Swedish fish - behind the scenes rebuilding a public aquarium

Lasse

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As Stig indicate - the rules are not strict in Sweden. There is not any no or yes. Instead we have a bunch of rules that say that you should work constantly with safety and it is always one person responsible for the safety work. The work should be done of someone with enough knowledge and the one that is responsible is responsible for that the one doing the job have the knowledge he/she need. If nothing happens - the knowledge was good - if something happens - let us investigate :) . This is good in one way - the safety is rather high in Swedish workplaces - but consultants are not very keen to leave standards that have been established even if the situation is not completely the same. In this case - a public place (a pool) and in the other hand a workplace without public access (saltwater tank) But in this case - its better to go with the 36 V option IMO.

Sincerely Lasse
 
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John R

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Did some simple PAR testing today. Four different LED fixtures were tested at 120 cm distance in air. Two different Orphek 500W(wide and narrow lenses), one Pacific Sun 300W and one ProVolitans 480W. We just needed to get an idea on “penetration” ability. Still some way to go before we know what lights we will have over the large new tanks o_O
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Are you able to test spectrum under water? We have underwater PAR sensors but only above water spectrum sensors. Those lights look huge!
 
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Sallstrom

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Are you able to test spectrum under water? We have underwater PAR sensors but only above water spectrum sensors. Those lights look huge!
Not ourselves. But we have a light project together with the company Heliospectra, and they have a Jaz Spectrometer for water. So together we've done some tests for spectrum in our aquariums, but that was back in 2017 or 2018, before we got the large LED lights. Would have been great to do that again, but at the moment we don't have any deep tanks filled with water. So we might need to go to another aquarium to test.
 

PlasmaBoy

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Hi David , I was wondering if you have considered Plasma LEP for some of your lighting? I noticed you used to run some ceramic halides at one stage. My corals go nuts for plasma, though some don't like the amount of UV. It might be good for adding "quality light" in with the LED. Depth penetration could be an issue.
 

Brew12

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As Stig indicate - the rules are not strict in Sweden. There is not any no or yes. Instead we have a bunch of rules that say that you should work constantly with safety and it is always one person responsible for the safety work. The work should be done of someone with enough knowledge and the one that is responsible is responsible for that the one doing the job have the knowledge he/she need. If nothing happens - the knowledge was good - if something happens - let us investigate :) . This is good in one way - the safety is rather high in Swedish workplaces - but consultants are not very keen to leave standards that have been established even if the situation is not completely the same. In this case - a public place (a pool) and in the other hand a workplace without public access (saltwater tank) But in this case - its better to go with the 36 V option IMO.

Sincerely Lasse
This makes sense and explains why I can't find a formal electrical code for Sweden.

I am a little surprised that an acceptable solution can't be found for using 220V lighting above the tank. In my non-professional opinion (my qualifications in the field don't extend outside the US) it could be very safely done. I would require the lights to be powered off of RCD breakers. I would make the electrical cord on each light fixture short enough that it could not be plugged in and touch the water at the same time.
This would exceed any safety requirements in the USA but again, I'm not qualified to do electrical design in Sweden. If lighting becomes an issue it may be something to push for.
 
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Sallstrom

Sallstrom

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Hi David , I was wondering if you have considered Plasma LEP for some of your lighting? I noticed you used to run some ceramic halides at one stage. My corals go nuts for plasma, though some don't like the amount of UV. It might be good for adding "quality light" in with the LED. Depth penetration could be an issue.
For the large tanks, plasma is not an option I'm afraid. Due to 230V directly into the light fixture that will be over the aquarium surface. See the posts above and on previous sides.

For a future mangrove tank, or a "smaller" reef tank(which doesn't require diving), we might reuse our old plasma fixture. But I don't think we will buy new ones since we try to switch over to LED.
I love halides and those old types of lights, but I've accepted to switch over to LEDs. And I've tested enough LEDs to convince myself that LED could be used just as well, if done the right way :)
 

PlasmaBoy

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Yes led can get the job done, I haven't been able to succeed with pure led, but I'm guilty of forever playing with the spectrum etc.

You could run in on a shallow plasma lagoon style tank flanked with some blue leds :)

What a pain about the voltage over the tank, you could use mirrors, all be it expensive and painful to keep clean. You would lose 10-15% light too, but could choose the 220v lights and save money maybe ?
 

Stigigemla

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There are a lot of rules for household electrics in Sweden.
For industries we have the "Installation directive" how work shall be planned and done. That shall be the same for all europe. (But there are some national exceptions) And there is as Lasse says one person responsible at every place people work.
I am pretty certain the pumps are connected vith proper IP classification. (They can stand splash of water or even be dipped in water). For lighting with ordinary houshold connections its classified as dry environment only.
And if You change connections on the lights (or anything else with C€ marking the manufacturer responsibility is gone)
One notable diffence between houshold installation and industrial is that in industries the safety cord (yellow/green) shall be at least one dimension thicker than live and neutral.

We have 230 volt live and neutral in our housholds in Europe. I beleive You have 2x55v (live and live) in the US.
So we have 4 times higher voltage to ground and that is the reason wy we have higher safety demands.
 

Brew12

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We have 230 volt live and neutral in our housholds in Europe. I beleive You have 2x55v (live and live) in the US.
So we have 4 times higher voltage to ground and that is the reason wy we have higher safety demands.
In the US we have a center tapped 240V transformer to supply houses. This creates two separate 120V circuit. Each 120V outlet has 1 hot leg and the neutral which is tied to ground. Our 240V (used in clothes dryers, HVAC, and other larger loads) comes from using both 120V legs instead of 1 and the neutral.

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Sallstrom

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Yes led can get the job done, I haven't been able to succeed with pure led, but I'm guilty of forever playing with the spectrum etc.

You could run in on a shallow plasma lagoon style tank flanked with some blue leds :)

What a pain about the voltage over the tank, you could use mirrors, all be it expensive and painful to keep clean. You would lose 10-15% light too, but could choose the 220v lights and save money maybe ?
I hope we can do a light/PAR simulation soon, that will take into consideration the overlap of many light fixtures above the 400000L tank. We can’t do it ourselves, but will hopefully get some help doing it. I hope that will give us the idea of how many light fixtures we’ll need to get the coverage and intensity we want.

I’m pretty sure we will do okey in the end. But I’m not sure we’ll get it 100% right from the start. We’re used to improving things as we go along :)
 

John R

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Hi David , I was wondering if you have considered Plasma LEP for some of your lighting? I noticed you used to run some ceramic halides at one stage. My corals go nuts for plasma, though some don't like the amount of UV. It might be good for adding "quality light" in with the LED. Depth penetration could be an issue.
Plasma sounds interesting. Do you prefer this for penetration or does it supply something in a specific spectrum range that outdoes other methods?
 

PlasmaBoy

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I don't think its as good for depth, a good halide reflector will punch down further. No other light covers the spectrum like plasma, ceramic halide is the closest followed by halide I guess. So is it better , I don't know, im applying the simple blanket approach . Hoping to replicate nature I guess. Some corals don't like full spectrum, like your deeper corals etc.
 
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Sallstrom

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@Lasse is representing Sjöfartsmuseet Akvariet and the reefsquad at MACE 2019 :)
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Four great talks today, and a lot of nice people to meet.
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And finally Lasse and Hans Werner Balling together on a picture!
 

Brew12

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@Lasse is representing Sjöfartsmuseet Akvariet and the reefsquad at MACE 2019 :)
8530B54A-25E8-48EA-B67B-9A93CF47CB28.jpeg

Four great talks today, and a lot of nice people to meet.
2FB2CBEF-4655-417B-A09F-944C1DE95366.jpeg
And finally Lasse and Hans Werner Balling together on a picture!
Wow. Just wow. How much knowledge and experience is captured in that second picture? I could only dream of being able to talk to both of them at the same time!
 
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Sallstrom

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How's it going in there?

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Hi!
Everything is fine! Hopefully things will start to move with the rebuild this week. At least they will put up a fence around the building this week, and also the archaeologists will do another survey of the area which will be the new aquarium building. This time they will not put the grass and soil back :)
This will go on for three weeks. After that I hope everything will be sorted out and we will have a construction company taking over after the archeologists.

Inside things are also moving on. Not so fast at the moment, due to all the conferences this time a year.
But the plan is to sort the corals and get a better order in the temporary tanks. Probably sort out corals that is surplus. Seriatopora and Montipora species are growing a bit too good, so we hope we’ll find some public aquarium or university that needs corals.
The next step is get our coral species into a new website/register developed for public aquariums in Europe. So we need good pictures of the corals, live and just the skeleton, and a DNA profile. We’ve started this type of work before, but need to get better at all of the steps.

We will also build another research setup. It’ll be a 2000L system, designed for coral spawning. I hope it will up and running before the end of the year.
 

danielsalt

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In the US we have a center tapped 240V transformer to supply houses. This creates two separate 120V circuit. Each 120V outlet has 1 hot leg and the neutral which is tied to ground. Our 240V (used in clothes dryers, HVAC, and other larger loads) comes from using both 120V legs instead of 1 and the neutral.

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We have 3 lines 1 neutral and 1 ground. L to L makes 400V and is only used in "heavy" equipment and some radiators. L to N makes 230V and supplies every outlet to generally 10 amps/room(s) and lights.
The key thing the engineers apparently somewhat oddly got stuck on here is that they equalise the aquariums to public swimmingpools. Public being the keyword that makes everything 100 times more strict.
I dont know how to say it in english but these engineers choose both safetybelt airbag and a belt around the waist :)
 

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