Symbiodinium. Got any treatment ideas?
- Thread starter ScottB
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Once I get through an iich outbreak, I am going to add a one spot foxface to the DT. So far, it is the only pattern I can find.
IF foxface > 0, THEN chrysopytes = 0
The water is shared water.
IF foxface > 0, THEN chrysopytes = 0
The water is shared water.
Hey @SMSREEF I saw you on a Chrysophyte thread with a picture that perfectly matches something I am dealing with.
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Can you share your resolution technique? This has been going on for quite a while for me. I don't know whether it is cause or effect, but it is replacing all of my very old coralline.
I have pics of the stuff in the initial posts. Thanks.
Chrysophytes?! Help me cure it?
This is what my chrysophyte looked like in tank, when I sucked it out, and under the microscope. @taricha helped me ID this stuff. what I tried: -try and keep NO3@10 and [email protected], but new tank was using up nutrients so needed to dose often. -suctioning it out daily for weeks: it grew back by...
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Can you share your resolution technique? This has been going on for quite a while for me. I don't know whether it is cause or effect, but it is replacing all of my very old coralline.
I have pics of the stuff in the initial posts. Thanks.
I don't mean to post something that might add to any confusion or misinformation, but, I think I've been having some of these same troubles...
I have a RS 250 Reefer that is about 18 months old that started with dry rock and a bare bottom. Mostly SPS with a few LPS and a half dozen fish. Over the past 18 months I've had all sorts of startup troubles with algae (turf, green hair, bubble, Bryopsis, ...).
Moths ago I started getting this stringy algae growing on my rocks. It soon was almost everywhere... I was pretty easy to suck it up with a turkey baster but it just seemed to keep growing. Was pretty sure it was Dinos so I installed an 18w UV in/out of my DT and it might have helped a little bit but the stuff wasn't going away. Started adding MicroBacter7 and SpongeExcel to outcompete them and again had limited success and was still sucking them out almost every day.
As I read more about the bacterial limitations of dry rock, and becoming very frustrated, I went to my local coral shop and picked up about 10 Lbs of their live rock. In about a week I started to see a noticeable improvement and after a few weeks it was essentially gone
Many weeks later I started to see it again in a few specific spots. Again started sucking it up but it wasn't going away. All this time my water parameters were both good and pretty stable. I was getting encrusting and growth on my coral and, as best as I could figure, nothing had changed in my tank.
Most recent re-appearance...
Recently, I had some degradation in the silicone seam of my tank. After sharing pictures with Red Sea they sent me a new display tank. After the 36 hours drama of swapping out the two tanks, I put most of the original rocks back in. I saw a few spots where this stringy algae was again waving hello at me, but, this time after sucking it out - it has stayed gone for the past week!
I don't think it is a function of water parameters. The only appreciable change for me was in increase in Phosphate after the tank replacement (from ~.06 to ~.13) - Alk, Salinity, Mag, Nitrate, temp, PH, etc. all were pretty stable during and after the move. I also dont' think it was the 36 hours without lights because I've tried lights out for 2 day from my earlier trouble with no success.
But something disrupted some balance, I'm now thinking bacterial, that has suppressed this stuff's growth this time around...
Not certain if my story is going to be helpful to you, but, if this is the same trouble you're facing I wanted to share my thoughts.
Good luck to us all...
I have a RS 250 Reefer that is about 18 months old that started with dry rock and a bare bottom. Mostly SPS with a few LPS and a half dozen fish. Over the past 18 months I've had all sorts of startup troubles with algae (turf, green hair, bubble, Bryopsis, ...).
Moths ago I started getting this stringy algae growing on my rocks. It soon was almost everywhere... I was pretty easy to suck it up with a turkey baster but it just seemed to keep growing. Was pretty sure it was Dinos so I installed an 18w UV in/out of my DT and it might have helped a little bit but the stuff wasn't going away. Started adding MicroBacter7 and SpongeExcel to outcompete them and again had limited success and was still sucking them out almost every day.
As I read more about the bacterial limitations of dry rock, and becoming very frustrated, I went to my local coral shop and picked up about 10 Lbs of their live rock. In about a week I started to see a noticeable improvement and after a few weeks it was essentially gone
Many weeks later I started to see it again in a few specific spots. Again started sucking it up but it wasn't going away. All this time my water parameters were both good and pretty stable. I was getting encrusting and growth on my coral and, as best as I could figure, nothing had changed in my tank.
Most recent re-appearance...
Recently, I had some degradation in the silicone seam of my tank. After sharing pictures with Red Sea they sent me a new display tank. After the 36 hours drama of swapping out the two tanks, I put most of the original rocks back in. I saw a few spots where this stringy algae was again waving hello at me, but, this time after sucking it out - it has stayed gone for the past week!
I don't think it is a function of water parameters. The only appreciable change for me was in increase in Phosphate after the tank replacement (from ~.06 to ~.13) - Alk, Salinity, Mag, Nitrate, temp, PH, etc. all were pretty stable during and after the move. I also dont' think it was the 36 hours without lights because I've tried lights out for 2 day from my earlier trouble with no success.
But something disrupted some balance, I'm now thinking bacterial, that has suppressed this stuff's growth this time around...
Not certain if my story is going to be helpful to you, but, if this is the same trouble you're facing I wanted to share my thoughts.
Good luck to us all...
Thanks for sharing and yeah, this looks very familiar to me. Glad you have some resolution and hope it holds for you.I don't mean to post something that might add to any confusion or misinformation, but, I think I've been having some of these same troubles...
I have a RS 250 Reefer that is about 18 months old that started with dry rock and a bare bottom. Mostly SPS with a few LPS and a half dozen fish. Over the past 18 months I've had all sorts of startup troubles with algae (turf, green hair, bubble, Bryopsis, ...).
Moths ago I started getting this stringy algae growing on my rocks. It soon was almost everywhere... I was pretty easy to suck it up with a turkey baster but it just seemed to keep growing. Was pretty sure it was Dinos so I installed an 18w UV in/out of my DT and it might have helped a little bit but the stuff wasn't going away. Started adding MicroBacter7 and SpongeExcel to outcompete them and again had limited success and was still sucking them out almost every day.
As I read more about the bacterial limitations of dry rock, and becoming very frustrated, I went to my local coral shop and picked up about 10 Lbs of their live rock. In about a week I started to see a noticeable improvement and after a few weeks it was essentially gone
Many weeks later I started to see it again in a few specific spots. Again started sucking it up but it wasn't going away. All this time my water parameters were both good and pretty stable. I was getting encrusting and growth on my coral and, as best as I could figure, nothing had changed in my tank.
Most recent re-appearance...
Recently, I had some degradation in the silicone seam of my tank. After sharing pictures with Red Sea they sent me a new display tank. After the 36 hours drama of swapping out the two tanks, I put most of the original rocks back in. I saw a few spots where this stringy algae was again waving hello at me, but, this time after sucking it out - it has stayed gone for the past week!
I don't think it is a function of water parameters. The only appreciable change for me was in increase in Phosphate after the tank replacement (from ~.06 to ~.13) - Alk, Salinity, Mag, Nitrate, temp, PH, etc. all were pretty stable during and after the move. I also dont' think it was the 36 hours without lights because I've tried lights out for 2 day from my earlier trouble with no success.
But something disrupted some balance, I'm now thinking bacterial, that has suppressed this stuff's growth this time around...
Not certain if my story is going to be helpful to you, but, if this is the same trouble you're facing I wanted to share my thoughts.
Good luck to us all...
I really thought this would just pass but it hasn't. Not worse, not better over the last several months. I had been allowing my PO4 to creep up a bit over time, so maybe we share some commonality there. I am gradually bringing it back down under .1 with lanthanum chloride.
I did also buy some live gulf rock but had to get some suspected bryopsis out of it (with Fluc). It is pretty much ready to go just need some time to rip out one of my existing rock stacks and replace. There is a fair amount of SPS I will need to chop through.
Again, thanks for sharing; I am surprised this isn't more common.
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Well I have continued with my "steady as she goes" strategy and it is getting me nowhere. I am a little hampered in how much stuff I can move around right now given a minor iich outbreak in the display. Which brings me to another observation.
I believe that this stuff has some toxic properties for fish at least. On two different occasions, life got in the way of my regular basting routine and the stuff really got going. Once in basement LPS frag and once on my display. I got out my Maxjet 1200 and blasted ALL of the stuff into the water column while running a polishing canister for about an hour to clear up the water.
I came back to dead fish. Not all the fish died but 4 died the first time and 1 just this past Saturday morning.
I am guessing the stress of this toxin is what kicked off the ich outbreak in the display. I have not had a fish DISPLAY ich since right after startup on this system. Even my Powder Blue never had it before this.
Still no real progress to report against symbio/chrysophyte. Still a little bit of GHA in a few pockets.
I believe that this stuff has some toxic properties for fish at least. On two different occasions, life got in the way of my regular basting routine and the stuff really got going. Once in basement LPS frag and once on my display. I got out my Maxjet 1200 and blasted ALL of the stuff into the water column while running a polishing canister for about an hour to clear up the water.
I came back to dead fish. Not all the fish died but 4 died the first time and 1 just this past Saturday morning.
I am guessing the stress of this toxin is what kicked off the ich outbreak in the display. I have not had a fish DISPLAY ich since right after startup on this system. Even my Powder Blue never had it before this.
Still no real progress to report against symbio/chrysophyte. Still a little bit of GHA in a few pockets.
Hi, Any updates? I've been fighting Chrysos for over two months myself. Vibrant, dosing PO4 and NO3, basting, GFO, etc. Same things mentioned here. I even think the stuff killed off my Trochus snails!
I thought I had it under control this last week, after a 3 day blackout, running GFO, and then taking every rock out and scrubbing with a toothbrush in a bucket of RODI. After a week it started back in, but perhaps at a slower rate.
I thought I had it under control this last week, after a 3 day blackout, running GFO, and then taking every rock out and scrubbing with a toothbrush in a bucket of RODI. After a week it started back in, but perhaps at a slower rate.
The chrysophytes in my display have abated somewhat. It MAY have something to do with Vibrant. I don't generally encourage or use Vibrant, but this chryso stuff gets really annoying after a while. It MAY also have to do with a general reduction in nutrients over the last two months. I was running 15/.15 NO3/PO4 and I now keep more like 5/.05.
I should note that I had another toxicity event when roughly removing this stuff -- this time in the frag system. It kills very quick -- like within 10 minutes. I would encourage regular and careful removal WHILE RUNNING CARBON. I lost five large, healthy fish.
Well my chrysophytes/symbodinium are dead and gone. Like many of us, I was pulling a couple of different levers at the same time.
a) Vibrant at the minimum weekly level.
b) Brought PO4 down from .12-.17 closer to .07 with LCl
c) Added foxface and a couple of tangs (this was a little later after the shift was under way already)
The chrysophytes were replaced with some GHA, but the fish and CUC got that under control.
Again, I am a very cautious user of Vibrant and would suggest the same conservative approach in using it with high value acropora. But I do feel it was a primary contributor.
bishoptf
Valuable Member
I have been wrestling with the same kind of stuff since doing a chemi-clean treatment, kicking myself on that one. I have seen Vibrant help but I have a fuge with Chaeto and thinking it will nuke it. @ScottB what are you using for nutrient export, and if using some macro algae did Vibrant kill it.
What I have started seeing is that some of my coralline rock is showing white again and think this stuff is to blame, really wish we could figure out the bacteria level stuff so we would know what works and what doesn't, way to many variables right now.
Thanks
My display system didn't have a a refugium, just socks, water changes, skimmer and occasional Lanthanum to pull down PO4. I feed heavy several times a day and keep nitrates around 1 and PO4 .5 to .15 between dosing (carefully) Lanthanum.
And yes, that stuff chewed up ALL of my coralline. But it bounced back very quickly.
Given that we have discovered that Vibrant actually contains a polyquaternary ammonia (algaecide) yes, it will likely damage your macro. You have two decent options though. I would just put it in a bucket with an airstone and just normal ambient light. It will stay alive a long time. Or, you could leave it in, but turn off the light. The algaecide only works during active photosynthesis.
I am a firm believer in heavy in / heavy out. I just have way less issues when I keep to that method. That said, not every tank can support the kind of tang gang I do. Every few years one or two will outgrow the tank so I trade them in to my LFS for juveniles.
after getting a cheap microscope I found that my Chrysos evolved to dinos. I used Elegant Coral method and things are much better. Watching closely just in case I need to do another treatment.
Bubbling is amazing when it comes to binding and allowing for removal of large mats via siphon
Bubbling is amazing when it comes to binding and allowing for removal of large mats via siphon
Interesting. I did test H2O2 against this stuff (in a beaker) versus MB7 and a control. I could not get any results over a 2 week test period. But I did not bubble it; I can see how that would help with manual removal.
That is just how this system has always run. I do run a large and effective skimmer on it. My larger frag system runs higher NO3.
I think the only "unusual" feature of my DT is the 3 large Marine Pure blocks in the sump.
bishoptf
Valuable Member
Thanks, I'm not married to chaeto its makes a mess and for me its hit or miss growing wise. My nitrates have never been an issue and thinking maybe of running awhile with out it and see what it does, everything you read about marinepure is the elevated aluminum but there may be some alternatives like siporax from sera, not as much information as marine pure but some. Looks like they claim it will also reduce nitrates, I may just go this route and pitch the chaeto, may have an easier time getting things dialed in.
Nitrate breakdown with sera siporax: What kind of filter is suitable? | FAQ | Service | sera
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Yeah I have seen all those threads. My blocks are pretty old by now and my ICP tests are all fine. Maybe they did leach back then, maybe not. Never had any issues. A lot of people also report that they crumble too and mine are in good shape years later. I suppose over the years they could have switched manufacturers several times, who knows.Thanks, I'm not married to chaeto its makes a mess and for me its hit or miss growing wise. My nitrates have never been an issue and thinking maybe of running awhile with out it and see what it does, everything you read about marinepure is the elevated aluminum but there may be some alternatives like siporax from sera, not as much information as marine pure but some. Looks like they claim it will also reduce nitrates, I may just go this route and pitch the chaeto, may have an easier time getting things dialed in.
Nitrate breakdown with sera siporax: What kind of filter is suitable? | FAQ | Service | sera
Hochwertige Produkte für Aquaristik, Terraristik & Gartenteich: ✔Fischfutter ✔Aquarienzubehör ✔Gartenteichzubehör ✔Terrarien. ▶ Jetzt entdecken!www.sera.de
bishoptf
Valuable Member
Really appreciate you providing all the information, are you still dosing Vibrant weekly? I've started to think that I may do the same b ut wish I could find something else besides Vibrant that would be easier on the corals etc. I've been dosing it in my QT coral frag tank and it looks good and my SPS frags seem to be ok but wish I could figure out what is missing from the equation and not have to dose Vibrant weekly.
I no longer dose Vibrant. It was great for removing the chrysophytes and most of the GHA that replaced it, but I noticed an odd algae kill pattern with it. That observation lead to a very interesting & slightly provocative thread I will link for you below. The short story is that Vibrant contains a known algaecide (polyquaternary ammonia) and not fluconazole.
Vibrant works, but it carries risks. I believe it can accumulate, so I am very careful with it. It is not simply a bacteria blend like advertised. But it did get things under control and once I got my tang gang assembled my GHA has remained invisible.
My speculation: Vibrant has some fluconazole in it...
***** EDIT 5-December-2021***** My original speculation was inaccurate. However, it did prompt another hobbyist to run some tests similar to those published in this paper. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33191523/ "This study investigates the utility of bromophenol blue (BPB) as a safe, rapid...
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bishoptf
Valuable Member
Hey @ScottB was hoping you could take a look at this and tell me what you think. I have been thinking that this is diatoms all along but starting to think it's something different. It coats things and will build up over time, brushes off and takes days to start back. If I dose vibrant it goes after it but always returns. I'm just trying to figure out what it is and what to do differently that can kick it to the curb but not sure what it really is. I know diatoms are fed by silica but I've had my RODI tested and its zero and have no sand (BB). Parameters are not to crazy, nitrates are 9 and phosphate are .03, I have it in both my frag tank and DT. It will irritate SPS that are having issues (see the pic), so I am not sure what it is or what I can do to move past this stuff.
Let me know if you have any thoughts...thanks.
Let me know if you have any thoughts...thanks.
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