THE BLAME GAME: Are we too quick to blame others? Maybe we should look in the mirror.

[clffthmps]

Now don't get mad at me on this one. I've thought about this one for a while, put it on a list, but never posted it because I didn't want it to go off the rails so to speak! But I think we're all adult enough to discuss this topic without it getting personal. So let me preface this with that. Let's keep names, company names, political affiliation, political terms etc. out of this topic please. Ok here we go...

I'm guilty first and foremost. When something goes bad in life that the first reaction is often to look for blame outside of ourselves. Now let's apply that to reefing. Something goes bad, tank crashes, algae takes over, fish dies, whatever it may be, we look to blame. We look to blame the vendor, we look to blame the product, we look to blame the equipment and seldom does it dawn on us that we may be the one to blame. Maybe you went to fast, maybe you didn't buy the right equipment, maybe you didn't acclimate properly, maybe your light settings are terrible, maybe you missed a step, etc! Maybe, maybe, maybe...

WARNING: Before you read the next line, PUT YOUR BIG KID PANTS ON!

Let's talk about this today and hopefully learn to take a look in the mirror before we go blaming others for mistakes that may very well be our own. It's unhealthy to always blame others and live with a victim's mentality. Maybe we can grow from this discussion! So the question is this.

In this hobby are we too quick to blame others, or other things when something goes wrong? What are your thoughts?

I will Have to agree sometimes we as hobbyist do miss things that we should put more effort towards. I couldn’t agree more.But sometimes the ones who are dependent on vendors and sponsors should sometimes put the blame on them. They are the ones that are promoting their products, And depending on us as hobbyist to purchase them. We all know that not all products are equal. You sometime get what you pay for and sometimes you don’t.It is what it is...

 

[StatelineReefer]

I see your point but there are rare times when the results of something going bad could be the responsibility of someone else. Do you agree with that?

I cannot agree with this. Unless someone breaks into your house to introduce an organism into your tank (Please break into my house and introduce more acros into my tank) only the reefkeeper is responsible for what happens inside their own artificial ecosystem. Quarantine and stability management protocols are imperative in this hobby, as is a watchful eye, and educating yourself on your purchases and their interactions with other species.

A great deal of time and effort goes into helping people who did not follow a quarantine or stability protocol. We hear it after the fact as 'I got dinos' or 'My corals suddenly bleached and I dont know why' but it boils down to knowledge, effort, and preparation. If either of those three are found wanting, there is no other place to blame.

A fish has ich. Proper quarantine treats this. It is not the fish store's responsibility to treat it for you. Sorry... I said it... IT IS NOT SOMEBODY ELSES PROBLEM. YOU took on the responsibility the second you purchased that animal.

A coral has signs of good growth in the store or at the vendor. You bring it home and toss it in the display tank... it has vibrio or aefw. Your display tank looks like an earthquake in a graveyard in two days... that's on you.

Sorry guys, but it's a true fact. Most tank problems, theres only one person to blame.

 

[sfairtx]

It was MY choice to start reefing. It was MY choice to do or not do the research. It was MY choice to listen or not listen to experienced reefers. It was MY money that took live animals and organisms out of their environment and into my artificial ocean. It is MY choice every single day how I prioritize the reef in my schedule to make sure I maintain what needs to be maintained. Everything happens in my reef, good or bad, because of my actions or inactions. I would note this includes the massive amounts of plastic, styrofoam, and carbon emissions that are used to ship said organisms (the very things that threaten our planet and oceans). Reefing is one BIG mirror.

 

[Eva Rose]

I see your point but there are rare times when the results of something going bad could be the responsibility of someone else. Do you agree with that?

I definitely agree. In any hobby/business where a lot of money can be made there will be some unscrupulous people who seek to profit by preying on people’s good faith.
I lost fish in a circumstance where I had purchased a tank & high quality equipment. I purchased from a source I looked into & had talked to references as well.
So should I blame myself for a manufacturing defect - absolutely not! Did I? Yes emotionally I did. It was devastating.
I think we need to look at this in a broader perspective, that at the end of the day we are not 100% to blame in every situation. I did take the responsibility in my particular situation to contact the company & tell them they should perform a recall. So you can be not at fault. But you then have a responsibility to take action to try & prevent that situation happening to someone else.

 

[MurphyJ]

In this hobby are we too quick to blame others, or other things when something goes wrong? What are your thoughts?

Oh I always know it’s me. That is why I keep a log so I can find the error of my ways.

 

[living_tribunal]

I’ve noticed a major lack of taking responsibility from a few others in this hobby. Most pony up and realize they are the reason something went wrong but there are definitely a few vocal others that want to blame the coral, blame the livestock vendor, blame the equipment manufacturer, blame their mom, etc.

There is also a lot of people who blame something specific without ever investigating what the real catalyst issue that stirred the issue.

It is a difficult hobby and I understand where frustrations stem from but wish some were more curious about the specifics.

 

[sp1187]

Pointing the finger doesn't fix anything.

 

[living_tribunal]

Their is information, then their is false information. Sorting that out is the challenge in this hobby. I probably blame myself to quickly sometime before investigating what went wrong. Blaming someone else or yourself, regardless of what you chose, whats done is done and what you do to fix the issue is where you become a better person.

100% agree. There is so much incorrect info on here it’s very difficult to parse through. One of the biggest gripes I had when I started. I think the key is associating with a few reefers that you respect and will actually break things down into specifics for you.

I also think this shouldn’t be a blame others or blame myself kind of deal. Specific situations and catalysts cause issues in this hobby, not people. We may be the one to add/remove the catalyst but instead of blaming any person, we need to learn to diagnose situations. There is simply too much hyperbole, anecdotes, and conjecture. Taking the time to solve problems instead of ignoring them and applying a band aid goes a very long way in this hobby.

 

[living_tribunal]

While all this is true whose fault is it if a certain piece of equipment fails do to loss of internet connectivity. You have it wired straight to the modem nothing else loses connection why does this piece of equipment always lose connection? And while it loses connection it automatically shuts off equipment , ends up crashing you tank and their is no settings you can change to stop it. Would this be your fault or the equipment?

The person failed for not accounting for it. If someone wants a fancy wifi system, they should also have a backup. Wifi goes down, this is a fact of life.

 

[living_tribunal]

Just blame me. It’s all my fault.

Done.

 

[Anchor]

I guess I have more to say...


Much of that question is dependent on a couple of things....
1. What is the experience level of the reefer.
2. How much money does that reefer have to spend.
3. What sources does a reefer use to research their purchases, if any.
4. I look at this from the perspective of a newer, less experienced, reefer. Do they even know what to look for?
If a person does not know all of the interactions within a reef, or any type of tank for that matter, How can they blame anyone but someone or something else? Using some of your own analogies or explanations, If I get run over by a semi on the freeway and killed (high alk spike), its my own fault for having driven on the freeway (been born a coral). Even the courts say this isn't true. So saying its my fault for making certain choices is kind of erroneous to me. Now I can make a different choice in what I drive to survive a semi but how do I know to ask that question even, when I go to buy a vehicle? We could all Drive Semi's but that is not practical. We make assumptions that everyone is a safe driver and knows not to get in the way of a semi. In spite of our most altruistic desires, (no such thing as altruism) we tend to blame someone or something else.

Yes, we made the choice to take up reefing. But, without someone to propagate that interest, and sell us our stuff, we cannot always be blamed for the outcomes we get. Other than equipment and livestock, WE are to blame for the environment. Yes, we are to blame for the environment we keep things in and keeping it stable. But lack of information is going to kill a lot of stuff. Who here can claim to have never been Uninformed or misinformed in thier reefkeeping?

OMG I am getting philosophical.. SOMEONE STOP MEEEE!!! (I don't mean ban me either)

 

[ScottR]

Done.

Thanks. Feels better donut?

 

[Homewrecker]

Usually the second something goes wrong people start blaming the salt LOL

 

[living_tribunal]

Thanks. Feels better donut?

A little bit, a little bit.

 

[krash7172]

I think there is a personality type that can drive blame. There are of course variables outside of your control that can set you up for success or failure but there is a victim mentally that far too many people have. I manage a small group of people and it amazes me how the same people always have issues and never accept responsibility for their own actions, decisions and situation. These people complain about the weather, politics, wages and yet they can't even show up for work on time and there is always a lame excuse. They would not make successful reefers

 

[StatelineReefer]

Using some of your own analogies or explanations, If I get run over by a semi on the freeway and killed (high alk spike), its my own fault for having driven on the freeway (been born a coral). Even the courts say this isn't true. So saying its my fault for making certain choices is kind of erroneous to me. Now I can make a different choice in what I drive to survive a semi but how do I know to ask that question even, when I go to buy a vehicle? We could all Drive Semi's but that is not practical. We make assumptions that everyone is a safe driver and knows not to get in the way of a semi. In spite of our most altruistic desires, (no such thing as altruism) we tend to blame someone or something else.

Let's break down your analogy... step by step.

If you get run over by a semi on the freeway and killed...

Let's pause there. Likening this to a high alk spike as you have. So were you driving the wrong direction on the freeway? (Intentionally raising alk without checking the parameter beforehand) Speeding? (Raising alk too quickly with additives) Texting on the phone while driving backwards in a school zone? (Taking LFS advice)

In these instances, the courts are clear on blame, as with reefing. In these instances, there is NO... OTHER... PERSON... to blame.

There are causes to high alk spikes... nothing is without precedent in reefing. But let's correct your analogy, as you portray it.

So you have a driver, one who is prone to getting hit by 18 wheelers.
We're going to assume it's a new driver, because why not.
This new driver would have had to have taken driving lessons, whether at school, or at the very least taught in some manner.
Being taught means there are rules... we'll call them "Parameters".
Parameter 1. Vehicle speed. Let's call this alkalinity.
Parameter 2. Direction of travel. We'll call this Flow.
Parameter 3. Lane usage. We'll liken this to calcium.
Parameter 4. Driving surface. We'll liken this to Nitrates, PO4, and other byproducts of the tank.

So, we know we want to travel, we put our seat belt on. Our seat belt, in this case, is preparedness... In case of a crash... knowing what to do when it happens.
We want to travel to the fish store... don't we always? I hear they have new frags in. So we start the car (Cycle our tank) put it into gear (Complete the nitrate cycle and add livestock) and back out of the driveway (allow our tank to begin maturing).

Along the way to the fish store, we know there are intersections (Things to look out for to ensure we do not crash our tanks.) and we also know the direction to the fish store, because other people have told us how to get there (Numerous message boards, books galore, and good old fashioned research).

We, as normal human beings, also seem to want to get to the fish store REALLY FAST these days... So we don't watch our vehicle speed as much as the people around us...(Not monitoring alk, or checking only when there's a problem) or, conversely, we obsess over how fast we're going, and slow down a lot. (Focusing on numbers instead of the health of the tank itself)

We may think that there is a better way to get to the fish store than everyone elses way, and so we'll turn two blocks early to see if there's a shortcut (neglecting flow, ignoring the needs of a particular organism for the sake of the others)

While we're driving, there are lines in the road, we want to stay between them for our sake, and our passengers sake... (Calcium to alkalinity ratio)

Finally, we want to stay on the road itself... Rather than driving through mud and backyards. (PO4, Nitrates, and water changes)

So, if as a new reefer... I mean driver... if I ignore all the warning signs around me, drive on the opposite side of the road, speeding, cross over a high school football field, and run head on into a semi, do I get to complain that the semi driver was in my way?

 

[Humblefish]

Pointing the finger doesn't fix anything.

True, but letting others know of both your positive & negative experiences with a company, product, etc. helps to guide their steps. When a consensus builds we know which ones to rely upon, and which ones to avoid. For any company getting the finger, do whatever it takes to get the thumbs up instead.

 

[Anchor]

Let's break down your analogy... step by step.

If you get run over by a semi on the freeway and killed...

Let's pause there. Likening this to a high alk spike as you have. So were you driving the wrong direction on the freeway? (Intentionally raising alk without checking the parameter beforehand) Speeding? (Raising alk too quickly with additives) Texting on the phone while driving backwards in a school zone? (Taking LFS advice)

Much Zipping done to save some space.... But it is a great line.. Nicely thought out.

Well, I get your points but you went beyond what I was saying.... or at least trying to say... My semi point was.. if you get run over by one.. is it your fault for being on the freeway.. You could say the same for almost anything.. is it your fault for existing.. Everything one does has an opportunity cost I guess.. Your sources of info can have an effect on what you do. Additionally, How long you take to get that info makes a difference too.. So, taking LFS advice in your book.. by what you wrote, is bad advice generally, if I am to take your analogy at face value..

What I think I was trying to get across is that.. blame needs to go where it comes from, at least until a person can get educated. Blame needs to go where it comes from until the person understands what has been taught. After that, (a year to a year and a half) it should all fall on the reefkeeper, barring equipment failure within a product warranty period??? The only way I guess I could put blame entirely on the reefkeeper is if one believes wanting something puts you at blame. If bad information is unrecognizable by the layman does that make it their fault? It is philosophical in nature at that point..

Trying to think of a more relavent point.. OH.. PO4.. we not too long ago thought it should be zero. Now more recently the findings are hey.. maybe if shouldn't be so close to zero. Does the development of new information negating the old mean, the old info was to blame or the industries thinking? Is it the reefkeepers fault for believing that old information to be correct and then failing due to the outcomes of incorrect information widely believed to have been right? Who is to blame then? Still the reefkeeper for educating themselves properly and following bad info?. I guess blaming only ones self is a little finite, not that I am ready to blame anyone one for my reefing problems.. but I do think exception to self only are there.

Rene Decartes said "I think therefore I am" Reefing Coralary "I reef therefore I am --- ummm, to blame"

 

[Mark Novack]

I take full responsibility for my mistakes and the biggest one I make is believing that bacterial start additives will create an instant biotope when I know that the only right way is a 6 week run in or even better letting all the diatom/algae stages finish naturally.

 

[vetteguy53081]

The blame game for me comes in three aspects:
Most stores try their best to meet needs of their customers BUT when they’re having a bad month- they tend to push products and bad advise to produce a sale.
- On our very own marketplace, many of us pack well or to the best of our ability to have shippers stuff our packages with other’s thereby causing damage and we get the blame and hit with a refund process due to negligence after paying what are exorbitant shipping costs.
- When we get defective product from an LFS and return to them irate because there is an issue with item. We have to remember that they sell the item and do not make the item posing same risk when we order an item online.