TANK TRANSFER METHOD MULTIPLE FISH SINGLE TANK

Adirondackgold

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Getting 9 fish in all from Divers Den live aquaria -- I have read their quarantine protocols for Wisconsin facility and like that they have done some of the chemical/med dosing in their system because I don't want to.

I have used TTM in the past and will do so here, but I have usually only had a couple of fish at a time. In the past I separated fish each into 2.5 gallons of water with a complete water change every 36 hours. Plan to do the same, but debate the separation. My fish all come from the shared system/parameters. some were even housed together (some pj cardinals.

In theory all 9 in the same bowl for TTM shouldn't matter, should it? TTM in essence seemingly assumes all stages of all things (ich and velvet (tomonts)) on day one of protocol.

Why would that assumption or outcome change if there are multiple fish?

Just trying to see what i may be missing in the thinking.

And feel free to dumb down your responses. The only thing that stands between me and a PhD in marine biology is all the science courses after junior high.


PS: Recognize there are other issues of small confinement. But I can address stress (lots of pvc hides in tank, dark room and red lights). I can also address ammonia, chemically and with evener frequent water changes than the 100 percent every 36 hours to address the overcrowding. Only have to get through six tank rotations. But if you think it is nuts for those reasons feel free to yell!
 
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Jekyl

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Here's the recommended procedure from the fish guru himself. Maybe it will help

 
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Adirondackgold

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Yeah.... but that is what I am trying to avoid with the TTM.

I don't like chemicals (unless they are recreational) and suspect my fish feel the same way.
 

Jekyl

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Many would argue TTM is much worse on the fish. Stress of being relocated over and over.
 

Jekyl

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The person who wrote the article is about as experienced as you can get in the field of fish. Hard to go against the knowledge he has when it comes to quarantine.
 

vtecintegra

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My TTM system uses 2.5 gallons. 3 or 4 small fish is my upper limit in that quantity of water, as long as they get along. I run an air stone nonstop. I transfer to a new container every night, for 14 nights. One, so the water is perfect, and two, to clear possible velvet. I don't do 36 since I prefer doing the swap in the evening.

Nothing wrong with grouping some of them imo. The process covers what ever stage. I treat all of my fish as if they have velvet. Doesn't matter if it diver's den, liveaquaria, or LFS. If I was doing 9 though, I'd probably use 10 gallons, and 36 hrs to save on salt and reduce the burden of changing 10 gallons. Small tang size and above, I do individually in 5 gallon buckets (3~4g of water).

You need a fluke treatment along the way. I don't buy the "stress" excuse. It only takes a couple of seconds, vs sitting in copper (poison) for a few weeks, typically with no biological filtration for ammonia. I just finished with a flame hawk today. He made me laugh because each night I scooped him up with a plastic strainer he would sit up right and hold on like he was on a carnival ride. My two transfer containers are identical with pvc and plastic plants, so they probably think I've set them right back down in the same container. The only problem I've had was a wrasse that wanted to jump.
 
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Adirondackgold

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The person who wrote the article is about as experienced as you can get in the field of fish. Hard to go against the knowledge he has when it comes to quarantine.
Thanks appreciate the guidance. Is there a reason you question the efficacy of TTM assuming stress can be reduced?
 
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Adirondackgold

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My TTM system uses 2.5 gallons. 3 or 4 small fish is my upper limit in that quantity of water, as long as they get along. I run an air stone nonstop. I transfer to a new container every night, for 14 nights. One, so the water is perfect, and two, to clear possible velvet. I don't do 36 since I prefer doing the swap in the evening.

Nothing wrong with grouping some of them imo. The process covers what ever stage. I treat all of my fish as if they have velvet. Doesn't matter if it diver's den, liveaquaria, or LFS. If I was doing 9 though, I'd probably use 10 gallons, and 36 hrs to save on salt and reduce the burden of changing 10 gallons. Small tang size and above, I do individually in 5 gallon buckets (3~4g of water).

You need a fluke treatment along the way. I don't buy the "stress" excuse. It only takes a couple of seconds, vs sitting in copper (poison) for a few weeks, typically with no biological filtration for ammonia. I just finished with a flame hawk today. He made me laugh because each night I scooped him up with a plastic strainer he would sit up right and hold on like he was on a carnival ride. My two transfer containers are identical with pvc and plastic plants, so they probably think I've set them right back down in the same container. The only problem I've had was a wrasse that wanted to jump.
Sounds like we are playing the same approach. Here is a pic of my quarantine set up from last spring. One thing I did because the room was small, is make ambient temperature 76 degrees and keep my transfer tank filled and covered in the same room overnight . I draw water from display tank so parameters of all transfers remain, and with low lighting, and using a colander scoop seemed to keep stress okay. I agree that i am sometimes think they are going back into the same tank. Used pipette instead of ayirstone, can dispose of each transfer so nothing that is inside the tank goes unbleached dried between transfers.
 

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Adirondackgold

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My TTM system uses 2.5 gallons. 3 or 4 small fish is my upper limit in that quantity of water, as long as they get along. I run an air stone nonstop. I transfer to a new container every night, for 14 nights. One, so the water is perfect, and two, to clear possible velvet. I don't do 36 since I prefer doing the swap in the evening.

Nothing wrong with grouping some of them imo. The process covers what ever stage. I treat all of my fish as if they have velvet. Doesn't matter if it diver's den, liveaquaria, or LFS. If I was doing 9 though, I'd probably use 10 gallons, and 36 hrs to save on salt and reduce the burden of changing 10 gallons. Small tang size and above, I do individually in 5 gallon buckets (3~4g of water).

You need a fluke treatment along the way. I don't buy the "stress" excuse. It only takes a couple of seconds, vs sitting in copper (poison) for a few weeks, typically with no biological filtration for ammonia. I just finished with a flame hawk today. He made me laugh because each night I scooped him up with a plastic strainer he would sit up right and hold on like he was on a carnival ride. My two transfer containers are identical with pvc and plastic plants, so they probably think I've set them right back down in the same container. The only problem I've had was a wrasse that wanted to jump.
And what is your fluke treatment? Prazipro? Fresh water bath?
 

vtecintegra

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Prazi day one, six, thirteen. Or at least twice, about a week apart. Fresh water is not completely effective according to Humblefish.
 

nereefpat

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You sure can use TTM on several fish in the same tank. Your logic is fine there. I've done about 6 at a time before, but not 9 I guess.

You just have to be careful of ammonia and make sure they have enough space and hiding places and all can eat. Are you upping the tank size from 2.5 gallons? What fishes?
 
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Adirondackgold

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Thanks. three cardinals couple of clowns and watchman and line gobies and three chalk bass

so actually ten fish. I would use two 3 gallons and split the groups even fiver to each with water changes every 36 hours. Can prime treat water as well. But haven't felt thinned to previously.

I use multiple pic to provide hides and dont heavy feed tilll the end of each transfer so keep some of the accumulation of waste down.

Divers Den already dewormer applied anb some level of copper too. I would like to stay away from meds where I can -- do I need to do pazi and deworm agin?
 
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tha
Prazi day one, six, thirteen. Or at least twice, about a week apart. Fresh water is not completely effective according to Humblefish.
thank you helpful.
Would you still do praziquantel when we know Divers den deworms? this what they do [note especially that last paragraph)


Disease Prevention
Fish, such as clownfish, prone to common parasitic ailments like Brook (Brooklynella hostilis), are given freshwater baths (as needed) that contain anti-parasite medication. Clownfish are quarantined for a minimum of two weeks at our facility before we offer them for sale. When required, Angelfish, Tangs, certain genus of wrasse, and several other species are given therapeutic baths or dips. These baths contain praziquantel or other medications that eliminate flukes, protozoan, and parasites commonly found on fish collected from the wild.

To combat common bacterial infections such as Vibrio, therapeutic baths containing disease specific antibiotics are given. Open wounds on fish are treated and healed with a special topical treatment. As mentioned previously, all quarantined fish are treated with a therapeutic level (0.15ppm) of ionic copper sulfate along with a 37% formaldehyde solution to combat Marine Velvet (Amyloodinium ocellatum) and Saltwater Ich (Cryptocaryon irritans).

Once they start feeding, all new fish that enter our facility, and can be successfully weaned onto prepared foods, are de-wormed, via frozen food soaked in praziquantel, metronidazole, or piperazine. After the de-worming process, we offer a variety of vitamin-enriched foods to all of the fish.
 
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