Test results are in and its not looking good! Any advice?

[Sandyego reeyfur]

if you are using an api saltwater test kit, the ammonia reading almost never shows true canary yellow, so if its showing .25 ppm its probably PROBABLY nothing.

 

[Ralph Ritoch]

if you are using an api saltwater test kit, the ammonia reading almost never shows true canary yellow, so if its showing .25 ppm its probably PROBABLY nothing.

Even worse, I'm using a freshwater test kit. Its the same bottles but the colors are slightly different. Still far better than nothing. I placed my order for a bottle of API bacteria and will stop doing water changes right now anyhow because it will be 2-3 weeks before the reservoir completes its cycle and/or the bacteria arrives. The important thing, for me at least, is that the levels are functional even if far from ideal, and there is no reason that this system should crash. If the bacteria works which I have no reason to believe it won't, than I'll invest in the led lighting. That should be enough to keep this system going for the next 6-8 months. Now I need a small adjustment to my renovation plans since I need to make room for a 90 gallon reservoir tank for water changes. I now have hope for this tank which is something I didn't have yesterday, thanks to the people here who put up with my insanity and actually helped me find solutions which fit my circumstances.

 

[BestMomEver]

Why don't you take some of your own advice.

These are miserable excuses, unacceptable. He said he has an RO, if not, he should get one and some salt. Not that controversial.

So what advice was it you wanted to give the OP before you got sidetracked lecturing us?

I do and I have. I pride myself on being a nice person. I think you misunderstood my post.... the point is Be Nice. You seem to have difficulty with the concept.

I don’t want to sidetrack this thread anymore so I’ll sign off.

 

[MnFish1]

I read this - and then read parts again. I would stop at this point - and monitor. I would stop changing things and let happen what is going to happen. (i.e. no more fish, etc). I would order what ever is required to set up the tank properly, wait for that to arrive and then manage the tank appropriately. If you cant get a sump or skimmer - then IMHO it makes sense to stop trying to manage the tank as if you do. If you cant get NSW with NSW parameters (salinity, ammonia, etc) - stop using it and use a different source.

I have to admit - I had to skip reading a bit after the first page - so I don't know if your fish survived or not - but - even clown fish will not survive with .75 ppm ammonia. And - by definition - the water your using for your tank is poor quality - as natural seawater should only rarely have traces of ammonia. Are you sure your tests are accurate?

Again - I apologize if I'm making you read something you already have - but to me its like you're trying to make spaghetti using room temperature water - and you go to a cooking forum and say - why is my spaghetti not working - people say - becasue you're not boiling your water - and you say - well I cant boil the water - so I'll just keep doing what I'm doing.

 

[Ralph Ritoch]

I read this - and then read parts again. I would stop at this point - and monitor. I would stop changing things and let happen what is going to happen. (i.e. no more fish, etc). I would order what ever is required to set up the tank properly, wait for that to arrive and then manage the tank appropriately. If you cant get a sump or skimmer - then IMHO it makes sense to stop trying to manage the tank as if you do. If you cant get NSW with NSW parameters (salinity, ammonia, etc) - stop using it and use a different source.

I have to admit - I had to skip reading a bit after the first page - so I don't know if your fish survived or not - but - even clown fish will not survive with .75 ppm ammonia. And - by definition - the water your using for your tank is poor quality - as natural seawater should only rarely have traces of ammonia. Are you sure your tests are accurate?

Again - I apologize if I'm making you read something you already have - but to me its like you're trying to make spaghetti using room temperature water - and you go to a cooking forum and say - why is my spaghetti not working - people say - becasue you're not boiling your water - and you say - well I cant boil the water - so I'll just keep doing what I'm doing.

The final verdict seems to be that no the tests aren't accurate. Its a known issue with this test kit. No fish have died, 2 torch polyps seem to have died but they were down to about 5 fully bleached tentacles when I received them. There is one other Torch Polyp that is bleached and struggling but not dead yet. The remaining 4 Torch Polyp's were doing great until I increased the salinity level, now I'm not so sure. I'm monitoring but they haven't fully extended the way they did with the lower salinity.

 

[Ralph Ritoch]

Again - I apologize if I'm making you read something you already have - but to me its like you're trying to make spaghetti using room temperature water - and you go to a cooking forum and say - why is my spaghetti not working - people say - becasue you're not boiling your water - and you say - well I cant boil the water - so I'll just keep doing what I'm doing.

I'm sure it may seem like that as there were a lot of trolls projecting their own ideas about what was going on and they frankly had NO CLUE! Adding a sump/skimmer isn't an option right now, that is true, but it also isn't a requirement for a 40 gallon tank that will only be used for 6-8 months. I'm going with filter & water changes for now but I need to complete the cycling of the tank and reservoir (supply water) first. As for my water supply, I'm less than a mile from the ocean, all the water and salt I could ever need. I also have a RO filter and synthetic salt as a back-up. So I must say at this point I'm confident that this tank is going to survive and that those who said otherwise simply don't know what they are talking about. According to them all the fish and coral should already be dead, which obviously wasn't correct.

 

[Jon Fishman]

You need to cycle the tank, not the reserve water

 

[Ralph Ritoch]

You need to cycle the tank, not the reserve water

Not reserve, reservoir. It is where I will process the ocean water before its use and yes I need to cycle it also so that the bacteria in the reservoir can remove any ammonia or nitrite before it hits the tank. I've actually already stated this repeatedly. Weekly water changes with NO ammonia is far better than trace amounts so the only ammonia being processed in the main tank will be whatever the inhabitants are producing. There is more than one way to do things and I think that is why some of you are losing your minds!

 

[Ralph Ritoch]

Let me explain this a different way. Imagine you have 2 tanks running. You do water changes in tank 2 first, and you take the water from tank 1. You replenish tank 1 from fresh ocean water which has contaminants. Which tank will do better? Obviously the second tank because the first tank does most of the work of removing the contaminants. That is what the reservoir is. It has filter material for the bacteria to grow in and I have already raised its Ammonia level to 3 PPM so that it will cycle.

I should also make clear that this isn't a complete water change, it will be about a 12% water change.

 

[W1ngz]

You need to cycle the tank, not the reserve water

He needs to cycle both. The tank is probably almost done, but his reservoir seems like it will always have low levels of ammonia input due to the source water having some. If the reservoir is capable of processing ammonia and doing some evaporation to compensate for the dilution from local rivers. that's the best he's able to get.

Ralph, zooming out on your maps and looking at the silt/sand pattern on google maps (admittedly, they might just be photographic errors), it looks like you not only get dilution locally, but if the prevailing currents are northward, you also get some dilution from another river south of you. If there's any way to collect water near or just south of Binalbagan, I can't help wonder if it might be better quality in terms of ammonia, salinity and other agricultural contaminants.

 

[Ralph Ritoch]

Ralph, zooming out on your maps and looking at the silt/sand pattern on google maps (admittedly, they might just be photographic errors), it looks like you not only get dilution locally, but if the prevailing currents are northward, you also get some dilution from another river south of you. If there's any way to collect water near or just south of Binalbagan, I can't help wonder if it might be better quality in terms of ammonia, salinity and other agricultural contaminants.

Its likely possible, it may also be possible for me to find a fisherman to get me water from the deep ocean. It is also possible for me to just use RO + Synthetic salt. I want to try to process the local Ocean water first. If I can't get that to work my immediate fallback is the RO + Synthetic salt which is apparently what 99% of home reefers do.

 

[Ralph Ritoch]

As for increasing the salinity with the reservoir, I keep forgetting about that detail. I should probably put the reservoir outside so it can boil in the sun. For now I'm just adding synthetic salt. Either way, I ran some calculations and it seems that the evaporation rate may actually be too high which I can fix with the RO water.

 

[Jon Fishman]

Not reserve, reservoir. It is where I will process the ocean water before its use and yes I need to cycle it also so that the bacteria in the reservoir can remove any ammonia or nitrite before it hits the tank. I've actually already stated this repeatedly. Weekly water changes with NO ammonia is far better than trace amounts so the only ammonia being processed in the main tank will be whatever the inhabitants are producing. There is more than one way to do things and I think that is why some of you are losing your minds!

First step would be testing the water again with something other than API. I agree your source water probably has a lot of contaminates from where you are collecting from, but really don’t think ammonia would be detectable levels

 

[Ralph Ritoch]

Lastly water changes is my only real plan for the Nitrate at this point while I have no sump but I'm also considering a Chaeto Reactor. Right now that isn't a high priority but it seems to be something that could get the Nitrate levels down low enough that it would be safe and possibly even beneficial for me to return the waste water to the ocean.

 

[Ralph Ritoch]

First step would be testing the water again with something other than API. I agree your source water probably has a lot of contaminates from where you are collecting from, but really don’t think ammonia would be detectable levels

I will add it to the list of things I need to get but the API test kit is having no problem reading the high ammonia levels in my reservoir, which I intentionally raised to start a cycle. I'm not so sure that more accurate readings will do much to change the current situation but it will certainly be needed to stabilize the system.

 

[MnFish1]

I will add it to the list of things I need to get but the API test kit is having no problem reading the high ammonia levels in my reservoir, which I intentionally raised to start a cycle. I'm not so sure that more accurate readings will do much to change the current situation but it will certain be needed to stabilize the system.

You added ammonia to your NSW reservoir? There is no need to cycle anything in your reservoir - and if the ammonia in the water youre collecting has ammonia - it probably has multiple other toxins, etc.

I would think that The best way to 'remove ammonia' (cycle is the wrong word - the bacteria that 'cycles' a tank lives on sold surfaces - not in the water) - is to merely add a filter (that contains nitrifying bacteria) to the reservoir - that will then remove any ammonia in the water (like a canister filter - or a HOB filter).

I don't mean to be critical - but why come to a forum ask questions and then ignore or say all of the people who are answering and trying to help are 'losing our minds' (to use your words)?

 

[Jon Fishman]

I will add it to the list of things I need to get but the API test kit is having no problem reading the high ammonia levels in my reservoir, which I intentionally raised to start a cycle. I'm not so sure that more accurate readings will do much to change the current situation but it will certainly be needed to stabilize the system.

I am more questioning a false positive on your NSW

 

[Ralph Ritoch]

You added ammonia to your NSW reservoir? There is no need to cycle anything in your reservoir - and if the ammonia in the water youre collecting has ammonia - it probably has multiple other toxins, etc.

I would think that The best way to 'remove ammonia' (cycle is the wrong word - the bacteria that 'cycles' a tank lives on sold surfaces - not in the water) - is to merely add a filter (that contains nitrifying bacteria) to the reservoir - that will then remove any ammonia in the water (like a canister filter - or a HOB filter).

I don't mean to be critical - but why come to a forum ask questions and then ignore or say all of the people who are answering and trying to help are 'losing our minds' (to use your words)?

Taken directly from the article here on how to cycle a tank that was given to me in this thread...

Cycling an Aquarium

Cycling a new aquarium. One of the earliest topics a new aquarium hobbyist needs to learn is how to properly cycle their aquarium. There is a ton of information on this process and many different methods on how to accomplish it. There are many different chemical and biological cycles our tank...

www.reef2reef.com

"
There are many different takes on this and it is largely a matter of opinion. So here are the most common ways from worst to best in my opinion.

Adding a fish – while it will work as an ammonia source, why would you make a fish suffer in an environment in which it can’t properly shed its toxins?

Ghost feeding – When you add food to the tank you are adding much more than just what breaks down to ammonia. While none of it will be a problem, other than possibly algae, this is an uncontrolled process.

Adding a shrimp – The shrimp will decay and create ammonia, but again, this is an uncontrolled process. How much ammonia will this add and how quickly? I don’t know.
"

In my case I added some fish food and shrimp.

 

[Ralph Ritoch]

I am more questioning a false positive on your NSW

So here is where things are at. The coral isn't happy about the new salinity level 1.024 so I lowered it to 1.023 and it immediately responded. I believe my hydrometer isn't properly calibrated/labeled. It reads the ocean water at 1.018 and the Torch do not like 1.024 which indicates the reading is a bit lower than the actual value. At some point I will certainly be getting a digital Ammonia tester and a refractometer, but 90% of the advice I'm getting here is complete and utter garbage and nothing short of trolling!

 

[W1ngz]

Well, that’s my cue to fold and leave the table.

Most of the advice you’ve been given is quite accurate. People just aren’t used to working with the limitations you have, some of which seem self imposed.

Best of luck finding help with such a hostile attitude.