THE BLAME GAME: Are we too quick to blame others? Maybe we should look in the mirror.

Is there too much BLAME in this hobby when something goes wrong?

  • Yes

    Votes: 263 56.1%
  • No

    Votes: 89 19.0%
  • Not sure

    Votes: 117 24.9%

  • Total voters
    469

littlebigreef

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I look at the Scammer's page on FB and I shake my head. There's a lot of scummy people out there but its also pretty obvious when someone is trying to take advantage of you by sending messed up fish or coral.

As someone who buys, sells and trades zoas you take it for granted that not everything is going to work out. If I bat .800 on new zoa additions I feel like I'd doing a good job... and that's with me failing 20% of the time. So, I've come to expect and accept the fact that sometimes stuff just doesn't work out. However, I've also received boxes with the heat pack in the wet bag, no cool pack on hot days, under filled boxes with stuff flopping around and perhaps most annoyingly undersized boxes with heat packs. If the coral doesn't survive... yeah, that's on the shipper and they'll hear about it.

Fortunately, I've never had a charge back or had to do one. Very nearly everyone I've ever worked with has been on the level. So, if something doesn't work out, it's my fault, or 'just the way it goes'. If you approach people in a respectful way and bring issues to their attention right away most people will admit their mistakes.

Generally speaking there's a learning curve. If you're serious about this hobby you make your mistakes up front and you either develop your skill set, and most importantly your ability to research, or you don't. The people that don't never seem to get out of gear. The people the do go on to make different, hopefully less serious mistakes.
 

Indytraveler83

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I see a lot of people volunteering that they blame themselves. And I can't disagree. But to expand on my prior point:

If the product is junk or the animal is sick, it's also good to place blame on both the process or supplier.

Don't order sick fish, have them die and blame yourself. Why were they sick? Does this supplier use poor practices? Does the lfs use the cheapest they can, and don't care about sick fish?

Don't support or buy products that are garbage. I used to love Marineland in my freshwater days, but their bulletproof filters have gone downhill. I stopped buying from them.

I recently had a batch of fish die within 24 hrs of getting them. I didnt "blame" per say, but the situation was unacceptable and I'm not going to throw money and lives away as the "cost" of the hobby.

In this case I talked to the lfs, we both discussed our process at length, both discovered and implimented improvements, and then we try again. IMO that's how "blame" should be handled.
 

Quietman

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Who else am I going to hold responsible beside myself? It's my tank.

I pick the fish, check if they're healthy, medicate or not, quarantine or not, pick the vendors, pick the equipment, do the installations, perform the maintenance, make the food, identify the issues, fix what I can, ask for help when I need it, decide on the advice I should follow, or ignore, decide how much to spend and when to buy what I need, pick the test equipment, do the tests, decide if I need to redo the tests, decide on what monitoring or backup systems I need.

If I fail...it's on me.

If I succeed, that was a team effort with everyone who's helped me, shipped to me, replace faulty gear for me, and provided the excellent products and service I rely on.
 

flsalty

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Stuff happens. If it happened because of something I did wrong then I blame myself. If a piece of equipment fails I see that as something that just happens. If a piece of equipment fails and crashes my tank then it's my fault for not setting things up properly or a failure to observe quickly. That's why I shy away from too much automation.
 

cancun

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Great topic Rev!!!!! Everyone had great comments and most mirrored my thoughts. I have to say many years ago when I started in this hobby I was so happy to have all of you on R2R!!!

I have several good LFS near me....when I say good I mean healthy live stock, clean tanks, and a great relationship with the owners of each one. Unfortunately though as others have said on here I see new people go in all the time and buy whatever or asks questions and they are given mis information. That was one lesson I learned early on...do your own research....and when you think you can't research any more....keep researching. LOL! Rely on yourself....after all you are the one caring for your animals in your tank.
 

thaveteran

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While all this is true whose fault is it if a certain piece of equipment fails do to loss of internet connectivity. You have it wired straight to the modem nothing else loses connection why does this piece of equipment always lose connection? And while it loses connection it automatically shuts off equipment , ends up crashing you tank and their is no settings you can change to stop it. Would this be your fault or the equipment?

I would say this would still be my fault. I don't plug my return pump into controllers, I also only plug half my powerheads into them. Anytime we allow one source to be able to fail and crash our entire systems that's on us. Or at least that's how I see it. It's my own fault.
 

KleineVampir

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I find this a very odd question. Who else do we have to blame other than ourselves and our own inexperience? Surely the amount of situations where somebody else is actually responsible for a problem in your tank are in the tiniest minority.
 

BrandonS

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Bottom line blaming others only works so long. Eventually you run out of other things to blame.

Specific to the hobby if you want to stay in it you have to figure it out. And many times it comes down to the one taking care of things. I don't think many long term hobiests blame other more than themselves. Blaming others is a quick way out of the hobby.

When I got into aquariums years ago it was with freshwater. I kept killing guppies. At first I blamed PetSmart. I really wanted to have a good tank so I did a Google search. Learned I had no idea what a cycle was or any idea about nitrogen. Happy to say I am still in the hobby and don't kill nearly as many fish as I used to.

You can't last in anything if you always blame others. Figure it out and the blame falls where it falls.
 

Roosterjack

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I didn't read every reply so forgive if this has been brought up...sometimes it comes down to bad luck. The vendor can check all the boxes, you can do everything by the numbers and it still fails. This is especially true with livestock. Sometimes they just die.
 

charlesk

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This topic is more about society than reefing IMHO. People don’t want to be responsible for their own actions.

In my tank, if and when something goes bad I investigate. Depending on the results of my investigation I find what the cause was to my problem.

Apart from equipment failure, most problems would be my fault. I just need to figure out what I did wrong and fix it. Also to add, some equipment failure might just be my fault as well. If I didn’t do preventive maintenance, the failure is on me.
I absolutely agree. Most everything that happens in your life are your responsibility. People who don’t take responsibility are cowards. Stop being a wimp.
 

Anchor

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Hmm this is a tough subject for me as I have been married twice.. :)

A fish, product, service should come with some reasonable expectation of success along with it.

If a company is willing to sell you something it should be noted that success should come with it.

If they sell you Junk, THEY should take the blame for their junk.
Some caveats I have....

Every LFS sells sick fish. I expect them to be sick as they can only be trusted (in my mind) to try to make a profit for themselves. The Good LFS/Companies looks at you with the hope of being able to attract more of your money and not less. If they want to make that profit, they should be taking care of the customer and not taking advantage as it will eventually come back to bite them in the **** for NOT giving the due respect we, as customers, should get. This is not to say that their are not abusive and stupid customers, that respect should be 2 sided and not one. Why should someone who sold you a fish take the blame for you dropping a fish or coral into a tank with known differences (temp, food, parameters, too new, etc.), in other words, how far should they be responsible for the customers ignorance. How long does it take and how much training does the person selling something need to spend to erase that ignorance? Keep in mind, I know some people choose to be ignorant (is ignorant too strong) and solely blame others for their problems. I know that in most cases, (I will say 90%) it is our own problem and not someone elses. Go back and see.. The take responsibility for selling junk. Vicious circle.. ,who wins this one? For instance, I have a heart attack and need a stent placement, How much time do I get while laying on the operating table to determine if the Dr. is using a reputable stent or a junk one? Shouldn't rules be assigned across the board and not to just one industry or another? Self policing works in the long run.. But at what price is the customer expected to pay first?

So my answer to the original question.. Yes there is too much blaming.. BUT, I think most of it is justified. Which means.. someone is selling too much junk to ignorant people...
 

ccombs

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I pretty much always blame myself lol. At the end of the day we are responsible for every reefing decision in our tank, and good leaders take responsibility for everything under them, even if it is not technically their fault.
 

Fourstars

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Such a good point! I’ve thought this more then once when it comes to complaining about hardware failing. We are dealing with salt water! Also, if you are having livestock shipped from halfway around the world you need to take a little responsibility.
 

ccombs

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I pretty much always blame myself lol. At the end of the day we are responsible for every reefing decision in our tank, and good leaders take responsibility for everything under them, even if it is not technically their fault.
I am going to reply to myself here lol. I will state this- I have been very disappointed with the minimum acceptable standard in aquarium equipment. I come from a failure is not an option career, so I have been longing for better and more robust products in our hobby.
 
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