The BRS 160: 10 Weeks of the Triton Method | BRStv Investigates

[Ryanbrs]

And no filter socks to wash.
Which leads me to the question: some folks cannot comprehend a tank without water changes let alone a tank without mechanical filtration & no water changes to boot.
Quote Triton - "Triton does not recommended the use of filter socks/floss as they remove benificial ingredients that algae require.
Ryan, can you elaborate a bit more on this, ie, what are these "benificial ingredients" that algae require besides nitrogen & phosphate?

cheers

I would have to check but I think they claim the socks remove particles which are beneficial to the corals, not the algae. Kind of like a natural pray replacement.

 

[Gerhardus Bergh]

The only two trade offs I can see are cost and labor. Triton obviously kicks labor in the butt. If the cost of the Triton method proves to be not much more than doing water changes or better yet cheaper, then I'm all in. Has anyone actually done a true cost comparison?

No but you got me thinking... I'll be looking into that for sure.

 

[waxhawreefer]

I think it is wise to challenge anything new like this. Like anything it has it's flaws. I think the question is does it add enough value to justify the cost and effort? I don't know the answers to all your questions but based off what I have read I can take a shot at a few.

1. I believe ICP is designed or at least in this case configured to test very low levels of elements and is less accurate with higher levels. Meaning it may not be the best tool for calcium and magnesium because +/- 10% 400 could mean 360 to 440.
2. I wouldn't test your test kit against a checker or against a ICP test. The hobby grade test kit and your procedure could easily be off +/- 10% . The only thing that would be accurate is testing against a standard.
3. The ICP in many causes is testing into the parts per billion and for some elements pretty accurate and for others less so. However, collectivly across all elements is much more accurate than a complete mystery or lack of knowledge.
4. I would wager the differences between the different ICP test providers out there is the machine itself, how it is configured, knowing and following proper procedure, cleaning, machine care and general benefits that come with time, expertise and related learning curve.

I know we all want lab-level accuracy with our test kits, checkers, and ICP but almost no one is willing to pay it so we have to understand all of these things are simply designed to get us close or into an acceptable range where the corals will thrive. I think we can get totally lost trying to identify perfection and absolute accuracy or we can use the tools as designed which is to get us close. Just like selecting a brand of test kit, I think you are likely best off using a team who has demonstrated competence in that field for a prolonged period of time and seems dedicated to the process. The overnight "me toos" and lowest cost options may be just as good but if they are giving different readings you have to decide who is worthy of your trust.

You make great points, but honestly, like Triton is new to the states, it’s not in Europe, either is ATI or Aquaforest, I would bet there ICP testing machines are pretty much identical , I thought to be totally honest , u guys could compare ICP tests, since this thread has started, I watched the video with mike paletta, he abandoned the Triton method after a year, I think Sanjay also, if there is anyone who knows reef tanks, it’s those two, just hope that beautiful 160 fares well!

 

[IronChefItaly]

This type of feedback is often the most valuable and I appreciate it because it keeps us sharp and focused. It is very hard to clearly demonstrate the advantages of one approach without it coming across as validation that it is a better way than others. It's also very difficult to stop and weigh each option against all the other options out there, I think that's better done on the forums here : ) Our focus has always been to provide as much data on a piece of gear or approach as possible in a single topic and let the reefer use that information to make up their own decsions on what suits them their needs the best.

I will say one method is always better than another but that is based on thorough consideration of the individual's goals, space, budget, time and overall desires for the tank. Sometimes I will outright say I love this thing or method and it is straight up the best but more often we are just exploring the claimed benefits and identifying if they are real.

I think it is obvious that Triton matches many of my individual desires and the approach makes theoretical sense to me but we are going to challenge that in the upcoming months by not only following Triton and the 160 but I think we are also going to develop some similar approaches and follow those as well : )

I agree and I'm completely satisfied with all of your points. After all, your videos largely shaped much of my own approach to reef keeping.

That all sounds great, I'm currently using the Red Sea Program (as recommended by your product spotlights) and I'm really happy with it. As for Triton, I think the ICP testing is really cool and I couldn't be more in favor of their holistic refugium approach. I'll definitely be following the implementation on the BRS160 and if all goes well it will be a strong consideration for my dream tank.

Thank you very much for taking the time to respond. The BRS team continues to be one of the biggest influences for educating and advancing all our practices, keep it up!

 

[TRNANCE]

I really love all of the BRS videos and BRS has always been our go to place when ordering equipment and supplies, They are always willing to take time and answer any questions that you have and as a newbie I have a lot of questions. I am really looking forward to seeing how the Triton method works out and I appreciate that you suggest people not just jump into this without weighting all the options so with that said I will be keeping up with this just as I did with the 160 52 weeks series. I am really interested in the Triton method and I hope you guys get great results.
I also wanted to add that I love the part about the LED lights and you are so right about tweaking the lights as we have done that too may times.
Thanks for all you guys do, it is much appreciated.

 

[TbyZ]

I really love all of the BRS videos and BRS has always been our go to place when ordering equipment and supplies, They are always willing to take time and answer any questions that you have and as a newbie I have a lot of questions. I am really looking forward to seeing how the Triton method works out and I appreciate that you suggest people not just jump into this without weighting all the options so with that said I will be keeping up with this just as I did with the 160 52 weeks series. I am really interested in the Triton method and I hope you guys get great results.
I also wanted to add that I love the part about the LED lights and you are so right about tweaking the lights as we have done that too may times.
Thanks for all you guys do, it is much appreciated.

I appreciate BRS' honesty & openess. I'd imagine other retailers would (quitely to themselvs) consider running the Triton no water change test a conflict of interest to their business model.
I trust BRS, & this is why I started the thread https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/p...ox-0-8-v-purigen-comparison-test-poll.332949/

System organics export would be high on my list in a no water change system. Its a pity my thread got such a poor response.

 

[Ryanbrs]

You make great points, but honestly, like Triton is new to the states, it’s not in Europe, either is ATI or Aquaforest, I would bet there ICP testing machines are pretty much identical , I thought to be totally honest , u guys could compare ICP tests, since this thread has started, I watched the video with mike paletta, he abandoned the Triton method after a year, I think Sanjay also, if there is anyone who knows reef tanks, it’s those two, just hope that beautiful 160 fares well!

Guess I will have to think about how you would go about confirming one is more accurate or atleast consistent than another and in a definitive manner worth sharing publicly. I have to say I have serious doubts the equipment, procedures and how exacting they are followed is uniform amongst all of the vendors. I am pretty certain the facilities these ICP tests are being run in ranges from a lab type environment to warehouse or even back of a local fish store. At least that is what the industry is sharing behind the scenes. I really don't think one is as good as the next and I think the inconstancies between the results support that to some degree.

In relation to others experiences, I certainly hope that is the value in all this. The community gets to watch and see the failure or success in real time and then use that as a data point for decisions on their owns tanks. I hope this is much more valuable than just trusting the sales pitch the manufactures give us

 

[Roggio]

I have been using the triton method for about two months as well with very good results. As the weather becomes colder I have shut the windows and my pH starts to drop. As a result my system then uses very little Alk , calcium, of magnesium. So if I cannot regularly replace trace elements because I have gone from dosing 9ml each bottle each day to 2ml or less every other day or more. Do I need to start water changes again or do I stick with the triton method and add only when needed based on testing?

I recently switched over to the Kessil 380 and it strongly impacts my PH. Maybe running these lights for longer hours in the winter would help? Your tank is consuming less because coral growth slows at a lower PH. IMO this makes the lights worthwhile. Depending on the distance and other variables you could run the air hose from your skimmer outside.

Great video @Ryanbrs @randyBRS

 

[bif24701]

Having followed BRS since I began the hobby, I've come to hold them to a certain standard for open-mindedness and a lack of bias when exploring different methods and techniques. While I still think much of the information in this video is fantastic and sheds a whole new light on reef keeping, I'm getting a sense in the more recent videos of a forceful push for certain products that go against those said principles.

I love the idea of no water changes and I think everyone does but the argument in this video seems very much one sided. I see the two different methods in very much the same light as two-part and a calcium reactor. Either method cannot be generalized as better than the other but rather the demand of a given system will make one choice more or less feasible than the other. In the case of water changes, I'll use my Red Sea Reefer 250 as an example. For the same cost as three Triton tests, I can buy three buckets of Red Sea salt. With those three buckets, I can do 10% weekly water changes and three consecutive 50% water changes twice over the course of a year. Surely, this argument only becomes stronger as your system volume decreases and weaker as the volume increases. Additionally, I think something can always be said for simplicity. While more laborious, water changes remains one of the simplest methods of obtaining NSW parameters and performing a system reset. To conclude, I feel this video and the others highlighting the Triton really fail to mention these points and bring a well-balanced educational video to the saltwater community that upholds BRS. I hope I don't sound too bitter or reluctant to change and would love others if of the same opinion to speak up and invite those who disagree to chime in.

As always, thanks for reading!

I started to get that feeling also, maybe this is kind of being pushed on is. However when Ryan from BRS repeatedly said and emphasized stability is king and if what you are doing works then keep it. When he said that all is forgiven and my respect for BRS not only validated but reached a higher point.

I don’t think we owe BRS anything for producing these videos but the same open mindedness that they have shown not only with the videos they produce but the responses to discussion right here in these forums.

 

[TbyZ]

Having followed BRS since I began the hobby, I've come to hold them to a certain standard for open-mindedness and a lack of bias when exploring different methods and techniques. While I still think much of the information in this video is fantastic and sheds a whole new light on reef keeping, I'm getting a sense in the more recent videos of a forceful push for certain products that go against those said principles.

I love the idea of no water changes and I think everyone does but the argument in this video seems very much one sided. I see the two different methods in very much the same light as two-part and a calcium reactor. Either method cannot be generalized as better than the other but rather the demand of a given system will make one choice more or less feasible than the other. In the case of water changes, I'll use my Red Sea Reefer 250 as an example. For the same cost as three Triton tests, I can buy three buckets of Red Sea salt. With those three buckets, I can do 10% weekly water changes and three consecutive 50% water changes twice over the course of a year. Surely, this argument only becomes stronger as your system volume decreases and weaker as the volume increases. Additionally, I think something can always be said for simplicity. While more laborious, water changes remains one of the simplest methods of obtaining NSW parameters and performing a system reset. To conclude, I feel this video and the others highlighting the Triton really fail to mention these points and bring a well-balanced educational video to the saltwater community that upholds BRS. I hope I don't sound too bitter or reluctant to change and would love others if of the same opinion to speak up and invite those who disagree to chime in.

As always, thanks for reading!

I believe your points for regular water changes are already well known & understood. In my view BRS are simply probing the altetnative.

 

[chris fullwood]

I have been running all of my fish tanks without regular water changes like Ryan says, only when an issue is indicated. I have a variety of trace and major element dosing. I have a a 75 Gallon, 38 Gallon bow front, both with sumps and a 40 breeder. The 75 Gallon is the tank with sps corals, which have grown at an astonishing rate. I dose bed 2 part with my ATI, the rest is with seachem, Kent’s essentials, and Red Sea. My tanks have been running 1yr, 2yrs and 6 months, for the sizes listed above. I’m posting this on my iPad, which doesn’t have my pictures, I can happily add some later though. I’m glad someone else had the same theories as I, and even more excited people like the brs team are doing it. Keep it up fellas

 

[MnFish1]

You make great points, but honestly, like Triton is new to the states, it’s not in Europe, either is ATI or Aquaforest, I would bet there ICP testing machines are pretty much identical , I thought to be totally honest , u guys could compare ICP tests, since this thread has started, I watched the video with mike paletta, he abandoned the Triton method after a year, I think Sanjay also, if there is anyone who knows reef tanks, it’s those two, just hope that beautiful 160 fares well!

There is no magic system. Everyone has something for sale. And 5 years later - something different will be offered for sale. Chemisty is chemistry. whether its called zeovit/triton/ or aqua forest (IMHO) and all is a bit of voodoo ( ie personal preference - as compared to 'the best way to do it).

 

[Jimbo662]

I'm waiting on delivery of a new tank which will hopefully be a mixed reef and seriously considering trying Triton from the beginning.

 

[Scott.h]

Having followed BRS since I began the hobby, I've come to hold them to a certain standard for open-mindedness and a lack of bias when exploring different methods and techniques. While I still think much of the information in this video is fantastic and sheds a whole new light on reef keeping, I'm getting a sense in the more recent videos of a forceful push for certain products that go against those said principles.

I love the idea of no water changes and I think everyone does but the argument in this video seems very much one sided. I see the two different methods in very much the same light as two-part and a calcium reactor. Either method cannot be generalized as better than the other but rather the demand of a given system will make one choice more or less feasible than the other. In the case of water changes, I'll use my Red Sea Reefer 250 as an example. For the same cost as three Triton tests, I can buy three buckets of Red Sea salt. With those three buckets, I can do 10% weekly water changes and three consecutive 50% water changes twice over the course of a year. Surely, this argument only becomes stronger as your system volume decreases and weaker as the volume increases. Additionally, I think something can always be said for simplicity. While more laborious, water changes remains one of the simplest methods of obtaining NSW parameters and performing a system reset. To conclude, I feel this video and the others highlighting the Triton really fail to mention these points and bring a well-balanced educational video to the saltwater community that upholds BRS. I hope I don't sound too bitter or reluctant to change and would love others if of the same opinion to speak up and invite those who disagree to chime in.

As always, thanks for reading!

The BRS marketing aside, It all depends on goals and money really. My wife and I both run separate businesses, along with our two kids heavy into sports, time has become more valuable to me then money. Having three systems, it got to the point where I'd basically put in an 8 hour day on Saturday dealing with all the work of the tanks. People always bring up cost benefits supposedly associated with triton as in that's the big goal - saving money. I can tell you that I have not changed any water in a long time. I've also probably went longer than most without doing a triton water test in-between. 2 tests since the end of May. I still use Salifert to test alkalinity every day or three. As I've said in the other threads, if you have a heavy bio load, or you are under filtered to where you have to still change water, the system would probably not be worth it. Most of the bottles last a long time. Some of the bottles you don't need to add, even if triton recommends it. I think I have about 10 bottles now. For me, even if triton cost more in the long run, which it hasn't, it's not a worry. Those 8 hour Saturday's are now about an hours worth of refilling ATO's, cleaning glass, emptying skimmer cups, and testing N and P to make sure both still exist.

I seen that you mentioned using the Red Sea ABCD kit. Anytime you throw in a combination of elements, you're going to get a build up overtime of some elements, and a depletion of other elements. Long-term you can see potential issues with this.

 

[Spotted]

Will the Triton method work with a turf scrubber in place of a larger refugium? I don't really have the room for a 10% refugium. How does using an ATS effect the Triton method?

 

[bh750]

Ok so just caught up on all of the refugium and chaeto videos. Can you let me know if I have this part right regarding Refugium and the Triton method?

- size approx 20% of total system (or 30%?)

- flow ideally 10x total system volume through the fuge per hour

- lighting with proper spectrum

- 12 hour reverse photoperiod schedule

Do I have that right?

 

[Ryanbrs]

Will the Triton method work with a turf scrubber in place of a larger refugium? I don't really have the room for a 10% refugium. How does using an ATS effect the Triton method?

I asked them this and to some degree, it will, but this question gets to the heart of why today's era of "systems and methods" is valuable. There is a reason why for each element of a system.

Turf scrubber will remove nutrients but the scrubber algae is designed to be scraped and harvested whereas Triton promotes letting the algae in the bottom of the fuge die off to release nutrients, carbohydrates and amino's into the tank. Since a scrubber gets the co2 from the surrounding air rather than the tank water, it won't have the same beneficial increase in PH.

So you could use a scrubber but there will likly be slower growth related to the lower PH and availble nuttrients.

 

[Ryanbrs]

Ok so just caught up on all of the refugium and chaeto videos. Can you let me know if I have this part right regarding Refugium and the Triton method?

- size approx 20% of total system (or 30%?)

- flow ideally 10x total system volume through the fuge per hour

- lighting with proper spectrum

- 12 hour reverse photoperiod schedule

Do I have that right?

The minimum is 10%

 

[Shameless_Dood]

I've been running the Triton method for just over a year, I am by no means a pro at it. Now keep in mind that's two different tanks, one crashed (August in Texas with no AC for a couple days tends to be bad), so I upgraded to a 150. So a couple thoughts on the things I've read here.

1. Every time I read one of these threads people always bring up the cost of this method. While I have not kept track of costs, I do think it's less cost, but that's just me, but probably not by a lot. If you think about it, you aren't buying salt, and you most likely are already buying supplements, you are just changing which ones you are buying. Sure there's the costs of tests, but once you get things settled out you can test less. More often is always better so that you are informed of what's going on in your tank. I don't think this method has ever been marketed as "cheaper". While I can appreciate doing a cost / benefit analysis of everything in this hobby, this is not the hobby to be cheap. Trust me I am the king of cheap. What kills me with the Triton method is buying the various supplements the tests suggest. A couple of them I've only had to dose very little and only once.

2. It bears mentioning again, but the REAL benefit is your time in my opinion. My daily tasks take me about 5-8 minutes (56 minutes a week roughly), test Alk, feed, and quick visual inspection of equipment. If I was doing weekly water changes, add in the time to make RO water (or going to the LFS to buy water), time to mix it up and match the salinity, set everything up to do your water change, do the water change, clean up etc....you are easily doubling the time each week, if not more. Can I tell you how many arguments I had with my wife because we had to plan around time for me to do a water change?

I'm spending more time looking at my tank and enjoying it now, which isn't that the whole point?

 

[Antics]

I'm curious how much detritus accumulates in Triton sumps without mechanical filtration? If you don't regularly do water changes what happens to all of the sediment?