Tank Trials: Ultra Low Maintenance Tanks | BRStv Investigates

[Ryanbrs]

After having had a 2ft cube for 8 months, not a chance I'd ever have one again. Sad to see that was the route chosen. 40g Breeders turned sideways and run as a peninsula would have been really cool IMO.

Problems with a 2ft cube:

Scaping is hard since you don't have enough horizontal run to make a vertical run not look like a giant pillar.

2 feet severely limits livestock choices. Not that 3 feet is a ton better but 2 feet basically eliminates any algae grazing fish. They just don't have room to swim.

Sump selection just became very, very limited without going custom. Most cube sumps I look at make you make a compromise somewhere or leave something to be desired. Trigger seems to be the best bet and may be the way I go someday.

Lighting becomes a little tougher as well IMO. A 6*24w Sunpower is probably the easiest way to go for simple plug and play. It will spill quite a bit of light out of the tank though. The Aquatic Life hybrid would also be a good fit. Maybe with Kessil 360, AI Prime (probably 2) or an XR15.

I'm torn between using a skimmer and all the maintenance they require or just going with a big ball of chaeto and an LED grow light. The chaeto would require harvesting though.

Those are all legit comments. There have been two particularly nice 60 cubes here at the office which inspired me to want to use these. This size also fit the space I had available. While they are designed to hands off and low maintenance I want to keep close tabs on them and enjoy the tanks so they are in my office : )

Jason's (Ccustomer service lead) 60 cube

Zack's (Marketing team) 60 cube

 

[Ryanbrs]

After having had a 2ft cube for 8 months, not a chance I'd ever have one again. Sad to see that was the route chosen. 40g Breeders turned sideways and run as a peninsula would have been really cool IMO.

Problems with a 2ft cube:

Scaping is hard since you don't have enough horizontal run to make a vertical run not look like a giant pillar.

2 feet severely limits livestock choices. Not that 3 feet is a ton better but 2 feet basically eliminates any algae grazing fish. They just don't have room to swim.

Sump selection just became very, very limited without going custom. Most cube sumps I look at make you make a compromise somewhere or leave something to be desired. Trigger seems to be the best bet and may be the way I go someday.

Lighting becomes a little tougher as well IMO. A 6*24w Sunpower is probably the easiest way to go for simple plug and play. It will spill quite a bit of light out of the tank though. The Aquatic Life hybrid would also be a good fit. Maybe with Kessil 360, AI Prime (probably 2) or an XR15.

I'm torn between using a skimmer and all the maintenance they require or just going with a big ball of chaeto and an LED grow light. The chaeto would require harvesting though.

I also have to agree on the sump selection being a difficult choice in the 60 cube. We have been debating this all week. The biggest issue seems to be the proper size and area for desired equipment leaves very little room in the cabinet for anything else.

These are the sump factors we have been considering in relation to a ULM.

• Available space for other equipment
• Can it hold desired ULM equipment inside the cabinet
• Can we incorporate a refugium/scrubber (likely to be desired)
• Is it easy to clean, baffle spacing, hard to reach small compartments, sponges, splashes/salt creep...?
• Filter socks / Rollermatt considerations? (almost impossible to fit the rollermatt)
• Can the entire sump be removed through the front door for maintenance?
• Space for our return pump options, potentially redundant returns.
• Ez to plumb with safe, easy to tune overflow systems like the bean animal.
• What is the ATO going to look like, will it fit inside the cabinet with the sump?
• Do we really need a sump for the less demanding softy and polype tank?

The sump cabinet space is 22.88 x 22.88 with an open back. These are the options we have around here and have been discussing all week.

• 20 gallon high with DIY baffles - 24" x 12" x 16" (this open will hang out the back 1.5")
• Trigger crystal 18 - 18″ long x 18″ wide x 15″ high
• Trigger sapphire 20 - 20″ long x 20″ wide x 15″ high
• Somatic 60 - 16.5" long x 16.5" wide x 23" high
• Somatic 90 - 24" long x 14.9" wide x 23" high (this open will hang out the back 2")
• Skimz up 14 - 14” L x 18” W x 15” H
• Skimz up 21 - 21” L x 18” W x 15” H
• No Sump (mostly considered just for the softy and polype tank)

 

[Gareth elliott]

I also have to agree on the sump selection being a difficult choice in the 60 cube. We have been debating this all week. The biggest issue seems to be the proper size and area for desired equipment leaves very little room in the cabinet for anything else.

These are the sump factors we have been considering in relation to a ULM.

• Available space for other equipment
• Can it hold desired ULM equipment inside the cabinet
• Can we incorporate a refugium/scrubber (likely to be desired)
• Is it easy to clean, baffle spacing, hard to reach small compartments, sponges, splashes/salt creep...?
• Filter socks / Rollermatt considerations? (almost impossible to fit the rollermatt)
• Can the entire sump be removed through the front door for maintenance?
• Space for our return pump options, potentially redundant returns.
• Ez to plumb with safe, easy to tune overflow systems like the bean animal.
• What is the ATO going to look like, will it fit inside the cabinet with the sump?
• Do we really need a sump for the less demanding softy and polype tank?

The sump cabinet space is 22.88 x 22.88 with an open back. These are the options we have around here and have been discussing all week.

• 20 gallon high with DIY baffles - 24" x 12" x 16" (this open will hang out the back 1.5")
• Trigger crystal 18 - 18″ long x 18″ wide x 15″ high
• Trigger sapphire 20 - 20″ long x 20″ wide x 15″ high
• Somatic 60 - 16.5" long x 16.5" wide x 23" high
• Somatic 90 - 24" long x 14.9" wide x 23" high (this open will hang out the back 2")
• Skimz up 14 - 14” L x 18” W x 15” H
• Skimz up 21 - 21” L x 18” W x 15” H
• No Sump (mostly considered just for the softy and polype tank)

Maybe this one with an algae reactor to save space, allow to also test if they are as effective and easy to clean as a full fuge?

 

[rtparty]

I also have to agree on the sump selection being a difficult choice in the 60 cube. We have been debating this all week. The biggest issue seems to be the proper size and area for desired equipment leaves very little room in the cabinet for anything else.

These are the sump factors we have been considering in relation to a ULM.

• Available space for other equipment
• Can it hold desired ULM equipment inside the cabinet
• Can we incorporate a refugium/scrubber (likely to be desired)
• Is it easy to clean, baffle spacing, hard to reach small compartments, sponges, splashes/salt creep...?
• Filter socks / Rollermatt considerations? (almost impossible to fit the rollermatt)
• Can the entire sump be removed through the front door for maintenance?
• Space for our return pump options, potentially redundant returns.
• Ez to plumb with safe, easy to tune overflow systems like the bean animal.
• What is the ATO going to look like, will it fit inside the cabinet with the sump?
• Do we really need a sump for the less demanding softy and polype tank?

The sump cabinet space is 22.88 x 22.88 with an open back. These are the options we have around here and have been discussing all week.

• 20 gallon high with DIY baffles - 24" x 12" x 16" (this open will hang out the back 1.5")
• Trigger crystal 18 - 18″ long x 18″ wide x 15″ high
• Trigger sapphire 20 - 20″ long x 20″ wide x 15″ high
• Somatic 60 - 16.5" long x 16.5" wide x 23" high
• Somatic 90 - 24" long x 14.9" wide x 23" high (this open will hang out the back 2")
• Skimz up 14 - 14” L x 18” W x 15” H
• Skimz up 21 - 21” L x 18” W x 15” H
• No Sump (mostly considered just for the softy and polype tank)

Your sump list looks like mine [emoji6]

For the softy tank I would still run a sump but only for increased water volume and to hide some equipment (heater, ATO, dosing equipment if desired.) However, a big HOB refugium could hide the heater and temp probe (hoping pump doesn't die and stop heating the display tank while on your one month vacation!) That leaves room under the stand for an ATO reservoir. Maybe the ATO runs kalk. 2 birds, one stone.

I would even make the same argument for the LPS tank as above. You just don't need the equipment (do we really need it for an SPS tank even?)

For me, the SPS tank needs a custom made sump. Plain and simple. If you aren't going to run anything outside the stand, there just isn't enough room for a sump, dosing containers (we can get creative here though) and an ATO reservoir. A custom sump could incorporate at least the sump and ATO reservoir. I believe one of the off the shelf options allows this as well but again you compromise somewhere.

The SPS tank is the one where you have to really decide what is your main filtration going to be? A skimmer or a fuge? Not saying you can't have both but plan on custom and making one of the compartments smaller than desired. I think one of the Trigger sumps has pretty good space for a skimmer in the return, fuge along the front and then the return section. This will bring up, where does the ATO go and is refilling going to be a total pain with any reservoir under the stand? My trigger reservoir from you guys looks good outside my stand and is easy to maintain there.

Now the fun part with an SPS tank and a 2 foot cube...where do you put all the electronics for a controller, return pump, dosing pumps, power heads? Assuming a clean look and install is desired. An extra cabinet becomes your best friend here.

Sorry for the long post. Hopefully something is helpful in all that...

 

[Greaps]

Very cool setup with 3 tanks BRS. From time to time i'v imagined something like that in my house, as a very impressive display when taken together. My thought was a soft coral tank and a densely planted tank side by side. Your test will be very interesting.

 

[Rip Van Winkle]

I was following along on this thread and I noticed that there were posts where people talked about ULM via technology vs via biology (nature). There was also mention of live rock / live sand and the pro's and cons.
Because of the various comments, I just thought I had something valid to contribute and my own experience might help bridge some gaps. I'll throw my 2 cents in here also but not sure how this will be received as my methods are really outside the box.

Before that though, from the 11 pages that I read, folk's ideas about ULM are all over the place. I've seen some comments also where people are trying to understand where this discussion is headed and Ryan replied to that a couple of pages back. There should be some kind of "ULM Standards" set in place to get the discussion going forward in a productive direction (just sayin').

First thing, when setting up a reef system, your sump should be the heart of your build, not your DT. Reefers tend to focus on the DT as the heart. Why should it be the sump, instead? Because your sump will do all the "heavy lifting" so to speak. The display really should only show off the inhabitants and should not be the location where any culturing occurs or where there is some "farming" of livestock or macroalage, or any other similar type of situation going on. I find that when the DT is used for those purposes it always looks messy and it's just not the right place to do maintenance work. The sump is much easier to work with. The other thing is that when that idea is in the mind of the person putting together the system, the build takes on more clarity. At least, it does for me.

Since the sump will be the heart of the system, focus on setting that up first. As was mentioned before in this thread, when things are not done right, it's always a problem later. So go in with that idea and treat your sump as the most important thing in your reef system and you'll make the system all that much more low maintenance. Just one example would be someone who considers a reef system sump as a "detail" in the build compared to someone who considers it the heart of the system. Wouldn't you agree that the size chosen for the sump would be different? (IE: probably much larger for the reefer who considers it the heart of the system) That's why I say, go in with that focus.

Now people talked about live rock and the benefits of having it in a new setup. They are correct. There was also talk about the pitfalls of putting live rock in a new system. They are also correct. So if both are correct, how to manage that? Then, how does that apply to ULM?
The answer is have a place to triage the live rock that won't kill the inhabitants but will be a zone that will allow the rock to get sorted.

If you build the sump in a compartmentalized way, there will be more flexibility. For a typical setup, I take 4 15G tanks (12"H x 12"W x 24"L). Turn the tank on the 12"W end, that will be the end facing outward. Drill a hole for a - minimum 1.5" (preferably 2") - bulkhead on the 24"L side, near the top. Plumb a simple overflow using PVC pipe. Do this for 3 of the tanks. Now put the tanks in a stand that will hold each of the 15G tanks right next to each other with no space between them and one above the other so that the highest tank, when filled will flow via gravity into the next tank which is slightly lower. This repeats itself until the lowest tank in the stand. Similar to the idea of water flowing down steps. In the lowest 15G tank, the return pump and plumbing going up to the DT. The drain from the DT overflow is directed into the first 15G tank which is the highest one in the stand. This is your sump. Sixty gallons, 48"L x 24"W. Waterflow from the DT going into the top tank and spilling down, eventually ending up in the lowest tank, then returned to the DT. Flowrate through the 15G sump sections depends on the return pump capacity. The large diameter drains allows basically any type of return pump size. Total height would be around 24" from top of the highest 15G compartment to bottom of the lowest one. (Total height depends on how the tank drilling is managed and how the individual elevations for each of the tanks are installed on the stand.)

This is extremely inexpensive and easy to build. Way better than any typical sump in use presently (IMHO). Keep in mind this can be scaled up or down if you increase or decrease the sump compartment size. (IE: use 10G instead of 15G) I use 15G tanks because they are 12"W, which I find practical. On a stand for a 6ft DT, use six instead of four (would be 90G sump).

Keep in mind, any modification can be done with this: baffles can be added to the tanks to make more compartments or sections if desired. If this were to be set up and filled with SW first, before the DT is even on the stand, the system cycling could immediately start (the return diverted to the highest 15G tank on the stand instead of the DT). With this kind of sump, one could take the live rock and put it into one of the sections (one of the 15Gs) and just let whatever is on the rock sort itself. Combine that with a live sand bed and whatever critters are on the rock will spread to the sand or will eventually show themselves on the rock. There would be time to examine and sort the rock, especially if a little food was added. Some inhabitants undesirable? No problem. Deal with that compartment only. They can't really go anywhere. They can't go upstream, that's for sure. If they are able to go through the overflow to the next 15G compartment with a BB (no sand yet), they'd be easy to capture and remove. Want to treat the live rock for some reason? Stop the return pump. Water levels off in the last 15G compartment and what's left is 4 completely separate sections. These sections are also serviceable. For example, if the stand construction allows, any section could be completely pulled out/slid out for maintenance. I can go on an on here but I think most will get the idea, now on how practical this is to work with.

Some brief examples, DSB & Macro algae in one 15G compartment (with light over that section); Rock rubble in another section; lots of place for equipment in another. Get creative and manage to personal preference.
The advantage with this type of sump is the possibility of having biodiversity in your system while also keeping critters separate from the DT. So it could be possible to have a BB DT but still have the benefits of a substantial DSB in the system that could house an efficient CUC like a sea cucumber or serpent stars/brittle stars, sifter gobies, etc, that wouldn't do well in a BB environment in the DT. Also very easy to culture pods in.

Now, combine this with the "skip cycling" mentioned previously: Take NSW, live collected rock, live sand (possibly different granularities in the different compartments?) live collected macro algae, live collected CUC. That's an instant reef system. If you know what you're doing with the lighting, there will not be any dieoff with this setup because the water is tumbling from one section to the other. I would recommend letting this run for a minimum of 30 days (preferably 45) before filling the DT and connecting it to the system. As a brand new system, feed it (feed very little for first few days) and monitor. This setup will mature very quickly.
Then whenever you're ready, put your DT on the stand fill it up and connect it to the sump. If there has been a DSB and macro algae with a CUC, running for at least 30 days previously in one of the sections, I can guarantee you won't have any ammonia or nitrate spikes. No skimmer needed (doesn't hurt to have one set up, though).

So this would be the answer to having/using LR & LS in your system and the advantages and disadvantages mentioned in this thread. Use the sump to triage the LR - however you get it, shipped by air or boat. Now you have a place to allow the LR to acclimate to your system/monitor it without anything spreading to other parts of the system. Suppose you get LR that hasn't transported well and is already in the dieoff stage when you receive it. No problem. The system sump will mitigate that because it's already cycled and can handle the LR. I'd even go as far as to claim that this setup (after at least 30 days running) would save LR that is in the dieoff stage and reverse it because it's a setup that facilitates nature and natural biological processes.


Lastly how do I relate this to ULM and tank management long term?
Simple: Dose NSW?

Hunh?
Yeah,... dose natural sea water. The best thing in the world to dose. There's really nothing better and best of all, it's free.

Once a week, I go to the beach and fill a 10L plastic bottle with NSW. I have a stone carved out of LR sitting on the bottom of the lowest secion of my sump, that allows me to place the bottle inverted into it. (Similar to how bottled water is inverted into an office water dispenser.) Since water will naturally seek to equalize itself in solution, the new NSW in the 10L bottle will slowly dissipate into the total volume of the existing system over the next 4 or 5 days. No pump necessary happens via osmosis. (not sure if that's the correct term)
Net effect is that pH, Alk, Calc, Mag are all rock solid. Bonus is phytoplankton and zooplankton are broadcast. There is also a slight increase in water volume, as the bottle sticks out above the surface of the section of the sump adding a couple more gallons to the sump. At the end of the week, pull the 10L bottle out (still completely full) go back out the the beach and get a refill.
No calc/alk/reactor or dosing 2-part needed.

So that's a system that could run possibly even a 90G DT. ULM.

Note: I haven't really mentioned a DT because basically any size DT could be connected with this type of sump. Just size the sump to taste. One final point is this type of sump is completely portable. It could be made of plastic containers (as was mentioned earlier) instead of glass aquariums. Drill the plastic the same way. Then, get large enough plastic bins that have a lid that seals, and put the sump sections into them. Easy to transport individual sections and they won't spill during transport.

Now if you have a DT and you really want to push it and pack it full of SPS, you might need to dose 2-part. Either that or increase the NSW refill frequency.

I understand that not everyone has access to NSW or the ocean but I just wanted to put this out there anyway. I think one important point of setting up a system in this way, is that it's more conducive to fostering patience in the hobby. I say this because even if the DT is not set up yet, the sump part of the system is running and possibly has inhabitants so there's still a sense of engagement with the hobby in the meantime.

Sorry for blowing up your thread with this long post.

HTH

 

[Scorpius]

^ Yup, we all live next to the ocean.

 

[Rip Van Winkle]

^ Yup, we all live next to the ocean.

Like I said I wasn't sure how this will be received but I was hoping that the idea would inspire, anyway.

Even if people don't really have access to a NSW source, the idea of this type of setup could still be applied, albeit partially to ULM style reefing. It does solve some problems and makes management/maintenance easier.

You have to give me a little credit though,.... I didn't even make one peep about NSW on tap.....

 

[K100286]

Congratulations, I can see you put a lot of thought into this. Your very creative and think this would be a good way to get a large sump in a small space. BRS should try this on one of the tanks. I would like to to video on the final set up, and see if it produces the low maintenance I think it will.

 

[Gareth elliott]

Lastly how do I relate this to ULM and tank management long term?
Simple: Dose NSW?

Hunh?
Yeah,... dose natural sea water. The best thing in the world to dose. There's really nothing better and best of all, it's free.

Once a week, I go to the beach and fill a 10L plastic bottle with NSW. I have a stone carved out of LR sitting on the bottom of the lowest secion of my sump, that allows me to place the bottle inverted into it. (Similar to how bottled water is inverted into an office water dispenser.) Since water will naturally seek to equalize itself in solution, the new NSW in the 10L bottle will slowly dissipate into the total volume of the existing system over the next 4 or 5 days. No pump necessary happens via osmosis. (not sure if that's the correct term)
Net effect is that pH, Alk, Calc, Mag are all rock solid. Bonus is phytoplankton and zooplankton are broadcast. There is also a slight increase in water volume, as the bottle sticks out above the surface of the section of the sump adding a couple more gallons to the sump. At the end of the week, pull the 10L bottle out (still completely full) go back out the the beach and get a refill.
No calc/alk/reactor or dosing 2-part needed.
HTH

I personally would be unable to do this method. Though I am lucky enough to live at the beach, it is also a very busy fishery on the east coast. Couple this with any run off that enters at the shore line. I would have to travel substantially off shore to ensure i didnt add petroleum, fertilizers, low salinity water, etc. i do like your sump plan though.

 

[SereneAquatic]

I was following along on this thread and I noticed that there were posts where people talked about ULM via technology vs via biology (nature). There was also mention of live rock / live sand and the pro's and cons.
Because of the various comments, I just thought I had something valid to contribute and my own experience might help bridge some gaps. I'll throw my 2 cents in here also but not sure how this will be received as my methods are really outside the box.

Before that though, from the 11 pages that I read, folk's ideas about ULM are all over the place. I've seen some comments also where people are trying to understand where this discussion is headed and Ryan replied to that a couple of pages back. There should be some kind of "ULM Standards" set in place to get the discussion going forward in a productive direction (just sayin').

First thing, when setting up a reef system, your sump should be the heart of your build, not your DT. Reefers tend to focus on the DT as the heart. Why should it be the sump, instead? Because your sump will do all the "heavy lifting" so to speak. The display really should only show off the inhabitants and should not be the location where any culturing occurs or where there is some "farming" of livestock or macroalage, or any other similar type of situation going on. I find that when the DT is used for those purposes it always looks messy and it's just not the right place to do maintenance work. The sump is much easier to work with. The other thing is that when that idea is in the mind of the person putting together the system, the build takes on more clarity. At least, it does for me.

Since the sump will be the heart of the system, focus on setting that up first. As was mentioned before in this thread, when things are not done right, it's always a problem later. So go in with that idea and treat your sump as the most important thing in your reef system and you'll make the system all that much more low maintenance. Just one example would be someone who considers a reef system sump as a "detail" in the build compared to someone who considers it the heart of the system. Wouldn't you agree that the size chosen for the sump would be different? (IE: probably much larger for the reefer who considers it the heart of the system) That's why I say, go in with that focus.

Now people talked about live rock and the benefits of having it in a new setup. They are correct. There was also talk about the pitfalls of putting live rock in a new system. They are also correct. So if both are correct, how to manage that? Then, how does that apply to ULM?
The answer is have a place to triage the live rock that won't kill the inhabitants but will be a zone that will allow the rock to get sorted.

If you build the sump in a compartmentalized way, there will be more flexibility. For a typical setup, I take 4 15G tanks (12"H x 12"W x 24"L). Turn the tank on the 12"W end, that will be the end facing outward. Drill a hole for a - minimum 1.5" (preferably 2") - bulkhead on the 24"L side, near the top. Plumb a simple overflow using PVC pipe. Do this for 3 of the tanks. Now put the tanks in a stand that will hold each of the 15G tanks right next to each other with no space between them and one above the other so that the highest tank, when filled will flow via gravity into the next tank which is slightly lower. This repeats itself until the lowest tank in the stand. Similar to the idea of water flowing down steps. In the lowest 15G tank, the return pump and plumbing going up to the DT. The drain from the DT overflow is directed into the first 15G tank which is the highest one in the stand. This is your sump. Sixty gallons, 48"L x 24"W. Waterflow from the DT going into the top tank and spilling down, eventually ending up in the lowest tank, then returned to the DT. Flowrate through the 15G sump sections depends on the return pump capacity. The large diameter drains allows basically any type of return pump size. Total height would be around 24" from top of the highest 15G compartment to bottom of the lowest one. (Total height depends on how the tank drilling is managed and how the individual elevations for each of the tanks are installed on the stand.)

This is extremely inexpensive and easy to build. Way better than any typical sump in use presently (IMHO). Keep in mind this can be scaled up or down if you increase or decrease the sump compartment size. (IE: use 10G instead of 15G) I use 15G tanks because they are 12"W, which I find practical. On a stand for a 6ft DT, use six instead of four (would be 90G sump).

Keep in mind, any modification can be done with this: baffles can be added to the tanks to make more compartments or sections if desired. If this were to be set up and filled with SW first, before the DT is even on the stand, the system cycling could immediately start (the return diverted to the highest 15G tank on the stand instead of the DT). With this kind of sump, one could take the live rock and put it into one of the sections (one of the 15Gs) and just let whatever is on the rock sort itself. Combine that with a live sand bed and whatever critters are on the rock will spread to the sand or will eventually show themselves on the rock. There would be time to examine and sort the rock, especially if a little food was added. Some inhabitants undesirable? No problem. Deal with that compartment only. They can't really go anywhere. They can't go upstream, that's for sure. If they are able to go through the overflow to the next 15G compartment with a BB (no sand yet), they'd be easy to capture and remove. Want to treat the live rock for some reason? Stop the return pump. Water levels off in the last 15G compartment and what's left is 4 completely separate sections. These sections are also serviceable. For example, if the stand construction allows, any section could be completely pulled out/slid out for maintenance. I can go on an on here but I think most will get the idea, now on how practical this is to work with.

Some brief examples, DSB & Macro algae in one 15G compartment (with light over that section); Rock rubble in another section; lots of place for equipment in another. Get creative and manage to personal preference.
The advantage with this type of sump is the possibility of having biodiversity in your system while also keeping critters separate from the DT. So it could be possible to have a BB DT but still have the benefits of a substantial DSB in the system that could house an efficient CUC like a sea cucumber or serpent stars/brittle stars, sifter gobies, etc, that wouldn't do well in a BB environment in the DT. Also very easy to culture pods in.

Now, combine this with the "skip cycling" mentioned previously: Take NSW, live collected rock, live sand (possibly different granularities in the different compartments?) live collected macro algae, live collected CUC. That's an instant reef system. If you know what you're doing with the lighting, there will not be any dieoff with this setup because the water is tumbling from one section to the other. I would recommend letting this run for a minimum of 30 days (preferably 45) before filling the DT and connecting it to the system. As a brand new system, feed it (feed very little for first few days) and monitor. This setup will mature very quickly.
Then whenever you're ready, put your DT on the stand fill it up and connect it to the sump. If there has been a DSB and macro algae with a CUC, running for at least 30 days previously in one of the sections, I can guarantee you won't have any ammonia or nitrate spikes. No skimmer needed (doesn't hurt to have one set up, though).

So this would be the answer to having/using LR & LS in your system and the advantages and disadvantages mentioned in this thread. Use the sump to triage the LR - however you get it, shipped by air or boat. Now you have a place to allow the LR to acclimate to your system/monitor it without anything spreading to other parts of the system. Suppose you get LR that hasn't transported well and is already in the dieoff stage when you receive it. No problem. The system sump will mitigate that because it's already cycled and can handle the LR. I'd even go as far as to claim that this setup (after at least 30 days running) would save LR that is in the dieoff stage and reverse it because it's a setup that facilitates nature and natural biological processes.


Lastly how do I relate this to ULM and tank management long term?
Simple: Dose NSW?

Hunh?
Yeah,... dose natural sea water. The best thing in the world to dose. There's really nothing better and best of all, it's free.

Once a week, I go to the beach and fill a 10L plastic bottle with NSW. I have a stone carved out of LR sitting on the bottom of the lowest secion of my sump, that allows me to place the bottle inverted into it. (Similar to how bottled water is inverted into an office water dispenser.) Since water will naturally seek to equalize itself in solution, the new NSW in the 10L bottle will slowly dissipate into the total volume of the existing system over the next 4 or 5 days. No pump necessary happens via osmosis. (not sure if that's the correct term)
Net effect is that pH, Alk, Calc, Mag are all rock solid. Bonus is phytoplankton and zooplankton are broadcast. There is also a slight increase in water volume, as the bottle sticks out above the surface of the section of the sump adding a couple more gallons to the sump. At the end of the week, pull the 10L bottle out (still completely full) go back out the the beach and get a refill.
No calc/alk/reactor or dosing 2-part needed.

So that's a system that could run possibly even a 90G DT. ULM.

Note: I haven't really mentioned a DT because basically any size DT could be connected with this type of sump. Just size the sump to taste. One final point is this type of sump is completely portable. It could be made of plastic containers (as was mentioned earlier) instead of glass aquariums. Drill the plastic the same way. Then, get large enough plastic bins that have a lid that seals, and put the sump sections into them. Easy to transport individual sections and they won't spill during transport.

Now if you have a DT and you really want to push it and pack it full of SPS, you might need to dose 2-part. Either that or increase the NSW refill frequency.

I understand that not everyone has access to NSW or the ocean but I just wanted to put this out there anyway. I think one important point of setting up a system in this way, is that it's more conducive to fostering patience in the hobby. I say this because even if the DT is not set up yet, the sump part of the system is running and possibly has inhabitants so there's still a sense of engagement with the hobby in the meantime.

Sorry for blowing up your thread with this long post.

HTH

Thank you for posting this. I am still new and just getting started... And your post reminds me that what I am REALLY doing is recreating a natural habitat. That kind of gets lost in the 'Do this, then that, check this, add that' instructions. I really like your approach, and I wish I had read something like this about 2 weeks ago... I would have selected my tank differently. (To have room for a better sump setup) When I do my next tank (Oh yes... Already thinking of the second) I will be coming back to your post to take another look.

 

[jasonrusso]

At the end of the week, pull the 10L bottle out (still completely full) go back out the the beach and get a refill.
No calc/alk/reactor or dosing 2-part need

So you are using NSW as a top off? Doesn't this change the salinity over time?

 

[Rip Van Winkle]

Congratulations, I can see you put a lot of thought into this. Your very creative and think this would be a good way to get a large sump in a small space. BRS should try this on one of the tanks. I would like to to video on the final set up, and see if it produces the low maintenance I think it will.

Thanks!

..... i do like your sump plan though.

Thanks!

Thank you for posting this. I am still new and just getting started... And your post reminds me that what I am REALLY doing is recreating a natural habitat. That kind of gets lost in the 'Do this, then that, check this, add that' instructions. I really like your approach, and I wish I had read something like this about 2 weeks ago... I would have selected my tank differently. (To have room for a better sump setup) When I do my next tank (Oh yes... Already thinking of the second) I will be coming back to your post to take another look.

Thanks!

I'll try to post some pics.

So you are using NSW as a top off? Doesn't this change the salinity over time?

RO/DI for top off due to evaporation. Dosing (I say dosing because it's easily understood by everyone) NSW as an alternative to making a standard water change. Plop the fresh NSW into the stone receptacle in the sump and let it equalize itself. - it's basically dosing NSW.

If BRS would have been somewhere close to the ocean, I would have suggested they try to do this sump method with all live collected substrate, LR/LS & macro algae (and perhaps some softies?) to make an "instant reef", meaning skip cycle, as it's termed. I think for that to work, transport would have to be something like 4 hours or less and require a substantial sand bed in at least one 15G compartment. But would have been fun to see how a reef system could be set up without any cycling required, just sayin'.

 

[Rip Van Winkle]

Am working on a portable version. This was the leak test. No electrical done and only the frame of the stand is completed.

 

[siggy]

Time for the Sump designers to develop a vertical ( tiered ) sump design like the canister filters. What is the bioload going to be? and is socks or roller mat even needed. Then there is dosing storage and equipment.
AS you stated if you can pull this off with this size the rest will be a given.
Kudo's for discovering another engaging frontier.

 

[JBKReef]

I am very interested to see where you go with the 60 cube from Marineland. I have the 93 Gallon cube reef ready Marineland. The trigger sump fit perfectly for me, I can not remove the sump for maintenance, however through using ball valves on the returns and planning the plumbing properly can mostly drain the sump and maneuver it enough to reach all chambers of the sump. I'm not sure if the 60 stand would be big enough for this however.

Height was the biggest issue for me with the stand as it came, I had to add a 4 inch raiser to be able to properly remove my skimmer for maintenance.

 

[Coolbreeze69]

• Trigger crystal 18 - 18″ long x 18″ wide x 15″ high

• Trigger sapphire 20 - 20″ long x 20″ wide x 15″ high

I will have to say that BRS has some guts going with a cube. When planning my 105g tank I started off with a 35g cube from Marineland and had many issues with space. But what I did was to buy a sump that was a little smaller then then the width (4") and made a DIY auto Top off tank out of acrylic and put it right next to the sump.

The tank was built for a softie, but the idea is that I will have the size of three of these for the final product. Since my tank will be in my living room as a center point it has to look good or work without my noise. looking forward to the next segment.

 

[Tjm23slo]

I have the 18" H 45 gal cube version and built in a 3 3/4" internal sump. Used acrylic for the sump wall. Kessil 360W, 8" above water, Dual overflows (either side) with filter pad, Bio Home Marine media and a Chemipure Blue (just one side), Tunze 9001 skimmer (opposite overflow from Chemipure), dual tunze pumps and two mp 10 power heads mounted on the same side. Hindsight, I should have done, 1 overflow, 1 larger pump (opposite side of my mp10s) and used the center section for a refugium and scrapped the skimmer.

Scaping is really a rock mound with small caves for shrimp and crabs and a Bengali Cardinal. Most corals are polyps, softies and LPS. Blastos, Hammers, Zoas, Gonioporas, mushrooms. Still a work in progress.

 

[SantaMonica]

focus on the DT as the heart

I'd agree, if a sump were going to be used. But in the spirit of the thread (and if not a reef pond) then I vote for no sump at all. Keeps everything simple, and with today's gadgets everything can but put in the display. Of course even better is no gadgets.

 

[Rip Van Winkle]

Wait,.... who's quote was that?