But some technology breaks more often than others....
Switching Controllers from Apex to GHL
OP
OP
Ditto
Valuable Member
I have read on the GHL forums and other forums the PLM-LAN is not supported by the P4.
People need to rate what they need from their aquarium controller once they have this list then research and read, ask questions there are some great threads and great community of users to discuss the differences. What one finds not important may be important to another
People need to rate what they need from their aquarium controller once they have this list then research and read, ask questions there are some great threads and great community of users to discuss the differences. What one finds not important may be important to another
Was using the Apex Classic and I wanted to go with the 2016 version after waiting months for it and a lot of people questioning about the EB832 in Europe.
We got the Neptune kind of answer, that for them selling the Apex was like selling cars. Which sometime are sold with different motorization and options over the World...;Stop Nice joke...comparing bananas with apples...
This is why I went with the P4 with no regrets
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Same here. I do regret that the user interface on the P4 is not... great and positively hate the fact that I had to buy a windows ([emoji2961]) laptop to setup the dam thing though. I do recognize that improvements to the connect app and myghl have helped, but I still need that awful windows based laptop for updates.
The argument that we do not get the EB8 in Europe because we have different plugs is just laughable... ALL of continental Europe uses Schuko plugs (except for Switzerland) so I guess Neptune would cover 80% of the market with just one plug, or 100% with one plug and a simple adaptor for UK and another for Switzerland. Heck, we could even buy one ourselves as these things are very cheap!
I believe the real reason is that the US market already absorbs most of the production so any serious commitment to Europe would imply significant investment in additional production capabilities, customer support and workforce, something that they are not ready or willing to do just yet. I fully understand this argument. But this also means that Europe is not core for Neptune which does not bode well for customer service if your unit breaks down. Kind of a bad place to be given your whole system depends on these things to work. This in the end was the main reason for me to go with Profilux.
OP
OP
Ditto
Valuable Member
I forgot to update the Dec 1st comparison based on a few comments from the post above below is the updated information:
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Here are some discrepancies and things you left out I think:
First off, comparing just the base units is not really the best comparison. Comparison of standard packages sold is much more useful in my opinion. But this is your thread.
- Under power monitor failure port, the Apex too has special modes and programming that utilize information from this power-port as well as the Energy Bar 832. See documentation or forum posts for more information.
- Under "Expansion Ports Within Unit" it should be described that the GHL has two ports inside, after which an expansion box must be purchased for further expansion. The Apex, on the other hand, uses external modules connected via AquaBus to expand capabilities, AquaBus cable comes with each module purchased. This also enables them to be more dispersed and strategically placed within an aquarium set up. Also, no mention of additional (1Link and 24VDC) ports on Energy Bar 832.
- How about the most popular LED control options - The Apex can control either Radion or AI HD lights - the former requiring a module, the later none (all software and at no cost)
- Logging of manual test kits, maintenance, etc. and integration into graphing and analysis - GHL? Logging of things like Nitrates, Phosphates, etc. can then be graphed against other data such as temp, pH, ORP, etc. If this exists on GHL, on what platforms?
- Apex gives you access to raw probe monitoring data as well via its built-in web pages.
- For alerts, the Apex does text/email as well as native iOS alerts that will show up on all the user iOS devices, including the apple watch. Does GHL do iOS alerts?
- The Apex Fusion interface consistent on Apex on ALL platforms. No Mac support for native GHL software. No installed software required for Apex. This consistency means no matter what (or whose) device you pick up, you will see things always the same.
- Multiple Webcam integration on Apex Fusion dashboard on all platforms. Soon (in beta) Nest Cam support so no port forwarding necessary
- Multi-user support with five levels of role based security. So, for instance, you can give your neighbor access when you are away, and they can even get the alerts, but they do not have rights to control the tank or modify set up. Does this even exist on the GHL platform? On all access methods?
- Power monitoring is not just something to look at on the Apex. It analyzes use for a day and then tells you where you should set your alert levels. Advanced programming can be done as well using this data. Additionally, a power cost analysis graph interface enables you to dive in and understand how much each device on your aquarium (and overall) is costing you to run. This allows you to fine tune operation of different devices thereby saving money, and helping you be more green.
- Now, how about a comparison of the Energy Bar / Power Bars? How many outlets on each (I think 8 on Apex and 6 on GHL)? How many of those outlets are controllable (I think 8 on Apex and 5 on GHL)? What about additional features on them such as the Apex Energy Bar 832 having 5 more DC "outlets" via 1Link and 24VDC ports? Also, the Apex has a more budget-friendly power bar that does not have all the features of the EB832 but comes in 4 and 8 outlet configurations (for USA). And finally, what about a cost per "controlled" outlet of all these power bar options?
- What about software updates to the controller. How do these compare? In the Apex you simply click a button in Apex Fusion (on any access method, iPhone, Android, PC, MAC) and it updates from the cloud. Nothing to plug in. No PC to break out. What is the process on the GHL?
- And finally, these units come in standard configurations. In the USA the Apex comes in two models, a more budget model at $499.95 (ApexEL) that, like all Apex can be expanded later on, and then the full-featured Apex at $799.95. What do the comparable packages cost from GHL (obviously with differences noted above like 37.5% less controllable outlets).
First off, comparing just the base units is not really the best comparison. Comparison of standard packages sold is much more useful in my opinion. But this is your thread.
- Under power monitor failure port, the Apex too has special modes and programming that utilize information from this power-port as well as the Energy Bar 832. See documentation or forum posts for more information.
- Under "Expansion Ports Within Unit" it should be described that the GHL has two ports inside, after which an expansion box must be purchased for further expansion. The Apex, on the other hand, uses external modules connected via AquaBus to expand capabilities, AquaBus cable comes with each module purchased. This also enables them to be more dispersed and strategically placed within an aquarium set up. Also, no mention of additional (1Link and 24VDC) ports on Energy Bar 832.
- How about the most popular LED control options - The Apex can control either Radion or AI HD lights - the former requiring a module, the later none (all software and at no cost)
- Logging of manual test kits, maintenance, etc. and integration into graphing and analysis - GHL? Logging of things like Nitrates, Phosphates, etc. can then be graphed against other data such as temp, pH, ORP, etc. If this exists on GHL, on what platforms?
- Apex gives you access to raw probe monitoring data as well via its built-in web pages.
- For alerts, the Apex does text/email as well as native iOS alerts that will show up on all the user iOS devices, including the apple watch. Does GHL do iOS alerts?
- The Apex Fusion interface consistent on Apex on ALL platforms. No Mac support for native GHL software. No installed software required for Apex. This consistency means no matter what (or whose) device you pick up, you will see things always the same.
- Multiple Webcam integration on Apex Fusion dashboard on all platforms. Soon (in beta) Nest Cam support so no port forwarding necessary
- Multi-user support with five levels of role based security. So, for instance, you can give your neighbor access when you are away, and they can even get the alerts, but they do not have rights to control the tank or modify set up. Does this even exist on the GHL platform? On all access methods?
- Power monitoring is not just something to look at on the Apex. It analyzes use for a day and then tells you where you should set your alert levels. Advanced programming can be done as well using this data. Additionally, a power cost analysis graph interface enables you to dive in and understand how much each device on your aquarium (and overall) is costing you to run. This allows you to fine tune operation of different devices thereby saving money, and helping you be more green.
- Now, how about a comparison of the Energy Bar / Power Bars? How many outlets on each (I think 8 on Apex and 6 on GHL)? How many of those outlets are controllable (I think 8 on Apex and 5 on GHL)? What about additional features on them such as the Apex Energy Bar 832 having 5 more DC "outlets" via 1Link and 24VDC ports? Also, the Apex has a more budget-friendly power bar that does not have all the features of the EB832 but comes in 4 and 8 outlet configurations (for USA). And finally, what about a cost per "controlled" outlet of all these power bar options?
- What about software updates to the controller. How do these compare? In the Apex you simply click a button in Apex Fusion (on any access method, iPhone, Android, PC, MAC) and it updates from the cloud. Nothing to plug in. No PC to break out. What is the process on the GHL?
- And finally, these units come in standard configurations. In the USA the Apex comes in two models, a more budget model at $499.95 (ApexEL) that, like all Apex can be expanded later on, and then the full-featured Apex at $799.95. What do the comparable packages cost from GHL (obviously with differences noted above like 37.5% less controllable outlets).
tdhnry
Active Member
On your last point, GHL did just come out with the Profilux 4e at $420. It's a paired down verision of 4 similar to the ApexEL. I'll let some with more knowledge than me respond your other points.
That is just the base unit. The best way to compare is to compare the kits. But if you want to compare the base units, for the full Apex it's just $395.
OP
OP
Ditto
Valuable Member
Thank you @Terrance on posting,
I always enjoy when you post, because you do keep me in check, if I do overlook something on the base unit.
So lets go down all your points you make above, please remember everyone I am not a GHL employee just a avid user
- Under power monitor failure port, the Apex too has special modes and programming that utilize information from this power-port as well as the Energy Bar 832. See documentation or forum posts for more information.
I will update the chart above that Apex has Special modes also for power failures. I will configure my test unit to do a direct comparison just on this as I know users would be interested on what can GHL devices do on a power failure to that of a Apex.
- Under "Expansion Ports Within Unit" it should be described that the GHL has two ports inside, after which an expansion box must be purchased for further expansion. The Apex, on the other hand, uses external modules connected via AquaBus to expand capabilities, AquaBus cable comes with each module purchased. This also enables them to be more dispersed and strategically placed within an aquarium set up. Also, no mention of additional (1Link and 24VDC) ports on Energy Bar 832.
Interesting how you worded the reply with, that it must be purchased for further expansion? If it was worded, if you want to add another Salinity probe, ORP, PH or Temp and already had your P4 two internal slots filled you would need to purchase the expansion box I would have agreed. You can also extend the expansion box up to 100 feet away utilizing a standard Ethernet cable that I can purchased almost anywhere(It comes with a one in the box standard). You can also easily extend the cabling on any of the ports to meet the dispersion need, and strategic needs on the monitoring and control of the tank. GHL also has modules for example like the Vortech that do not take up slots within the unit but plug into the PAB interfaces.
- How about the most popular LED control options - The Apex can control either Radion or AI HD lights - the former requiring a module, the later none (all software and at no cost)
I made sure I added that on the last update, as it was a good catch that you reminded off (It was added in the bullets).
I been trying to keep the base unit to base unit, I can add a section called lighting and cooling and put all that information within those sections and spell out these type of add-on modules along with adding Mitras Lighting options also to that section.
- The Apex Fusion interface consistent on Apex on ALL platforms. No Mac support for native GHL software. No installed software required for Apex. This consistency means no matter what (or whose) device you pick up, you will see things always the same.
I have been 100% upfront on this, about that some options still require the use of the GHL software. That has not changed, even in the chart above. But what has been switched over is constant look in feel in the P4, GHL App, and Cloud Interface.
- Logging of manual test kits, maintenance, etc. and integration into graphing and analysis - GHL? Logging of things like Nitrates, Phosphates, etc. can then be graphed against other data such as temp, pH, ORP, etc. If this exists on GHL, on what platforms?
No this is specific to Apex.
- Apex gives you access to raw probe monitoring data as well via its built-in web pages.
GHL Can do this, both the web page and you can export probe data via through the desktop app and utilize it in any other software package. You can also compare probes in the web interface, app and so forth.
- For alerts, the Apex does text/email as well as native iOS alerts that will show up on all the user iOS devices, including the apple watch. Does GHL do iOS alerts?
No, we do not get a Native IOS alert. I will add this to the chart above thou for the Apex.
- Multi-user support with five levels of role based security. So, for instance, you can give your neighbor access when you are away, and they can even get the alerts, but they do not have rights to control the tank or modify set up. Does this even exist on the GHL platform? On all access methods?
Again all in the delivery? I can answer this a few ways.
So lets start off and say why yes the GHL Devices do have security levels, it all depends on how you you the user want to convey to the friend or family the information and then the access you want them to have. I am not going to say 5 levels, but more just spell out the ways.
1st Way- Receives just alerts no access to the Controller (Easy to do go to my notifications tab and add the user email address or text number)
2nd Way- Receives not just alerts but tank health checks (Easy to do go into the notification tab and add then to my general alerts)
3rd Way- Maybe I want them to log in see what my tank is doing but read mode set up an account for read only mode.
4th Way- Maybe I want them to log in and not just see but also edit, set up an account with read/write mode.
5th Way - Maybe I do not like them at all and want them to log in and have no access sure set it up with no access.
6th Way - I could also forgo all this and just set up a pin on the controller which would lock the device from being tampered with but allow a person to monitor the tank if they were also standing in front of it.
- Multiple Webcam integration on Apex Fusion dashboard on all platforms. Soon (in beta) Nest Cam support so no port forwarding necessary
I will give Apex Kudos on this one that your integration of larger web camera support is more then GHL. I do not use this feature, as I find is just as easy to log into my Nest App and see what going on.
- Power monitoring is not just something to look at on the Apex. It analyzes use for a day and then tells you where you should set your alert levels. Advanced programming can be done as well using this data. Additionally, a power cost analysis graph interface enables you to dive in and understand how much each device on your aquarium (and overall) is costing you to run. This allows you to fine tune operation of different devices thereby saving money, and helping you be more green.
As I stated above and in multiple ports your integration with your power-bar for the Apex 2016 is more then that with the powerbar of GHL, when it comes to logging the power utilization of an outlet, or programming an event to happen when for example amperage drops on the power bar.
- Now, how about a comparison of the Energy Bar / Power Bars? How many outlets on each (I think 8 on Apex and 6 on GHL)? How many of those outlets are controllable (I think 8 on Apex and 5 on GHL)? What about additional features on them such as the Apex Energy Bar 832 having 5 more DC "outlets" via 1Link and 24VDC ports? Also, the Apex has a more budget-friendly power bar that does not have all the features of the EB832 but comes in 4 and 8 outlet configurations (for USA). And finally, what about a cost per "controlled" outlet of all these power bar options?
Your point is well taken I can for sure put a chart together of the port layouts availability of the power bars world wide and in the USA and the different options. I will also include the GHL other powerbars, and make sure I included the 1link and 24dc ports.
- What about software updates to the controller. How do these compare? In the Apex you simply click a button in Apex Fusion (on any access method, iPhone, Android, PC, MAC) and it updates from the cloud. Nothing to plug in. No PC to break out. What is the process on the GHL?
Again, been 100% upfront on that the GHL software is still required for firmware upgrades, but not for web interface or wifi interface upgrades. I even been asked this numerous times, but no worries once it can be done across the web interface I will make sure everyone knows
- And finally, these units come in standard configurations. In the USA the Apex comes in two models, a more budget model at $499.95 (ApexEL) that, like all Apex can be expanded later on, and then the full-featured Apex at $799.95. What do the comparable packages cost from GHL (obviously with differences noted above like 37.5% less controllable outlets).
@tdhnry - did this for me. The 4e (essential) is being released and can be expanded like the ApexEL to meet the user needs.
I did edit the post above after this post adding the iOS alerts for the apple and the removal of the specific statement on maintenance mode also again thank you for pointing this out.
I always enjoy when you post, because you do keep me in check, if I do overlook something on the base unit.
So lets go down all your points you make above, please remember everyone I am not a GHL employee just a avid user
- Under power monitor failure port, the Apex too has special modes and programming that utilize information from this power-port as well as the Energy Bar 832. See documentation or forum posts for more information.
I will update the chart above that Apex has Special modes also for power failures. I will configure my test unit to do a direct comparison just on this as I know users would be interested on what can GHL devices do on a power failure to that of a Apex.
- Under "Expansion Ports Within Unit" it should be described that the GHL has two ports inside, after which an expansion box must be purchased for further expansion. The Apex, on the other hand, uses external modules connected via AquaBus to expand capabilities, AquaBus cable comes with each module purchased. This also enables them to be more dispersed and strategically placed within an aquarium set up. Also, no mention of additional (1Link and 24VDC) ports on Energy Bar 832.
Interesting how you worded the reply with, that it must be purchased for further expansion? If it was worded, if you want to add another Salinity probe, ORP, PH or Temp and already had your P4 two internal slots filled you would need to purchase the expansion box I would have agreed. You can also extend the expansion box up to 100 feet away utilizing a standard Ethernet cable that I can purchased almost anywhere(It comes with a one in the box standard). You can also easily extend the cabling on any of the ports to meet the dispersion need, and strategic needs on the monitoring and control of the tank. GHL also has modules for example like the Vortech that do not take up slots within the unit but plug into the PAB interfaces.
- How about the most popular LED control options - The Apex can control either Radion or AI HD lights - the former requiring a module, the later none (all software and at no cost)
I made sure I added that on the last update, as it was a good catch that you reminded off (It was added in the bullets).
I been trying to keep the base unit to base unit, I can add a section called lighting and cooling and put all that information within those sections and spell out these type of add-on modules along with adding Mitras Lighting options also to that section.
- The Apex Fusion interface consistent on Apex on ALL platforms. No Mac support for native GHL software. No installed software required for Apex. This consistency means no matter what (or whose) device you pick up, you will see things always the same.
I have been 100% upfront on this, about that some options still require the use of the GHL software. That has not changed, even in the chart above. But what has been switched over is constant look in feel in the P4, GHL App, and Cloud Interface.
- Logging of manual test kits, maintenance, etc. and integration into graphing and analysis - GHL? Logging of things like Nitrates, Phosphates, etc. can then be graphed against other data such as temp, pH, ORP, etc. If this exists on GHL, on what platforms?
No this is specific to Apex.
- Apex gives you access to raw probe monitoring data as well via its built-in web pages.
GHL Can do this, both the web page and you can export probe data via through the desktop app and utilize it in any other software package. You can also compare probes in the web interface, app and so forth.
- For alerts, the Apex does text/email as well as native iOS alerts that will show up on all the user iOS devices, including the apple watch. Does GHL do iOS alerts?
No, we do not get a Native IOS alert. I will add this to the chart above thou for the Apex.
- Multi-user support with five levels of role based security. So, for instance, you can give your neighbor access when you are away, and they can even get the alerts, but they do not have rights to control the tank or modify set up. Does this even exist on the GHL platform? On all access methods?
Again all in the delivery? I can answer this a few ways.
So lets start off and say why yes the GHL Devices do have security levels, it all depends on how you you the user want to convey to the friend or family the information and then the access you want them to have. I am not going to say 5 levels, but more just spell out the ways.
1st Way- Receives just alerts no access to the Controller (Easy to do go to my notifications tab and add the user email address or text number)
2nd Way- Receives not just alerts but tank health checks (Easy to do go into the notification tab and add then to my general alerts)
3rd Way- Maybe I want them to log in see what my tank is doing but read mode set up an account for read only mode.
4th Way- Maybe I want them to log in and not just see but also edit, set up an account with read/write mode.
5th Way - Maybe I do not like them at all and want them to log in and have no access sure set it up with no access.
6th Way - I could also forgo all this and just set up a pin on the controller which would lock the device from being tampered with but allow a person to monitor the tank if they were also standing in front of it.
- Multiple Webcam integration on Apex Fusion dashboard on all platforms. Soon (in beta) Nest Cam support so no port forwarding necessary
I will give Apex Kudos on this one that your integration of larger web camera support is more then GHL. I do not use this feature, as I find is just as easy to log into my Nest App and see what going on.
- Power monitoring is not just something to look at on the Apex. It analyzes use for a day and then tells you where you should set your alert levels. Advanced programming can be done as well using this data. Additionally, a power cost analysis graph interface enables you to dive in and understand how much each device on your aquarium (and overall) is costing you to run. This allows you to fine tune operation of different devices thereby saving money, and helping you be more green.
As I stated above and in multiple ports your integration with your power-bar for the Apex 2016 is more then that with the powerbar of GHL, when it comes to logging the power utilization of an outlet, or programming an event to happen when for example amperage drops on the power bar.
- Now, how about a comparison of the Energy Bar / Power Bars? How many outlets on each (I think 8 on Apex and 6 on GHL)? How many of those outlets are controllable (I think 8 on Apex and 5 on GHL)? What about additional features on them such as the Apex Energy Bar 832 having 5 more DC "outlets" via 1Link and 24VDC ports? Also, the Apex has a more budget-friendly power bar that does not have all the features of the EB832 but comes in 4 and 8 outlet configurations (for USA). And finally, what about a cost per "controlled" outlet of all these power bar options?
Your point is well taken I can for sure put a chart together of the port layouts availability of the power bars world wide and in the USA and the different options. I will also include the GHL other powerbars, and make sure I included the 1link and 24dc ports.
- What about software updates to the controller. How do these compare? In the Apex you simply click a button in Apex Fusion (on any access method, iPhone, Android, PC, MAC) and it updates from the cloud. Nothing to plug in. No PC to break out. What is the process on the GHL?
Again, been 100% upfront on that the GHL software is still required for firmware upgrades, but not for web interface or wifi interface upgrades. I even been asked this numerous times, but no worries once it can be done across the web interface I will make sure everyone knows
- And finally, these units come in standard configurations. In the USA the Apex comes in two models, a more budget model at $499.95 (ApexEL) that, like all Apex can be expanded later on, and then the full-featured Apex at $799.95. What do the comparable packages cost from GHL (obviously with differences noted above like 37.5% less controllable outlets).
@tdhnry - did this for me. The 4e (essential) is being released and can be expanded like the ApexEL to meet the user needs.
I did edit the post above after this post adding the iOS alerts for the apple and the removal of the specific statement on maintenance mode also again thank you for pointing this out.
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OP
OP
Ditto
Valuable Member
Does the EL sell just in a base unit?
Not as of yet. Demand has not been there because the price is just too darn good to get the ApexEL Base, an EB832, DJ pH probe, and temp probe. Once the upgraders all got the Apex Base units when they went on special on release, the regular Apex base unit has very little demand. It just doesn't make sense financially.
So if the goal of this thread is to offer some insight and data to help consumers make educated buying decisions, let's try and give details.
For instance, on the Energy Bars/Power Bars, the ones that come with the Apex, and that you can buy separately are $260 and have 8 controllable outlets with individual power monitoring with advanced features for that power monitoring. Additionally they have the extra 5 DC ports and it has a built in 100W DC power supply. The Profilux has the PB 5.1 with five controllable outlets with the ability to see the power usage but not do much with it. It has no DC power supply or controlled DC connections. This will set you back $220. So just on the controlled AC outlet cost, the Profilux is $44 per outlet. The Apex EB832 is $32.50. Now, possibly a better comparison might be to the Energy Bar 8 that is still available. That is $160 and has amp draw data but not in the per outlet manner. That comes in at a bargain $20 per controlled AC outlet.
Now, those making buying decisions might have been confused above with the need for a PC for the Profilux. You pretty much HAVE to have a PC or you need to buy emulation software and an operating system (>$99) for your Mac to make any software updates (bug fixes and feature enhancements) to the Profilux. For Mac users (or people who don't even own a computer these days - and just go iPad or mobile phone), this is a very big deal - not just the cost, but the hassle - you see we Mac users like things to be simple.
The manner in which you describe user control, while probably gets you somewhat there, is no where near the ease of use of assigning users in Apex Fusi0n and their roles.
Then there is the support of Radion lights. While you did mention the support for AI above, and the Profilux does have EcoTech Vortech support, I do not believe that there is any support for controlling Radion lights, correct?
Another question I have not yet seen the answer to, are the probes (pH and ORP) that come with Profilux kits double-junction probes?
I did see there is a new "Lite" version of the Profilux coming out. What will be the price when kitted up with a temp probe, pH probe, and 5.1 power bar? The ApexEL with all of that (including the 8-outlet EB832) is just $495. Those are the 1:1 comparisons that will be most helpful to customers.
I am happy you have created this thread. I know it likely ranks pretty high in search and has a ton of great info. Thanks for keeping it up.
For instance, on the Energy Bars/Power Bars, the ones that come with the Apex, and that you can buy separately are $260 and have 8 controllable outlets with individual power monitoring with advanced features for that power monitoring. Additionally they have the extra 5 DC ports and it has a built in 100W DC power supply. The Profilux has the PB 5.1 with five controllable outlets with the ability to see the power usage but not do much with it. It has no DC power supply or controlled DC connections. This will set you back $220. So just on the controlled AC outlet cost, the Profilux is $44 per outlet. The Apex EB832 is $32.50. Now, possibly a better comparison might be to the Energy Bar 8 that is still available. That is $160 and has amp draw data but not in the per outlet manner. That comes in at a bargain $20 per controlled AC outlet.
Now, those making buying decisions might have been confused above with the need for a PC for the Profilux. You pretty much HAVE to have a PC or you need to buy emulation software and an operating system (>$99) for your Mac to make any software updates (bug fixes and feature enhancements) to the Profilux. For Mac users (or people who don't even own a computer these days - and just go iPad or mobile phone), this is a very big deal - not just the cost, but the hassle - you see we Mac users like things to be simple.
The manner in which you describe user control, while probably gets you somewhat there, is no where near the ease of use of assigning users in Apex Fusi0n and their roles.
Then there is the support of Radion lights. While you did mention the support for AI above, and the Profilux does have EcoTech Vortech support, I do not believe that there is any support for controlling Radion lights, correct?
Another question I have not yet seen the answer to, are the probes (pH and ORP) that come with Profilux kits double-junction probes?
I did see there is a new "Lite" version of the Profilux coming out. What will be the price when kitted up with a temp probe, pH probe, and 5.1 power bar? The ApexEL with all of that (including the 8-outlet EB832) is just $495. Those are the 1:1 comparisons that will be most helpful to customers.
I am happy you have created this thread. I know it likely ranks pretty high in search and has a ton of great info. Thanks for keeping it up.
One more thing, if you decide to add salinity to the Profilux 4e down the road, it seems that it will cost you about $150 for the card (but it does give you an extra pH port too) as well as the conductivity probe for $175. On the Apex, the PM2 module is $85 and includes an extra temp port as well as six more switch inputs. The conductivity probe costs $125. So best I can tell it would cost $325 to add salinity monitoring to the 4e - It would cost $210. One would say you do get that pH port so you could argue you need to get the PM1 @$85 to make it fair but then you have two extra temp ports and total of 12 switch inputs and you are still at $295, $30 cheaper. I am sure some could make an argument either way.
In some ways it's hard to compare a BMW vs Chevy. You all are doing a great job though! Love this thread!
@Ditto I think it really helps people realize what these 2 platforms have to offer! Especially on the GHL side, as the Apex info is easier to find on the ole interwebs.
I doubt GHL would ever chime in on threads like this, as that's not really their style, but it's nice having Terence here to highlight what these controllers are actually capable of! You don't miss much Ditto, but with how advanced these platforms are, it's hard to remeber every little feature/nuance. Again Great thread and great job on this!
@Ditto I think it really helps people realize what these 2 platforms have to offer! Especially on the GHL side, as the Apex info is easier to find on the ole interwebs.
I doubt GHL would ever chime in on threads like this, as that's not really their style, but it's nice having Terence here to highlight what these controllers are actually capable of! You don't miss much Ditto, but with how advanced these platforms are, it's hard to remeber every little feature/nuance. Again Great thread and great job on this!
OP
OP
Ditto
Valuable Member
@Terrance - Thank you, for the kind words I do believe this is one of the most informative threads on comparing GHL and Apex.
No for the control of Radion lighting and I know this been asked been on the support forums. But we should also note they also carry there own lighting solutions for both saltwater and freshwater aquariums with Advanced feature and functionality.
I can not answer the double junction but will ask Based on the stability of readings on both my systems I would say a yes, but I am asking.
The Powerbar statements are interesting, because the most advance features of EB832 are not offered everywhere, but should not be overlooked as the software can do things like graph the power consumption, put a cost to that consumption and last the ability to alert or program the ports based on those results. I will add that to the comparison list.
If your doing just user control it three clicks sign in, add the account and add the permission you want them to have. (Read, Read/write, or none) pretty easy. But if you want them to just receive alert messages, or tank health messages that a few more clicks I will work on posting a comparison of the Apex fusion user control access the GHL user control in a future post.
For the P4e the salinity monitoring your correct. One would need to add either a fresh water card or a saltwater card (Not sure does Apex do Freshwater monitoring?). Install the card within the P4e unit, the card will have both a Salinity Port and a PH port port for $89.00. The Cost of the Platinum Probe is $181 so Approx $270 in total. For the ApexEl it would be a Pm2(Includes a temp port, and another 6 switch inputs) for $85, and the Salinity Probe for $124 for a total of $209 or $61 higher for the P4e essential.
As for the 1:1 sets pricing and options one could also argue that the P4e essential also comes with a display, 6 1-10v connections, and the ability to have leak detectors and flow monitoring connected with no additional external or internal modules needed. For the ApexEL we would need to add the FMM, display and VDM to have the same features.
We will need to wait for April to see the set prices
I am not ready to post any comparison chart yet until I buy them both and see them in action.
I will also work on charts for the PowerBars, Dosers, lighting, cooling options also.
@WWIII - Thank You!! I do believe that is what this thread is all about, allowing users to see that the two platforms have to offer and how I did my switch out in apex coding to GHL coding.
No for the control of Radion lighting and I know this been asked been on the support forums. But we should also note they also carry there own lighting solutions for both saltwater and freshwater aquariums with Advanced feature and functionality.
I can not answer the double junction but will ask
Based on the stability of readings on both my systems I would say a yes, but I am asking.The Powerbar statements are interesting, because the most advance features of EB832 are not offered everywhere, but should not be overlooked as the software can do things like graph the power consumption, put a cost to that consumption and last the ability to alert or program the ports based on those results. I will add that to the comparison list.
If your doing just user control it three clicks sign in, add the account and add the permission you want them to have. (Read, Read/write, or none) pretty easy. But if you want them to just receive alert messages, or tank health messages that a few more clicks
I will work on posting a comparison of the Apex fusion user control access the GHL user control in a future post.For the P4e the salinity monitoring your correct. One would need to add either a fresh water card or a saltwater card (Not sure does Apex do Freshwater monitoring?). Install the card within the P4e unit, the card will have both a Salinity Port and a PH port port for $89.00. The Cost of the Platinum Probe is $181 so Approx $270 in total. For the ApexEl it would be a Pm2(Includes a temp port, and another 6 switch inputs) for $85, and the Salinity Probe for $124 for a total of $209 or $61 higher for the P4e essential.
As for the 1:1 sets pricing and options one could also argue that the P4e essential also comes with a display, 6 1-10v connections, and the ability to have leak detectors and flow monitoring connected with no additional external or internal modules needed. For the ApexEL we would need to add the FMM, display and VDM to have the same features.
We will need to wait for April to see the set prices
I am not ready to post any comparison chart yet until I buy them both and see them in action.
I will also work on charts for the PowerBars, Dosers, lighting, cooling options also.
@WWIII - Thank You!! I do believe that is what this thread is all about, allowing users to see that the two platforms have to offer and how I did my switch out in apex coding to GHL coding.
I must have missed this one response. I think what might be missed by others is the practical implications here. A common occurrence for aquarists is that you have a second tank (often something like a frag or quarantine tank) in another room or some distance from the water of the primary tank. With the Apex, you can use up to a 200 foot aquabus cable (available from us or, in longer lengths, third parties) to add monitoring and control to that tank simply by adding the modules. In the most basic case of monitoring, you can add the PM1 module and get pH and temp monitoring and six switch inputs for $85 (plus the probes), you could add four controlled outlets to that QT tank via the EB4 for $120.
<<The following edited after more info brought to my attention>>
What does it cost to do that with the Profilux? Well you need to buy the expansion box at $330, right? And the 4-outlet powerbar at $120 for a total cost of $450 (nearly the cost of an entire ApexEL). And you do get some additional ports - so that might be beneficial - But if you did not need those, it is just an added expense for unwanted stuff.
And now what if you want to add monitoring and control to your make-water station out in the garage?
In short, $330 for a Profilux expansion box as opposed to just buying the expansion module itself for the Apex ecosystem -- is the real difference - and one I think not considered much by the person evaluating these products.
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The GHL expansion box provides quite a bit of value. I was going to add another ph/temp card and conductivity card to my profilux to monitor my 2nd system. I run a calcium reactor on that system, so needed 2 ph ports and am using the one on my profilux for my main display. Anyways, adding up the 2 cards I needed, it just made more sense to buy the expansion box since it came with all of those I needed, plus level controls, plus 0-10v. If I had Apex I would probably just buy another Apex for a 2nd system. Here's what the GHL expansion box has when you order it for $330...
Expansion Box 2 Features:
Just as a seperate point of view on this particular scenario. Not intending to debate what Terence and Ditto are!
Expansion Box 2 Features:
- 4 x 1-10V-interfaces
- 2 x Universal ports for pH or redox probes (adjustable)
- 1 x Universal port for conductivity freshwater or seawater (adjustable)
- 1 x Port for digital temperature sensor
- 1 x Mitras Lightbar interface
- 2 x ProfiLux Aquatic Bus
- 2 x Level sensor input
- 4 x Additional expansion slots for our expansion cards.
Just as a seperate point of view on this particular scenario. Not intending to debate what Terence and Ditto are!
Expansion Box 2 Features:
- 4 x 1-10V-interfaces
- 2 x Universal ports for pH or redox probes (adjustable)
- 1 x Universal port for conductivity freshwater or seawater (adjustable)
- 1 x Port for digital temperature sensor
- 1 x Mitras Lightbar interface
- 2 x ProfiLux Aquatic Bus
- 2 x Level sensor input
- 4 x Additional expansion slots for our expansion cards.
Just as a seperate point of view on this particular scenario. Not intending to debate what Terence and Ditto are!
Great info. I edited my last post to take this all into consideration.
OP
OP
Ditto
Valuable Member
I say 100 Feet because of the limitations of Ethernet, I have no idea if I could go beyond that I did 100 feet without any issues. But then we also need to factor the cost of Aquabus cabling to that of a PAB cable at those distances, for example a Aqaubus cable at 30 Feet is $29.95, A 50 Feet PAB Cable $6, or Shielded Cable for $29. If a user is inclined you can make your own PAB cables also, with a RJ45 Tool and a box of Cat 6 or Cat 5 Cabling, just something else users should be evaluating also.
Are we just talking expanding PH and monitoring the remote tank? Yes we could go overboard and place a Expansion box at the other tank, a bit of a overkill, or we could install a PH/Temp card into the existing P4, extend those cables, which come in all different lengths and a PAB cable for the power bar to the other tank($129 for the Card). I think it all depends on what you are looking to achieve on the other tank may it be QT or not and the options. If I was going to fully monitor the tank and already have a P4, then yes I could place a Expansion box there which gives me PH, Salinity, ORP and Temp ports, plus the 4 1-10V interfaces, plus if I want to do float switches, and flow monitors or leak detectors all I have to do is plug them into the expansion box . Or now that the Profilux 4e is here could place one of those there also (Waiting on set prices). It really all depends on the configuration one is looking for and the features and functionality one is asking for. Something to also take into account is more external modules in series means a potential for more failures also. But one could argue, replacing one module or wiring around while it being fixed, is an acceptable level of risk compare to if the expansion box fails. Then we would need to look a the hardware failure rates of an Expansion Box, compared to having the 5 modules possibly in series(Or split apart into two serial series), The Two PM1(PH/ORP/Temp(Is this analog or Digital), PM2,(salinity), VDM(4 1-10V Connections), and 1 FMM(Flow and leak) connected together(Comparable ports and functionality of the Expansion box), this still does not also include the visual blinking Red/Yellow/Green/White of the Expansion box if something is wrong.
As for the AWC, quite a few options.
We could use a (Master)GHL Maxi Doser as a stand alone or the (Master)GHL Doser 2, depends on how much water we are changing per day, with it own float switches tied to it, with it own Temp probe, and notifications. So a controller is not needed.. (I have one running now almost a year, without any issues drawing 2.5 gallons out of the tank a day. It monitors the amount of water, and alerts me if an issue, and can be programmed via the App, Web Interface, Cloud via Wifi, and also has the USB connection also. I believe the DOS requires the Apex to operate.
We could also go with the (Slave)GHL Maxi doser or (Slave)Doser 2.1 connected to the P4, place it next to the tank, have the lines draw down to the mixing station(My setup on Tank 2), or we could place the either doser at the mixing station(I did this but when I did my new build I brought it upstairs) and extend the connections down into the basement and then use the float switches connected to the P4 for high, low water changes and emergency over the top switch. We could also do this with a DOS, connected to the Apex also and add float switches via the breakout box and achieve the same results for the AWC. I am not sure though does the DOS monitor virtual containers, can you set the liquid size within the Apex and have the DOS alert you based on the draw of the pump and then alert you when it gets low?
With the Maxi doing the AWC I usually reverse the Pumps afterwards to clean any water out of them also, which the DOS can do through profiles, but within the GHL it is a checkbox on the time interval.
But then we do not need to use the GHL Maxi or Doser 2.1. We could also just buy two pumps, use two outlets, and apply the same logic. (if the pumps have the draw). This would require the use of a powerbar and two ports, along with the float switches or optical switches. We would loose the ability to monitor how much water has been removed, or how much fresh saltwater has been placed in but it would work. We could do the same in Apex, a breakout box, two float switches, tied to 2 outlets and use what ever two pumps the user prefers to use. Quite a few options, all depends again what the user is trying to achieve the distance the water needs to travel, how much needs to to replaced at a time.
In short, you have options before you actually place that expansion box along with AWC, it all depends on what the user is looking for, and is not limited to just placing an expansion box.
Edited it to fix a few spelling mistakes
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