Territorial fire/cinnamon clown trying my patience

fugetaboutit05

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Tank setup : 55g with approx 80lbs of rock work/aquascape. (20lbs live)
Plenty of caves, alleys, and places to hide. Plenty of room to move around also.

Inhabitants : original 2 fire/cinnamon clowns (1M/1F) ; 1 jeweled blenny ; CUC (mix of snails, H. crabs) 1 H. Crispa Nem & 1 BTA.

About 36 hrs ago i added 1 Bella Goby and 2 regular clowns (very young approx 1” in length.

The female fire clown has become EXTREMELY territorial, both the male and female have bonded with the H. Crispa Nem. Honestly I love it, its really awesome to watch the fish live and react with this Nem.

My problem is the female has been on a war path with any new fish i place in the tank, the Bella lasted only a day. Less than a day to be exact. I watched the clown give the Bella a hard time until it found a cave and stayed there, but every time it came out she was like a missile going for it. I woke up the following morning to the Bella goby on the floor dead.

The 2 new Nemo clowns i added are intended to bond (hopefully) with the BTA. But this fire clown will not let them out of the corner. She flies across the tank every time they venture even several inches away from the corner.

The loss of the Bella I’m not going to lie, was the last straw with this fish. If anyone has advice or an idea that may work with stopping this 1 fish from owning my tank I’m all ears....she’s a day or 2 away from taking up residence in the predator tank i built not too long ago. See how much of a ****** she is with some real bully fish.

I’m still pretty banged up about losing the Bella to this dang clown and her behavior lol....
 

runcis

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Your tank is far too small for 2 pairs of clownfish! Especially if the first pair is of fire clowns. As NeonRabbit221B put it, it's absolutely an owner doing research problem...
 
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fugetaboutit05

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I see your point as far as the 2 pairs of clowns go. There was always a contingency plan in place for the BTA and the new clowns.

My main question, is how to abate the territorial behavior of 1 fish to allow for other fish to be added to the aquarium. The Bella goby is the main example. No matter what species of fish it is, the fire clown will direct all of its attention to it.
 

NeonRabbit221B

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That is a better question. I was blunt... mostly from a lack of coffee so I apologize.

Mirrors have worked for me in the past. Adding so the most aggressive fish goes in last is best case. You an also try rearranging the rock work (works fantastic for African Cichlids, less so when they have colonies of coral on them). Additional feeding and reducing lighting can be good distractions.
 

vetteguy53081

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Cinnamon and maroon are both pretty but also terrorists and quickly learn to bite human hands besides being territorial bullies
 

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Myself I dared to introduce a fire clown to my existing 8 fish's community only when I had upgraded from the 200 l cube to a 400 l rectangular tank, and it was a last fish to come into the new tank. My LFS told me that the Fire is not aggressive she's just defending her territory :)
 

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Myself I dared to introduce a fire clown to my existing 8 fish's community only when I had upgraded from the 200 l cube to a 400 l rectangular tank, and it was a last fish to come into the new tank. My LFS told me that the Fire is not aggressive she's just defending her territory :)
And by territory, they mean the entire tank.
 

DeniseAndy

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In that size tank, only a pair will work and they will terrorize any fish added after they have established a pairing. They have probably layed eggs and will not tolerate many other creatures in their tank. It is theirs by the way. I had a a pair of ocellaris that did not allow many fish in a 210g. Crazy!!

If you want more fish, you may have to remove the clowns and add the others to establish a territory and then add clowns back in (may work if you wait it out a month or so).
 

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Having multiple pairs of clowns is probably a bad idea as well. They will be next... Its not a clown problem, its an owner doing research problem. Clowns are territorial and depending on how you own them will always attack and defend their home.

This gentleman's problem is the fact he doesn't research? What's he doing right now on R2R?

I think you could have went about that comment in a different way. Imho.
 
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fugetaboutit05

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That is a better question. I was blunt... mostly from a lack of coffee so I apologize.

Mirrors have worked for me in the past. Adding so the most aggressive fish goes in last is best case. You an also try rearranging the rock work (works fantastic for African Cichlids, less so when they have colonies of coral on them). Additional feeding and reducing lighting can be good distractions.
I really appreciate the apology, i am new to the saltwater hobby, so sometimes when questions get asked and experienced reefers don’t offer solutions only finger pointing, the actual problem never gets solved.

Honestly your suggestion of adding the most aggressive fish last is what I thought i was doing. At the direction of my LFS, i waited on adding tangs and a few other fish for this purpose alone. It wouldn’t be the first time they led me down an incorrect path.

As far as rearranging the rock work, i added more structure to the center of my display. This added more caves, more tunnels etc... i even went as far as creating a space with some pretty cool dry rock formations from the store and leaving a fairly wide area on the floor, where i moved the anemone they are attached to. Moving all this the Nem re-footed, the 2 fire clowns followed, and they’ve taken up residence in this new area.

But still the same results. The suggestions to get rid of the fish is not a viable option( made by another commentor). I made a commitment and i intend to keep it.

I’m thinking that if all else fails, my contingency plan for the other 2 clowns and the BTA may have to be switched to accommodate the 2 fire and the H. Crispa.
This however, is something I’m not to keen on trying, especially with the Nem. I don’t want to risk the Nem.
 

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I really appreciate the apology, i am new to the saltwater hobby, so sometimes when questions get asked and experienced reefers don’t offer solutions only finger pointing, the actual problem never gets solved.

Honestly your suggestion of adding the most aggressive fish last is what I thought i was doing. At the direction of my LFS, i waited on adding tangs and a few other fish for this purpose alone. It wouldn’t be the first time they led me down an incorrect path.

As far as rearranging the rock work, i added more structure to the center of my display. This added more caves, more tunnels etc... i even went as far as creating a space with some pretty cool dry rock formations from the store and leaving a fairly wide area on the floor, where i moved the anemone they are attached to. Moving all this the Nem re-footed, the 2 fire clowns followed, and they’ve taken up residence in this new area.

But still the same results. The suggestions to get rid of the fish is not a viable option( made by another commentor). I made a commitment and i intend to keep it.

I’m thinking that if all else fails, my contingency plan for the other 2 clowns and the BTA may have to be switched to accommodate the 2 fire and the H. Crispa.
This however, is something I’m not to keen on trying, especially with the Nem. I don’t want to risk the Nem.
I admire your commitment. I wasn't suggesting a BBQ or flushing them. However, if that fish is killing other fish, you have to consider their lives as well. Either move these fire clowns to a separate tank, or stop adding fish for them to bully.
 
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fugetaboutit05

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In that size tank, only a pair will work and they will terrorize any fish added after they have established a pairing. They have probably layed eggs and will not tolerate many other creatures in their tank. It is theirs by the way. I had a a pair of ocellaris that did not allow many fish in a 210g. Crazy!!

If you want more fish, you may have to remove the clowns and add the others to establish a territory and then add clowns back in (may work if you wait it out a month or so).
I have been trying to devise a plan to move the entire crew.( both fire clowns, the Nem they bonded with & pieces of the formations built) to a new tank. I would just create another build specifically for them.

The thing i keep coming back to is the Nem. I read a lot about them and i know they are fragile creatures. They can be “hardy” in some cases but i really don’t want to push my luck.

Honestly, the fire clowns have done a phenomenal job with the Nem. So I don’t want to separate them.
 
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fugetaboutit05

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Cinnamon and maroon are both pretty but also terrorists and quickly learn to bite human hands besides being territorial bullies
She’s bit me before lol, doesn’t hurt my feelings tho as i know she’s defending the Nem. I’m also in the building trades, so i have thick skin, the only tank that makes me think twice is my predator tank lol
 
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fugetaboutit05

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I admire your commitment. I wasn't suggesting a BBQ or flushing them. However, if that fish is killing other fish, you have to consider their lives as well. Either move these fire clowns to a separate tank, or stop adding fish for them to bully.
A BBQ lol.... that made me laugh actually because after she forced the Bella out of the tank that was my first reaction... i told my wife i was gonna cook her and feed her to the dogs.

In all seriousness tho, you may be right. I had come up with a plan to move the 2 new clowns and the BTA in to a 20g before i even added them. All the reading i had done showed me that this was what i was going to need to do. But i had read in several forums that some people had success with a similar setup. As long as there was a second Nem for the new pair. Obviously I’m not going to have the same success as they did lol.

The BTA is small and that’s why i went with the very young clown pair. But if i move the more established Nem i am worried about its survival.

Kind of a “ stuck between a rock and a hard place “ scenario right now.
 

TriggersAmuck

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With my medium sized fire clown I have not been successful with any midsize/middle water column swimmers (Royal Gramma, Cryptic Wrasse). On the other hand, I have 9 gobies of different types, all very petite, and the clown doesn't pay one notice of them. Take a look at my build thread if you want specifics. Simple fact is Fire Clowns are some of the most aggressive fish out there. For me, that is part of their interesting character....they own the tank!
 

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You can try fish jail. Get a breeder box (hanging in the tank), capture the offender, and put it in there for a few days. My LFS suggests this first for aggressive fish behavior. The timeout lets the other fish get established in the tank. I don't know how this will work for paired clowns, etc. They do it in store if they have a clown that is overly aggressive to the other tank mates. Just a suggestion to try.
 
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