Tank Trials: Ultra Low Maintenance Tanks | BRStv Investigates

[ReefBeta]

In regarding automation, also keep in mind of the complexity (aka, work) and cost to setup and fine tune the maintenance.

I was just thinking about starting a simplest tank for LPS and zoa, with just a 10~20 gallon with a HOB filter, a circulation pump, and nothing else, bare bottom. And do a 10 gallon water change every week or two and call it a day. Water change may sound like not ULM, but two buckets every week or two is not that much, and in return it uses minimal equipments, and thus minimal maintenance on them. Maybe as the tank mature is needs less frequent water changes too?

Low maintenance can be achieved by comprehensive automation, but can also be simplify setup to bare minimal. I'm not sure which path you're taking, but probably worth to take both.

 

[DLHDesign]

From a water volume standpoint, do you think the 40gal with a sump is the most beneficial option as it relates to dilution and stability? Could larger volume tanks provide even less maintenance as it relates to this standpoint?

I would think that any ULM system would include an auto-water-change (AWC) system anyways. If so, then the needs of the tank can be handled by scaling up/down the amount of water being changed every day?

 

[cpbartak]

In going ULM, I would also strive for simplicity. Make it as ULM as possible but while also having the fewest components that might crash/break over the long run, too. For instance, a rollermat adds mechanical parts that can fail over the long term compared to filter socks, even though it is lower maintenance. Thus, for each component, consider if the added mechanical complexity to the system is worth it in the long run for what it's reducing in required maintenance. Preferably make the system the fewest number of "things" as possible.

Definitely a big refugium, algae reactor, or algae turf scrubber.

 

[Greaps]

This is a great idea. My suggestion's for this experiment would be a skimmer + liquid carbon dosing. (fairly basic but were looking low maintenance)
1. Tank Size 120G (drilled overflow) LPS, Soft Corals +invert tank.
2. 40G sump (skimmer compartment and return chamber)(High flow sump by use of manifold to redirect return flow to recirculate thereby suspending deteritus, no other mechanical filtration.
3. Skimmer
4. BRS DOSERS (4) (2 Part +Mag)(NoPOX)(tied to controller)
5. AC Return Pump (on controller to turn off when auto feeders run)
6. AUTO FEEDER
7. ATI SunPower (on timer or controller)

 

[chefjpaul]

Cool Idea BRS.

#1 - sandbed. Meaning to have none.

#2 automation

 

[MikeO5422]

Great idea, in terms of category - tanks with sumps and all in one tanks because each style could employ different techniques.

To me a ULM tank is one that I don't need to tinker with more than once or twice a week. This includes everything from ATO, dosing, water changes, maybe feeding...on the fence about feeding.

The real test of a ULM tank to me would be - can you go away for two weeks with minimal to no negative impact on the system. Minimal impact being nothing dies, starts dieing, and no parameters go so far out of whack that they require immediate attention or the former occurs.

 

[Eder R.]

I would like to see what options/methods can can be applied to create a ULM tank with all in ones like the ones manufactured from Red Sea.

 

[splix]

LPS and polyp tank
ULM also incorporates ULR (ultra low risk). I think one of the best ULM tanks right now would be the Red Sea Max E260. No sump, no tinkering, nothing above and beyond what is necessary. Large enough to be somewhat stable, and forces the customer to keep it simple. Pumps, skimmer, carbon/media.....done. Lights are self sustained, throw an apex with an ATO on there to keep things monitored, breakout box for a few float switches (skimmer and ato redundancy), ALD, AFS, DOS, etc. and run the skimmer to a larger collection.

This is my setup and I can easily leave it alone for a month with a large enough ATO reservoir. The glass would be dirty, nitrates would probably be up, but thats it. After 30 days, this would be the maintenance:
refill ATO
refill AFS
40% WC - 30 gallons
empty skimmer collection
clean the glass

About an hour worth of maintenance per month.

 

[Mr.Rocc]

I would really love to see a 40ish gallon aio tank. No external overflow or sump. I really think this will be a challenge. The AIO community and where 80% of us start out have gone through the struggles of daily maintenance with these low volume tanks so this would be ground breaking!

 

[brandon429]

Here are the reasons I think a standard reefbowl will be hard to beat in this category

-no ato, and doesn't need one, only shifts .023-.0235/.024 over about 7 days' time, which all corals we can fit in nanos wil tolerate. the topoff is once a week a couple ounces distilled water because the lid fits on the inner diameter of the upper vase area. that causes a physicality that opens doors massively (no salt creep, total gas exchange, evaporation reduced 99% from a normal reef and a few more)

there is a way to change the topoff schedule, without an ato, same salinity shift, out to a record 19 days discovered by reefbowl Keeper Tyler JOhnson on youtube, floored me. the way you do it is stop using air as the primary system driver and switch to a powerhead for major circ, and then you still bubble in 1/18th of the original air stream to run the required degassing/exchange. Evaporation stops, sps growth doesn't, long documented already.

There isn't a design avail that beats a reefbowl for salinity stability.
-by changing water once a week, and feeding only in bulk right before that event, no ion testing of any kind is needed to grow corals for the life of the tank. temp and salinity, only.
-we'd be hard pressed to find a species of lps, and sps, rational for use in any nano reef that isn't already all over the web plated fully inside a vase or jar. the gamut of corals is already doc'd

by keeping the sandbed clean, these systems are documented long and hardy, and repeatable. as a matter of pride we like to turn brand new reefers onto them, smashing the old adages/

I believe a reefbowl is already the most minimal reef ever made and I cannot wait to see how topoff alone is handled as reliably in alternate ways, as a no-fail point in a system.

of course we're limited too, no fish (too small)

but for corals, we produce em in droves.

a reefbowl doesn't care what your parameters are from the salt brand you use, we're salt brand independent, as no dosing is required, across all brands of salt. our weekly schedule accounts for all ion support and documented uptake in the very densest systems per gallon possible. We have a short written list of procedures (most described here above) that even a non-marine keepers can run with success, nano-reef.com has some active right now in the picos forum.

great thread/furthers our science and scope.

the bar to reach:

-no mechanical topoff system, and salinity control out to 7 days before intervention.

-no testing req, life of sys, beyond temp and salinity. Don't think we are working with mid shelf corals, youtube Maritza the Vase reef, see if that doesn't qualify as top shelf as anyone else in this thread has. 1.5 gallons.

-we don't cycle reefbowls, we skip cycle them. Bring home simple frags with your coralline live rock if you must, that's already covered as every water change is equal to the first day you set up the system.

-no dosers ever needed, and all reef invaders are already documented beaten in a reefbowl. whatever invades you, we've covered how to kill it. we use reefbowls as the coach for large tankers on how to turn around their invasions in threads documented out to a couple hundred pages worth. 100% based on reefbowl science. the one gallon tank fixed the 200 gallon tank over and over and over

-doesn't matter what salt, ever. doesn't matter if you switch it 100% each week for the life of the system, we don't care about salt brand or params.

-long lived, decades long in fact.

easy to set full redundancy in place, a reefbowl can cover 5+ days power outage on battery bubbler for a bait tank on a couple d batteries.

if someone can mix up salt water correctly, they can grow sps right now.

 

[Bradley Keck]

As someone who has purchased a lot of equipment based on recommendations from BRS investigates, my main concern already is I'm not going to like what I hear and have buyers remorse. Example: last year I bought a trigger 34 sump with the idea of having several forms of nutrient reduction - skimmer, refugium, filter socks, and carbon/GFO. Then I hear about the Triton method and no longer having to water changes, which would be great, but now I would need a whole new sump for a larger refugium. Also, I purchased the h80 for my refugium only to then see that it really didn't perform better than a cheaper LED bulb and should have purchased the h380. Dang! One thing I would like to see given consideration with this investigation is all the investment in equipment we already have, and what can be done to make our tanks ULM without having to purchase new equipment or replace existing equipment. So much of the info from BRS investigates has been invaluable to helping guide my build, but now I need to know what can I do with what I have to make it ULM. I have read a lot above about automation, but that too has it's own monitoring and maintenance needs, so I don't know that a bunch of sophisticated automation, dosing, and reactors truly gets you to ULM. A piece of mind that catastrophic fails aren't going to occur, combined with simple design, minimal equipment, reliability, stability, and solid results would get my vote! Also, lets not forget the maintenance required with all the equipment we do use. The more equipment, the more routine work you are going to have to perform and the greater potential for something to go awry. I am a total rookie, but here is what I would say would work. First, the tank size would not be the issue, but how much you stock it would. I would say regardless of tank size, stock it lightly and have less bioload. Second, I like the refugium idea. It's simple, effective, and not mechanical. It can provide you with most if not all your needed nutrient reduction. Third, let's ditch the skimmer. Fourth, instead of power heads which require routine cleaning let's do a closed loop system through a larger more powerful return pump than what you would normally use to achieve 3-5x turnover rate. Multiple return nozzles placed to provide random turbulent flow that can be directed many different ways. I can't see a way to replace an ATO. I'm at a loss there. As far as reactors, controllers, and dosers go, the less the better IMO, but we do have to be able to replenish our systems and achieve stability so, stocking corals like softies that do not use up as much Ca, etc. would help in regards to needing reactors, dosers, and controllers I suppose. Of course, if I went with a system like this, I'd be starting over practically

 

[ps2cho]

Just some observations I’ve seen in my last year — a decent amount of Pukani and a light bioload provides drastic export functions in that I am unable to maintain above zero Po4 or NO3, even now after dosing Reef energy aminos daily.

I have completely stopped water changes 3-months ago and still have zero nutrients. I would think it makes sense on larger tanks as you can stuff more fish in, but mid-size tanks where you can’t get a bunch of tangs, maintaining enough fish poop can be hard with only a few fish

 

[Newb73]

Or stock it accordingly and not do water changes

But i LIKE my 4 tangs!!! LoL.

 

[Newb73]

A 6' tank with automation and livestock is the price of a Boat, add scuba tanks and you have a zero maintenance ocean tank

That depends on the boat.

My six ft 225g tank with stand, canopy and deliver was $1700.

150 to 180s run around 1200 to 1300.

 

[choss]

For me its the following:

1. AWC system with large reservoir
2. MH/T5 lighting (plug & play - no tinkering required - no hot spots, etc.)
3. RODI plugged into a reservoir that feeds ATO w. safeties in place (solenoid, float switches etc.)
4. Controller for easy monitoring
   
5. Refugium (or not)
6. skimmer that is easy to clean and reliable
7. battery backup for in tank pumps

 

[Newb73]

In going ULM, I would also strive for simplicity. Make it as ULM as possible but while also having the fewest components that might crash/break over the long run, too. For instance, a rollermat adds mechanical parts that can fail over the long term compared to filter socks, even though it is lower maintenance. Thus, for each component, consider if the added mechanical complexity to the system is worth it in the long run for what it's reducing in required maintenance. Preferably make the system the fewest number of "things" as possible.

Definitely a big refugium, algae reactor, or algae turf scrubber.

You hit the nail on the head and that is the real debate.

I avoid the crash issue by having back ups.

Having back ups is pricey.

Let's unpack this...the goal isn't the cheapest or the easiest to set up for the less tech saavy.

Some of you are submitting ways to reef on the cheap and some of you are submitting ideas for less complexity for a novice.

These are all diffetent things and we may be confusing the issue.

The goal as stated is the least weekly and monthly maintenance period, at any cost, at any user level.

Perhaps we need more parameters for tbis project.

 

[iemsparticus]

I would think a standard 4’x2’x2’ 120 gallon would be a great size for a ULM. The water volume makes stability easier to attain, its not so deep that or wide that reaching things in the tank is a pain, there would be plenty of room underneath for automation equipment, it’s a great size to hold fish like rabbit fish, tangs, etc... that help with maintenance... and it’s still small enough that even if one had to do a water change from time to time, it’s pretty quick and easy.

I’d avoid AIOs, because they tend to be more difficult to modify and customize... and we will certainly be going in that direction for ULM things, and customizing everything kind of defeats the point of an AIO anyway...

 

[Newb73]

To be fair, a 3 step step stool from target for $50 solves the problem of being able to reach things in the tank....

 

[JimFuller]

A 6' tank with automation and livestock is the price of a Boat, add scuba tanks and you have a zero maintenance ocean tank

But when in Montana, the tank is cheaper when you factor in the trips to the ocean tank [emoji6]

We are on a multi year build to a large tank. 75 Gallon Reef tank in the living room for two year while my office is remodeled for retirement. We intend a big tank in there seeable from our North Deck and the office. I do not wish to do to much work in the future like Sanjay [emoji16]

 

[brandon429]

The goal as stated is the least weekly and monthly maintenance period, at any cost, at any user level

reefbowl wins still, and w about 17 yrs online documentation already in place showing repeatability. the water change takes 3 mins a week and there is no dosing or testing in the interim, pack as much sps as you want inside.

Im factoring based on time spent doing tank work if we considered say, a year of tracking weekly and monthly costs and time spent maintaining sys to production level. I can see how that portion should be clarified for calibration

a little test wowed me. Salinity confirm or deny coming up
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/another-pico-jar-quarantine-capsule.341465/#post-4250893