Tang showing ich, new QT setup Red Sea 250

[Kayanarka]

I noticed 2 small specs on a small tang, so I pulled the fish, did a fresh water dip, and got her into a ten gallon qt with some copper treatment. Today is her second day in the small med tank and she seems to be in good shape with no spots.

Today I picked up a larger QT tank and a fish trap, and was able to trap another tang. He had a fairly bad break out of very light specs all over. He got the fresh water dip and went into some fresh ro/di salt water with copper dose to match the 10 gallon, and I used that to do a water change on the 10 gallon. He seems to be happy right now. I have to still catch his best friend, a powder tang. This is the first time these two fish have been apart in years

Some things I worry about:

Which fish can not handle copper, gobies? Wrasse? clowns? Hawk fish? Dragonet?

What will my dragonet eat in QT tank.

How to catch smaller gobies.

Which fish should stay in 10 gallon qt tank, maybe do a Salinity change treatment or ttm using 5 gallon buckets instead of copper?

I plan to use the large bio brick from my display sump to seed bacteria in new tank, as well as another bottle of turbo start.

I've been reading about this ich quite a bit now, but plan to review the pinned quarantine thread tonight or early tomorrow (almost 2 am here)

oh should I run my ro/di straight to tank or pre mix all salt water in buckets?

This is the new qt tank red sea 250:

And filled for leak checks:

 

[fishguy242]

hi, i prefer premixing salt, as far as ick, please try to post picsof fish, qt copper levels,what med you are using.
experts will be along shortly...
@Jay Hemdal @vetteguy53081 ?? TIA.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Can be ice or can be lympho
Need clear pics under white lights.
If ice - copper power best choice along with copper test kit(no API kit)

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I noticed 2 small specs on a small tang, so I pulled the fish, did a fresh water dip, and got her into a ten gallon qt with some copper treatment. Today is her second day in the small med tank and she seems to be in good shape with no spots.

Today I picked up a larger QT tank and a fish trap, and was able to trap another tang. He had a fairly bad break out of very light specs all over. He got the fresh water dip and went into some fresh ro/di salt water with copper dose to match the 10 gallon, and I used that to do a water change on the 10 gallon. He seems to be happy right now. I have to still catch his best friend, a powder tang. This is the first time these two fish have been apart in years

Some things I worry about:

Which fish can not handle copper, gobies? Wrasse? clowns? Hawk fish? Dragonet?

What will my dragonet eat in QT tank.

How to catch smaller gobies.

Which fish should stay in 10 gallon qt tank, maybe do a Salinity change treatment or ttm using 5 gallon buckets instead of copper?

I plan to use the large bio brick from my display sump to seed bacteria in new tank, as well as another bottle of turbo start.

I've been reading about this ich quite a bit now, but plan to review the pinned quarantine thread tonight or early tomorrow (almost 2 am here)

oh should I run my ro/di straight to tank or pre mix all salt water in buckets?

This is the new qt tank red sea 250:

And filled for leak checks:

What copper medication do you have available and what test kit do you have access to?
Dragonets can handle copper fine, but as you mentioned, they do NOT do well in bare quarantine tanks with little for them to eat.
With new quarantine systems, you will need to monitor the ammonia levels and keep them under 0.25 ppm.
As mentioned, can you post pictures of the fish taken under white light?
Always mix new water in clean buckets and aerate the water for an hour or so before using it.

Jay

 

[Kayanarka]

Dory gave me some great shots this morning.

I am using Coppersafe in the 10 gallon. I have a bottle of copper power I am saving for the 65 gallon system. I need to pick up another bottle of copper power for water changes. I am using the Hanna checker to check copper levels. I was right at 2.0ppm last night in the 10 gallon. I will not have the larger qt tank ready until this weekend, so I was hoping to get the most infected fish started in the 10 gal qt right away, then start my countdown once everything is in the big tank. Not looking forward to catching all the gobies.

I feel like I am going to need better amonia test kit.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Dory gave me some great shots this morning.

I am using Coppersafe in the 10 gallon. I have a bottle of copper power I am saving for the 65 gallon system. I need to pick up another bottle of copper power for water changes. I am using the Hanna checker to check copper levels. I was right at 2.0ppm last night in the 10 gallon. I will not have the larger qt tank ready until this weekend, so I was hoping to get the most infected fish started in the 10 gal qt right away, then start my countdown once everything is in the big tank. Not looking forward to catching all the gobies.

I feel like I am going to need better amonia test kit.

Some of those spots are too large to be ich. Hepatus tangs sometimes develop what I term "idiopathic mucus plugs" - which just means "big white spots caused by what, I don't know" (grin).

Before you go and start treating, you might want to confirm that it is indeed ich. There is some risk in delaying treatment, but you might want to wait until tomorrow - look at the fish compared to these pictures. If the spots are in the same location, wait another day. If they are still in the same location, it isn't ich. Ich spots will come and go over 24 to 48 hours, the numbers will climb and drop over time, but gradually become more numerous.

Jay

 

[Kayanarka]

Some of those spots are too large to be ich. Hepatus tangs sometimes develop what I term "idiopathic mucus plugs" - which just means "big white spots caused by what, I don't know" (grin).

Before you go and start treating, you might want to confirm that it is indeed ich. There is some risk in delaying treatment, but you might want to wait until tomorrow - look at the fish compared to these pictures. If the spots are in the same location, wait another day. If they are still in the same location, it isn't ich. Ich spots will come and go over 24 to 48 hours, the numbers will climb and drop over time, but gradually become more numerous.

Jay

Thank you, they have not been all in the same spot. The larger blue tank and the powder tang both started showing spots the day after I first discovered it on the Hippo. Is it possible for the mucus plugs to spread like that? I will try to get shots of the blue tang, but he is pretty cleared up right now. The powder tang looked pretty clean also, but I will try to trap him to get good photos. Honestly it would be nice if I don't have to pull and treat the whole tank. I would not mind just keeping these two in quarantine for a while.

I decided not to trap this guy yet I got some ok shots of him, he was being real shy with the light set to white. He has spots on his forehead. Maybe I should pull him ASAP...

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Thank you, they have not been all in the same spot. The larger blue tank and the powder tang both started showing spots the day after I first discovered it on the Hippo. Is it possible for the mucus plugs to spread like that? I will try to get shots of the blue tang, but he is pretty cleared up right now. The powder tang looked pretty clean also, but I will try to trap him to get good photos. Honestly it would be nice if I don't have to pull and treat the whole tank. I would not mind just keeping these two in quarantine for a while.

I decided not to trap this guy yet I got some ok shots of him, he was being real shy with the light set to white. He has spots on his forehead. Maybe I should pull him ASAP...

No - this PBT clearly has ich, the spots are much smaller. It may be that the spots on the hepatus just seemed larger due to camera shake or focus.

Copper or hyposalinity in a quarantine tank is going to be your best course of action here.

Jay

 

[Kayanarka]

No - this PBT clearly has ich, the spots are much smaller. It may be that the spots on the hepatus just seemed larger due to camera shake or focus.

Copper or hyposalinity in a quarantine tank is going to be your best course of action here.

Jay

Do you think I should get him out right away, or can he wait for the QT tank to be ready?

Do you think I should leave my Dragonet in a 10 gallon qt so I can monitor his eating better?

How about the wrasse, and the smaller gobies.

I put two bowls of sand in the larger qt tank to hopefully keep them happy. I am worried about everything eating and such, and I am worried about the qt tank not being cycled.

What do you think about moving some of my bio blocks from the DP to the QT.

Here is where the QT is right now. How long can I put off treatment of this powder tang?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Do you think I should get him out right away, or can he wait for the QT tank to be ready?

Do you think I should leave my Dragonet in a 10 gallon qt so I can monitor his eating better?

How about the wrasse, and the smaller gobies.

I put two bowls of sand in the larger qt tank to hopefully keep them happy. I am worried about everything eating and such, and I am worried about the qt tank not being cycled.

What do you think about moving some of my bio blocks from the DP to the QT.

Here is where the QT is right now. How long can I put off treatment of this powder tang?

Setting up a quarantine tank on the fly like this is always very difficult. Definitely use bio media from your DT - as much as you can. Your goal is to keep the ammonia level below 0.25 ppm.

All of the fish are probably going to need to be treated. I can't really advise you on which fish should go in which tank, it's too difficult to figure that out remotely like this.

Have you decided if you are going to go with copper or hyposalinity?

Jay

 

[Reef AquaCult]

Setup a QT with “sacrificed” rock from Display tank and dose copper. Sacrificed meaning never put it back in reef aquarium because it will absorb copper. You have PBT which is acanthurus genus and highly susceptible to ich.

 

[Kayanarka]

Setting up a quarantine tank on the fly like this is always very difficult. Definitely use bio media from your DT - as much as you can. Your goal is to keep the ammonia level below 0.25 ppm.

All of the fish are probably going to need to be treated. I can't really advise you on which fish should go in which tank, it's too difficult to figure that out remotely like this.

Have you decided if you are going to go with copper or hyposalinity?

Jay

I have copper power. I would be nervous to try to keep salinity perfect. Is one way better then the other?

I remember when I bought the first box of salt and though man that is a lot of salt. On to the second box now.

 

[Kayanarka]

Holy moly @ Jay Hemdal I saw you mention your book in another thread and I thought to myself "Oh Jay wrote "A" book. Let me look it up and give it a quick read.

Well you did not write "A" book, you wrote a series of books large enough to go as far as covering "Aquarium Careers". Very impressive sir.

So where do you recommend a budding hobbyist going through Ich start out with your book collection?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I have copper power. I would be nervous to try to keep salinity perfect. Is one way better then the other?

I remember when I bought the first box of salt and though man that is a lot of salt. On to the second box now.

I prefer to use copper power over hyposalinity. Copper also handles velvet, which hypo does not. You need a good copper test kit though.
Jay

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Holy moly @ Jay Hemdal I saw you mention your book in another thread and I thought to myself "Oh Jay wrote "A" book. Let me look it up and give it a quick read.

Well you did not write "A" book, you wrote a series of books large enough to go as far as covering "Aquarium Careers". Very impressive sir.

So where do you recommend a budding hobbyist going through Ich start out with your book collection?

My Aquarium Careers book is posted in the library section here, so you can read it for free.

Most of my books are out of print now (grin). I’m hoping to publish my new disease book next year.

At the top of the fish disease forum is my current quarantine protocol - that’s a good start I think.

Jay

 

[ClownSchool]

I noticed 2 small specs on a small tang, so I pulled the fish, did a fresh water dip, and got her into a ten gallon qt with some copper treatment. Today is her second day in the small med tank and she seems to be in good shape with no spots.

Today I picked up a larger QT tank and a fish trap, and was able to trap another tang. He had a fairly bad break out of very light specs all over. He got the fresh water dip and went into some fresh ro/di salt water with copper dose to match the 10 gallon, and I used that to do a water change on the 10 gallon. He seems to be happy right now. I have to still catch his best friend, a powder tang. This is the first time these two fish have been apart in years

Some things I worry about:

Which fish can not handle copper, gobies? Wrasse? clowns? Hawk fish? Dragonet?

What will my dragonet eat in QT tank.

How to catch smaller gobies.

Which fish should stay in 10 gallon qt tank, maybe do a Salinity change treatment or ttm using 5 gallon buckets instead of copper?

I plan to use the large bio brick from my display sump to seed bacteria in new tank, as well as another bottle of turbo start.

I've been reading about this ich quite a bit now, but plan to review the pinned quarantine thread tonight or early tomorrow (almost 2 am here)

oh should I run my ro/di straight to tank or pre mix all salt water in buckets?

This is the new qt tank red sea 250:

And filled for leak checks:

My LFS is a big tang fan. And, when I shared a story about losing a new hippo I had added due to ick, he said it’s possible to cure ick by simply raising the tank’s temp to 83’ degrees (F) over a 24-36 hour period and keeping it there for about 5-7 days before gradually lowering it back down again.
He said it speeds up the life cycle of the ick in the water column from a week, to a day, and it runs it’s course and dies off before it can build up enough on the fish to do damage.
I asked about the temp change effecting corals, and he said he hasn’t had any ill effects, BUT….
I’m not sure, because I’ve never seen his home tank, don’t know what corals, other kinds of fish, inverts, etc.
He claims he has to do it every time he adds a new tang to his tank, so ask around before attempting this.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

My LFS is a big tang fan. And, when I shared a story about losing a new hippo I had added due to ick, he said it’s possible to cure ick by simply raising the tank’s temp to 83’ degrees (F) over a 24-36 hour period and keeping it there for about 5-7 days before gradually lowering it back down again.
He said it speeds up the life cycle of the ick in the water column from a week, to a day, and it runs it’s course and dies off before it can build up enough on the fish to do damage.
I asked about the temp change effecting corals, and he said he hasn’t had any ill effects, BUT….
I’m not sure, because I’ve never seen his home tank, don’t know what corals, other kinds of fish, inverts, etc.
He claims he has to do it every time he adds a new tang to his tank, so ask around before attempting this.

That is very poor advice, but I hear it once in awhile, in conjunction with using a medication, but I’ve never heard of anyone saying just raise the temperature alone…
Here is the backstory - freshwater ich is caused by a different parasite, one that is brought on when a fish is chilled. Raising the temperature helps with freshwater ich. Marine ich, Cryptocaryon is different. It’s preferred temperature is 86 degrees. People think if it’s good for treating one it’s good for both, but it’s not! The best thing to do with marine ich is slow it down by holding the fish at 78 to 79 degrees and treating with copper or hypo.
Jay

 

[ClownSchool]

That is very poor advice, but I hear it once in awhile, in conjunction with using a medication, but I’ve never heard of anyone saying just raise the temperature alone…
Here is the backstory - freshwater ich is caused by a different parasite, one that is brought on when a fish is chilled. Raising the temperature helps with freshwater ich. Marine ich, Cryptocaryon is different. It’s preferred temperature is 86 degrees. People think if it’s good for treating one it’s good for both, but it’s not! The best thing to do with marine ich is slow it down by holding the fish at 78 to 79 degrees and treating with copper or hypo.
Jay

Thank you. This isn’t the first time I’ve received advice from that guy that has had sound arguments against found here. I appreciate it.

 

[Kayanarka]

My Aquarium Careers book is posted in the library section here, so you can read it for free.

Most of my books are out of print now (grin). I’m hoping to publish my new disease book next year.

At the top of the fish disease forum is my current quarantine protocol - that’s a good start I think.

Jay

You have quite a few books being offered on Amazon, do you still see proceeds from those sales?

That quarantine protocol is exactly what I have been using as a guide.

Unfortunately I lost Dory the Hippo tang. My daughter found her, and took it surprisingly well. I was mixing more water for the quarantine tank when she told me Dory was dead, and she was quite sure of it.

The Blue tang that was in the same quarantine tank as Dory survived fine. I put her back in the display tank for now. The major outbreak has subsided, and I think removing the new Hippo tang has lowered stress levels in the tank. I am going going to use this opportunity to take my time getting the RS250 established. I will go for ich eradication once I feel confident in the new tank water.

In the mean time if I see a worse outbreak in either tang I have the 10 gallon cleaned out and filled for emergencies.

No other fish displayed signs of spots during this period. I did notice some aggression between the powder tang and the blue tang, and it makes me wonder if they really were buddy's at the LFS. The store had them together for years and they appeared "matched", but maybe they were not really too pleased to be together. I will keep watching them, and if I see them being what I think is aggressive again I will try to video it for analysis. I may have to keep them separate forever, and if that is the case I have to decide which one to keep. Above all else I just want the tank inhabitants to be happy and healthy.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

You have quite a few books being offered on Amazon, do you still see proceeds from those sales?

That quarantine protocol is exactly what I have been using as a guide.

Unfortunately I lost Dory the Hippo tang. My daughter found her, and took it surprisingly well. I was mixing more water for the quarantine tank when she told me Dory was dead, and she was quite sure of it.

The Blue tang that was in the same quarantine tank as Dory survived fine. I put her back in the display tank for now. The major outbreak has subsided, and I think removing the new Hippo tang has lowered stress levels in the tank. I am going going to use this opportunity to take my time getting the RS250 established. I will go for ich eradication once I feel confident in the new tank water.

In the mean time if I see a worse outbreak in either tang I have the 10 gallon cleaned out and filled for emergencies.

No other fish displayed signs of spots during this period. I did notice some aggression between the powder tang and the blue tang, and it makes me wonder if they really were buddy's at the LFS. The store had them together for years and they appeared "matched", but maybe they were not really too pleased to be together. I will keep watching them, and if I see them being what I think is aggressive again I will try to video it for analysis. I may have to keep them separate forever, and if that is the case I have to decide which one to keep. Above all else I just want the tank inhabitants to be happy and healthy.

No - those books have pretty much run their course. This year, I've received $15.07 in royalties (grin).

Sorry to hear about the hepatus.

Fish compatibility is a strange thing; fish can live peacefully for years and then start to fight for no apparent reason. Moving fish can disrupt any "truce" and fighting can break out. I've also seen displaced aggression - where two fish start fighting and then one of those two gets angry and starts attacking a third fish. Seeing aggression is also tricky - very often, while you are watching the fish, they stop fighting and are watching you back. Setting up a video and then leaving the room sometimes tells the true story.

Jay