Test results are in and its not looking good! Any advice?

[Rilo]

I currently have about 15 gallons of ocean water waiting for the next water change. I'm running a blubber in it to avoid dengue/mosquitoes. If I add some sand from the tank to it will the cycle start? It seems I need a way to cycle the ammonia out of the water before I use it.

I'm going to post the P-Dub's comment again since it has the information on starting the cycle and more. Pay special attention to the second link.

Ralph, thanks for the tidbits of information. Based soley on what you have stated, you are nowhere near ready for coral. If that coral makes it, I'd be amazed. I STRONGLY suggest that you head over to...
New to Saltwater & Reef Aquariums? Post Here
Then pay special attention to the "Stickie" particularly...
Cycling an Aquarium
The beneficial bacteria in a freshwater system, for the most part, do not live in a marine environment
Additionally...
The Supreme Guide To Setting Up A Saltwater Reef Aquarium
and, finally...
Beginners Guide to Acclimation and Quarantine
Best of luck.

Best of Luck

 

[Ralph Ritoch]

I'm going to post the P-Dub's comment again since it has the information on starting the cycle and more. Pay special attention to the second link.

Best of Luck

I already read the article on cycling the aquarium. It doesn't say anything about what happens when you add ocean water with ammonia in it to a tank.

 

[Ralph Ritoch]

I'm going to post the P-Dub's comment again since it has the information on starting the cycle and more. Pay special attention to the second link.

Best of Luck

So are you trolling me? I bet that article that I haven't completed yet also doesn't say ANYTHING about what to do when your water source has ammonia in it! If you don't want to help, than don't, but trolling isn't called for.

 

[Jon Fishman]

Bigger system doesn’t necessarily mean you can safely just not do water changes. You need a new water source

 

[Ralph Ritoch]

Bigger system doesn’t necessarily mean you can safely just not do water changes. You need a new water source

Seems like a catch-22 to me. If I use RO water and synthetic salt I'll be missing trace minerals needed to sustain the tank but I won't have the ammonia problem, if I use the ocean water I will have all the minerals I need but an ammonia problem. If I can cycle out the Ammonia before adding it to my tank the problem is solved.

 

[Jon Fishman]

Seems like a catch-22 to me. If I use RO water and synthetic salt I'll be missing trace minerals needed to sustain the tank but I won't have the ammonia problem, if I use the ocean water I will have all the minerals I need but an ammonia problem. If I can cycle out the Ammonia before adding it to my tank the problem is solved.

99% of people use RODI and store bought salt (well, 99% use store bought salt at least)

They have trace elements in them

 

[Ralph Ritoch]

99% of people use RODI and store bought salt (well, 99% use store bought salt at least)

They have trace elements in them

Thanks. That is good to know.

As my current solution I have added a bio-ball and bubbler to the waiting salt water. With a bigger container, that I already have, I could hold 4 water changes at a time so once the tank fully cycles and I can reduce water changes to 10% every 2 weeks. That should be enough to remove all of the ammonia before adding it to the tank.

(edit) I added a bag of ceramic rings from the filter also. That will hopefully provide enough surface area to cycle the water that is waiting to be used. I'm clearly in uncharted territory but adding ammonia to the tank every week is clearly not going to work.

 

[P-Dub]

Seems like a catch-22 to me. If I use RO water and synthetic salt I'll be missing trace minerals needed to sustain the tank but I won't have the ammonia problem, if I use the ocean water I will have all the minerals I need but an ammonia problem. If I can cycle out the Ammonia before adding it to my tank the problem is solved.

Hey Ralph, I hear your frustration but the bottom line is, there are right ways to do things to be successful. I don't know where you are located in the world but I live in a remote location with no LFS or supplier. I often must wait a month or longer to get things shipped in and often there are places that just don't ship or items that can't be shipped to me. I find a way to make it happen and it IS really expensive. If you read anywhere on this or other reef forums you will find a constant theme, reef keeping costs a lot of money in general and takes an overabundance of patience. If you lack any one of the two necessary ingredients it might not be for you.
These are the basics for reef keeping we are talking about here. If the basics cannot be accomplished perhaps freshwater is the best plan. The tank was a freshwater tank before and I certainly do love a well-done freshwater or planted tank.
All the best.

 

[Rilo]

So are you trolling me? I bet that article that I haven't completed yet also doesn't say ANYTHING about what to do when your water source has ammonia in it! If you don't want to help, than don't, but trolling isn't called for.

I currently have about 15 gallons of ocean water waiting for the next water change. I'm running a blubber in it to avoid dengue/mosquitoes. If I add some sand from the tank to it will the cycle start? It seems I need a way to cycle the ammonia out of the water before I use it.

The article answers one of the questions you had on the second quote.

We can only help so much with the limited resources you seem to have. And in a hobby where one small error can completely crash your entire system you want to careful with what you use.

Things like Good filtered RO water are critical to the reef and should not be sacrificed. Without filtered water the tank will have all sorts of contaminants in the long run causing an unsightly tank and death of your fish/coral.

 

[Ralph Ritoch]

Hey Ralph, I hear your frustration but the bottom line is, there are right ways to do things to be successful. I don't know where you are located in the world but I live in a remote location with no LFS or supplier. I often must wait a month or longer to get things shipped in and often there are places that just don't ship or items that can't be shipped to me. I find a way to make it happen and it IS really expensive. If you read anywhere on this or other reef forums you will find a constant theme, reef keeping costs a lot of money in general and takes an overabundance of patience. If you lack any one of the two necessary ingredients it might not be for you.
These are the basics for reef keeping we are talking about here. If the basics cannot be accomplished perhaps freshwater is the best plan. The tank was a freshwater tank before and I certainly do love a well-done freshwater or planted tank.
All the best.

Patience isn't a problem but time is, and right now this tank is nothing but a liability. It was supposed to reduce stress but its doing nothing but adding stress right now. Once I figure this system out I'm going to just hire someone to manage it because it is nothing but a waste of my time and energy at this point.

 

[Jon Fishman]

Patience isn't a problem but time is, and right now this tank is nothing but a liability. It was supposed to reduce stress but its doing nothing but adding stress right now. Once I figure this system out I'm going to just hire someone to manage it because it is nothing but a waste of my time and energy at this point.

Sounds like a worthwhile hobby to persue

 

[Ralph Ritoch]

The article answers one of the questions you had on the second quote.

We can only help so much with the limited resources you seem to have. And in a hobby where one small error can completely crash your entire system you want to careful with what you use.

Things like Good filtered RO water are critical to the reef and should not be sacrificed. Without filtered water the tank will have all sorts of contaminants in the long run causing an unsightly tank and death of your fish/coral.

I'm using water directly from the ocean. Basically you are saying the ocean is headed for an "unsightly death of all fish and coral". I hope you aren't right. Judging by the ammonia levels though, you probably are.

 

[Jonathan Troutt]

Man reading through this threadmade me frustrated. You have been told what to do several times. You have been given countless links and information to read to help you be successful.
The tank is is a “liability” as you say because of your actions. You decided to start a saltwater tank with no knowledge of how to do so. Then you come here to literally the best and most knowledgeable forums on the freaking planet express your frustration and ask for help but then you don't take the advice that is given and put it into practice.

You can be successful in keeping saltwater tanks but you have to accept the advice given and start with proven methods. You are making this experience stressful. I would suggest you go back and reread what others have wrote. Take notes, gain some perspective, and start over.

We are all here to help people. But you have to be willing to accept the help. Good luck

 

[Ralph Ritoch]

Man reading through this threadmade me frustrated. You have been told what to do several times. You have been given countless links and information to read to help you be successful.
The tank is is a “liability” as you say because of your actions. You decided to start a saltwater tank with no knowledge of how to do so. Then you come here to literally the best and most knowledgeable forums on the freaking planet express your frustration and ask for help but then you don't take the advice that is given and put it into practice.

You can be successful in keeping saltwater tanks but you have to accept the advice given and start with proven methods. You are making this experience stressful. I would suggest you go back and reread what others have wrote. Take notes, gain some perspective, and start over.

We are all here to help people. But you have to be willing to accept the help. Good luck

I did exactly what was suggested! I did the water change, I increased the salinity levels. You mean because I don't take out all of the fish and coral for them to die??? There is literally NOTHING more I can do right now. There is literally no place these fish or coral can be placed where they won't die. This is the ONLY salt water tank in this town. I can't add a sump because the floor will collapse, and I'm doing a renovation in 6 months.

 

[Ralph Ritoch]

To all of you experts who suggest I let the coral and fish die and start over I just want to say, I made a HUGE mistake coming to this forum!

 

[brandon429]

Ralph, me and you did four detailed pages in message...every detail reviewed you know we care about your tank here. You have only one problem= being overwhelmed. This is why I like one gallon reefs, they are easier lol irony

need to pick one coach and not stray away from the plan and not combine coaches then your customized approach will work.

Not once in our discussion did I tell you your tank cannot work, we listed unique challenges running fifteen degrees above norm constant. I told you the biology that occurs when you keep a home reef at 86-92 degrees, and the work required to manage it such as reducing, not increasing, surface area in your canister filter

We took the variables you present and offered a plan - need to master this size tank before getting any other one

 

[ZaneTer]

You need to take a deep breath and realise you are biting the hand that feeds you.

We all understand your frustration but from our collective experience we don’t believe this particular attempt will bode well for your current inhabitants.

If you have a vehicle then I suggest you drive a few miles away from the nearest river and get your salt water from there where the contamination should be at its least.

 

[Shluffer]

Ralph - you can make this work, but need to shift perspective a bit. Dont accept defeat. If its impossible for what you have to survive then it wont. Just do what you can and dont stress about it.

Brandon's advice to listen to one coach is gold. I have one person I'm listening too on fixing my reef (crazy algae issue now mostly under control but improving daily). If your listening to Brandon, listen to him. He knows what he is doing.

 

[Ralph Ritoch]

Ralph, me and you did four detailed pages in message...every detail reviewed you know we care about your tank here. You have only one problem= being overwhelmed. You need to pick one coach and not stray away from the plan and not combine coaches then your customized approach will work.

Not once in our discussion, not once, did I tell you your tank cannot work and work well. I told you the biology that occurs when you keep a home reef at 86-92 degrees constant, and the work required to manage it. We took the variables you present and offered a plan - you need to master this size tank before getting any other one

Brandon,

I actually have a coach here who has been working with me one on one and is the ONLY reason this tank hasn't already seen a miserable death of all its residents. Most of the advice was good and helpful, but I'm a software engineer and I know from experience that restarting a system just because it has problems doesn't lead to a better system. In this case they are literally suggesting I just kill these pets.

You can disregard the next line as it is for those who aren't helpful.

*** There is no other salt water aquarium in this town and they were dying in the fish store. They sure as hell won't survive in the 1.018 SG 0.25 PPM Ammonia the ocean here has to offer ***

I'm constantly frustrated by this one Torch that bleached and now dying but the remaining torches were fine until I followed the advice here and increased the salinity level. This is a new tank and I expected to see some Nitrite and Nitrate, but I never expected Ammonia still being in the tank or in the source water. The Ammonia in the source water is clearly the problem but if I can find a natural solution, such as cycling the water in a storage tank before using it for water changes than that is a fairly natural solution. I have an RO filter and synthetic salt for the water changes but I strongly prefer to find a way to use the ocean water safely. If this does work than it is probably also a solution to help the wild reefs. I don't have extra live rock but I've added some bio balls from my tanks filter, ceramic rings, and dead coral, to the storage tank, with a bubbler and will monitor to see if it cycles. If I can't get the ammonia out than I'll have no choice but to use the RO water, but its worth a try. Those who insist that this tank is doomed or that I should start over aren't people I'm willing to listen to.

I assure you this wasn't directed at you. I'm actually more frustrated by the bad advice than I am with the actual problem.

 

[Billdogg]

Is there any way you can collect your water from a couple (or more) miles from shore? I think that would probably take care of the Ammonia issue for you - it is almost certainly coming from the run-off from land.

FWIW - you DO NOT need a skimmer or sump. I ran a 60g cube for 22 years using a canister filter and a HOB filter. Nothing more. You will find that your hydrometer is just fine. They tend to be off a bit one way or the other, but consistency is way more important than any exact number. If you can run a fan across the top surface it will hepl to cool things quite a bit. That will increase the dissolved oxygen in the water and by default make things easier for any life you have in there. I, too, would suggest getting rid of the FW "stones" you have. They contribute nothing and could possibly leach harmful chemicals into the water. In easy way to increase oxygen levels in the water is to point a power head up towards the surface to agitate it. The more, the better, as long as it's not spilling over the top! You might alos try collecting sand from a couple hundred yards out so that what you have is actually live. That, too, will help get your cycle going.

If I had access to real ocean water I'd never buy salt again! Once again, I will bet that the Ammonia is due to the FW runoff and not the ocean water itself. Collect it further from shore and that issue will go away all on it's own.

I wish you all the luck in the world! Please feel free to PM me too if I can be of any help. I want you to succeed!!!