw-level.421933/

Looks like an small overdose might be really dangerous to me I'll check the talk, thanks!

 

[Scrubber_steve]

Looks like an small overdose might be really dangerous to me I'll check the talk, thanks!

I'd be intetested on your thoughts Sallstrom, if you could add them to my thread pls

 

[Sallstrom]

I'd be intetested on your thoughts Sallstrom, if you could add them to my thread pls

I start out here, I haven't done that much reaserch on Potassium. So this is just my opinion on playing around with Potassium levels

Interesting talk! Personally I can admit that this is those kind of things I would have wanted to try 5 or 10 years ago. Nowadays I try to stick to the numbers Triton lab uses as NSW levels, just to have a baseline. And I've tried to meassure K with hobbytest, but didn't work that well for me.

So maybe if you have a test you trust and can do yourself, raising the K might not do any harm if you don't go to high. But I've just seen what K at 4 times NSW level does in 20 minutes Corals might do fine in 1200 ppm Potassium, but I also like to be able to have crustaceans, mulluscs, echinoderms etc in those tanks I run. How do they react long term in those conditions?

So I might be a coward, but I like to stay as close as possible to the numbers we've set up as set points. As for Iron, we dose Iron as well as Potassium, but only up to the level we decided to follow. Iron might go to higher levels than NSW, but we decrease the dosage long before it goes up to dangerous levels. This is because the ICP test can't detect low enough levels to show NSW levels on iron. Usually we get zero in iron on our ICP tests, even if we dose daily.

Generally I'm a bit tired of all things people do to make their corals grow faster and faster. I'm happy our corals survive and grow at all, I don't really care if they could have a bit better colours or if they grow super fast
I aim more for keeping the species we acquiring long term and make sure our "stock" of this or that coral is big enough, and devided in different tanks, so if one tank crasch, we still got colonies of all species in that tank somewhere else, as a backup.

Sorry for an long answer, and that I drifted away from the question!

 

[Scrubber_steve]

Thanks Sallstrom. As usual you make good points & complete sense.

 

[Victoria M]

I enjoyed your perspective also.

 

[Sallstrom]

Thanks Sallstrom. As usual you make good points & complete sense.

Did a search via Google and found some threads on other forums with the following claims:
-Small crustaceans might die if K goes over 600 ppm.
-Fish can start die at 600-700 ppm K.

I haven't looked up any more info on this, so this is not any evidens. Just someones notes on a forum.

I also found an in tank treatment example with potassium, killing snails, pods, and most things except corals. The aquarist was happy because the AEFW were gone

Anyway, might be a good thing to be careful when increasing the potassium level above NSW levels. It might work in a coral propagation tank with mostly corals. It might not work in a reef tank. I don't know.

 

[Sallstrom]

Thanks Sallstrom. As usual you make good points & complete sense.

I enjoyed your perspective also.

Thank you both

 

[Scrubber_steve]

Did a search via Google and found some threads on other forums with the following claims:
-Small crustaceans might die if K goes over 600 ppm.
-Fish can start die at 600-700 ppm K.

I haven't looked up any more info on this, so this is not any evidens. Just someones notes on a forum.

I also found an in tank treatment example with potassium, killing snails, pods, and most things except corals. The aquarist was happy because the AEFW were gone

Anyway, might be a good thing to be careful when increasing the potassium level above NSW levels. It might work in a coral propagation tank with mostly corals. It might not work in a reef tank. I don't know.

Very glad i never went ahead with it now.
Appreciate the info thanx Sallstrom

 

[ksed]

Interesting to find out your results.

 

[Brew12]

Generally I'm a bit tired of all things people do to make their corals grow faster and faster. I'm happy our corals survive and grow at all, I don't really care if they could have a bit better colours or if they grow super fast
I aim more for keeping the species we acquiring long term and make sure our "stock" of this or that coral is big enough, and devided in different tanks, so if one tank crasch, we still got colonies of all species in that tank somewhere else, as a backup.

With a negative attitude like this you are going to miss the latest fad! ;Troll

Now that I know which systems of reefing work the best, I do them all.
I run high nutrients on Monday-Thursday, low nutrients Friday-Sunday.
On high nutrient days I run Alk at 12dkh, I run it at 7dkh on low nutrient days.
On Monday I do the Triton method, Tuesday I add filter socks. I run without a skimmer on Wednesday and micro-nano bubble on Thursday. Carbon dosing is for Fridays and biopellets over the weekend.
I do a large water change on Monday and continuous water change on Tuesday. Wednesday I do the Balling method, Randy's 2 part on Thursday and Kalk dosing on Friday. The calcium reactor handles the weekend.

Most importantly, Stability is key, so it's critical to maintain the proper rotation. ;Smuggrin

 

[Scrubber_steve]

With a negative attitude like this you are going to miss the latest fad! ;Troll

Now that I know which systems of reefing work the best, I do them all.
I run high nutrients on Monday-Thursday, low nutrients Friday-Sunday.
On high nutrient days I run Alk at 12dkh, I run it at 7dkh on low nutrient days.
On Monday I do the Triton method, Tuesday I add filter socks. I run without a skimmer on Wednesday and micro-nano bubble on Thursday. Carbon dosing is for Fridays and biopellets over the weekend.
I do a large water change on Monday and continuous water change on Tuesday. Wednesday I do the Balling method, Randy's 2 part on Thursday and Kalk dosing on Friday. The calcium reactor handles the weekend.

Most importantly, Stability is key, so it's critical to maintain the proper rotation. ;Smuggrin

Is the method consistency in inconsistency,,,, or inconsistency with consistency?

I know; a bit of both inconsistently consistent most of the time.