The current science behind attempting to save coral reefs
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LARedstickreefer
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I wonder how much better a coral from one of our tanks could endure the ocean than a wild colony?
Corals in our tanks withstand so much worse than the ocean can throw at them. I bet we could save the reefs by putting our frags into the ocean.
Corals in our tanks withstand so much worse than the ocean can throw at them. I bet we could save the reefs by putting our frags into the ocean.
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Brian1f1
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We unfortunately may collectively represent the broadest stock of coral biodiversity on the planet in the not too distant future. That’s an indescribable shame (it will be but a sliver of what’s lost), and strange to think about...
Sad to think our hobby may be out of existence if the world continues to see dying reefs. I sure hope we figure something out.. I think people are taking climate change and global warming more seriously compared to previous years. Still a long way to go..
LARedstickreefer
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This could give us a whole new justification for reefing 
A very noble cause!
I know that to survive in MY tank, you got to be an OG and be accustomed to the ThugLife.
“Whoops, got Celsius and Fahrenheit mixed up again...”
A very noble cause!I know that to survive in MY tank, you got to be an OG and be accustomed to the ThugLife.
“Whoops, got Celsius and Fahrenheit mixed up again...”
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Brian1f1
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People might be, our current U.S. regime is actively destroying the already woefully inadequate protections that were in place and/or were slated to be in place. That’s just the sad truth.
Yeah, not to get into politics, but that’s probably the biggest thing i disagree with with the current administration. Hopefully the amount of growing private sector opportunities counter the lack of EPA standards we’re seeing. Who knows, in the next or following election, either democrat or republican, there may be a complete 180 as to the level of importance the climate has in politics. Only time will tell..
Climate will only play a bigger role in politics as time moves on. It's not going to magically fix itself. The clean air act was extremely effective. It's not realistic to think that humans don't play a major role in climate change. Any "evidence" that says otherwise is sponsored by oil and coal companies and others who stand to profit more from resisting the science.
Aside from all that, I wonder if it would be realistic to repopulate the ocean with coral from the average aquarist. Fish and corals are regional. The animals in my tank are from all over. It wouldn't be natural to just make our own giant mixed reef in the ocean. It's fun to think about. Just huck so much euphyllia into the ocean and watch it take off. Everyone loves Euphyllia(except neighboring corals).
Crashjack
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Doesn't scientific method dictate that coral bleaching, specifically caused by a slow rise in average temperature, be repeatable in a controlled environment (like a reef tank)? It's odd that every time someone touts a method or product to enhance a reef tank, people cry foul in the name of science, claiming those results can't be consistently repeated. However, when countless reef tanks run with high temperatures and crazy temperature swings, don't suffer the same major bleaching occurrences that happen on some reefs, it is irrelevant because scientific method just doesn't apply when someone wants to claim "climate change". I guess "science" only applies when it doesn't infringe on political correctness.
Do you have any science to back this up? I don't really treat my tank like a science experiment. I'm too inconsistent with testing, and I'm always changing things that I don't record. I'm sure some folks here do, but they usually keep parameters that are as close to NSW as possible because as hobbyists we try to keep our animals alive rather than see what kind of stress they can handle. Actual scientists probably do have this kind of data in a controlled environment in addition to the actual ocean. Having your heater get stuck "on" is not a simulation of climate change.
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Brian1f1
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A whole lot of just plain wrong and/or misunderstanding of the basic facts of the scientific method here... I’ll try to address at least some of them.
1. “Scientific method” does not dictate anything, it’s simply a means to test hypotheses.
2. Coral bleaching isn’t necessarily caused by a slow rise in oceanic temperatures (which isn’t happening), or even necessarily by rapid temperature rise alone, although the geologically meteoric and unprecedented (again, on the geologic time scale) increase in ocean temps is certainly a main driver of it. Nothing happens in a vacuum. Too high temps, far too quickly, often paired with high carbonic acid levels, myriad acute and chronic chemical pollution, over-fishing, silt/runoff, fertilizer runoff, dredging, large plastic pollution, and worse yet, micro plastic pollution, and more, all interact with each other. Depending on the coral species and the relative strength and presence of these factors you might get bleaching/disease events and low or high odds of recovery (although, for pseudoscience, I’d challenge you to try running your reef at 93 degrees for a month or so, if I wasn’t a nice guy, but I am, so don’t).
3. Random, undocumented, utterly uncontrolled, short lived temperature spikes in aquaria that don’t produce bleaching events in a random but select few species of coral, with random lighting, flow, water chemistry, disease presence or lack of disease, nutrients, health histories, and so on and so forth is about as far away from proving anything via the scientific method as one can possibly get.
4. Read the article I posted. You’ll see that scientist are actively using the scientific method to select for climate change hardier coral strains. Indeed, they are going a step further and engaging in something called selective evolution, literally attempting to mine the oceans for coral gametes to combine that just might be capable of surviving in the anthropocene.
5. The scientific method most certainly applies to climate change. Precious little else so globally consequential has been so rigorously subjected to the method, and the data has been overwhelmingly consistent, clear (if one cares to acknowledge it), and terrifying.
6. “Science” applies when the scientific method is understood, executed, and the data has been dispassionately interpreted. Doubly so when it’s been mountains of consistent data over decades, case in point, the data supporting climate change. The data is apolitical, and much the same as me, it does not care, even a little bit, whether it suits your, or anyone else’s, vision of political correctness. It simply is, and therefore you must become scientifically literate, engage in the battle to save the planet, or simply take your dog out of the fight and get out of the way, because at that point you can’t or won’t allow yourself to see what’s right in front of your nose. We haven’t got time for that anymore.
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Crashjack
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When I was in the hobby mid 90s - early/mid 2000s, one of my tanks was an in-wall 75 gal with MHs and PCs for lighting, and during the summer the temperature varied from around 80-84 deg F daily, with higher temperatures on hotter days. I did what I could with fans, but that was as cool as I could get it. There was also a thought at the time by a lot of reefers, that higher temperatures were better, and the typical 77-78 deg F was too cool. Point being, a lot of people have run warm tanks, probably mostly because they don’t have a good way to keep cooler in warmer months, and they do so with no ill effects. If in fact a small, slow, temperature increase (e.g. global warming) was the cause of massive bleaching events, reefers should be running into temperature induced tank crashes left and right (e.g. massive coral bleaching caused by abnormally high temperatures should be repeated in hobbyists reef tanks all over the place).
Because it is so politically expedient to blame everything on global warming, other, potentially more likely problems might be ignored, which isn’t good for coral reefs or the environment. Furthermore, challengers to the global warming holocaust are either ignored or attacked so the only exposure one gets to the subject is via the militant “climate police”, which is by design (sort of like how late night television is designed to cram certain politics down everybody’s throats). I didn’t trust man made global warning because I lived through the Freon-induced hole in the ozone layer that was torpedoing us into another ice age. After I saw the renaming of “man made global warming” to “global warming” and then “climate change”, i realized the new names were likely adopted because they sounded better to certain focus groups, and/or were just easier to pitch... smells more like propaganda than science to me.
I realize that the climate changes. I’m just not convinced man has much if anything to do with it, and knowing there have been warmer and cooler climates, I’m not sure how much it matters. Oh, I realize the Chicken Littles have all sorts of reasons as to why this warming event is different than every other warming or cooling event in the history of the earth. I’m just not sure I buy it, but I didn’t buy the global cooling scare decades ago, and I even called hogwash on the catastrophic earthquake that was supposed to completely destroy Memphis, TN, back in the late 80s so what do I know.
Because it is so politically expedient to blame everything on global warming, other, potentially more likely problems might be ignored, which isn’t good for coral reefs or the environment. Furthermore, challengers to the global warming holocaust are either ignored or attacked so the only exposure one gets to the subject is via the militant “climate police”, which is by design (sort of like how late night television is designed to cram certain politics down everybody’s throats). I didn’t trust man made global warning because I lived through the Freon-induced hole in the ozone layer that was torpedoing us into another ice age. After I saw the renaming of “man made global warming” to “global warming” and then “climate change”, i realized the new names were likely adopted because they sounded better to certain focus groups, and/or were just easier to pitch... smells more like propaganda than science to me.
I realize that the climate changes. I’m just not convinced man has much if anything to do with it, and knowing there have been warmer and cooler climates, I’m not sure how much it matters. Oh, I realize the Chicken Littles have all sorts of reasons as to why this warming event is different than every other warming or cooling event in the history of the earth. I’m just not sure I buy it, but I didn’t buy the global cooling scare decades ago, and I even called hogwash on the catastrophic earthquake that was supposed to completely destroy Memphis, TN, back in the late 80s so what do I know.
Dr. Dendrostein
Marine fish monthly
Just like there's vaults with almost every seed on earth. We need to wake up and see the writing on the wall. We may be the vaults for corals?
Phycodurus
Well-Known Member
—whoa, whoa, whoa ... what if we unintentionally introduce aiptasia into the ocean??? ;Jawdrop
(apologies, i had to be the goofball)
When did the ocean become a science experiment?
Who planted the first reef? From what vaults did the seed come from?
How do natural reefs survive with AEFW, algae, red bugs, black bugs, nudibranch', and the other pests we haven't even identified yet.
Don't litter is a good motto.
Who is "we"?
I'm done with that fake narrative, save this or that. I'm not going to live long enough to save myself, or you, or the reef, or your dog for the long haul.
If you want to save the planet that's really good.
How about just being nice on here.
That would be good enough for me.
Good for you!
Who planted the first reef? From what vaults did the seed come from?
How do natural reefs survive with AEFW, algae, red bugs, black bugs, nudibranch', and the other pests we haven't even identified yet.
Don't litter is a good motto.
Who is "we"?
I'm done with that fake narrative, save this or that. I'm not going to live long enough to save myself, or you, or the reef, or your dog for the long haul.
If you want to save the planet that's really good.
How about just being nice on here.
That would be good enough for me.
Good for you!
Sarah24!
2500 Club Member
Hello,
You know normally I’m pretty open minded and very easy to get along with but generally extremely shy. This post however will probably give me backlash etc but as I try and not focus on (my severe issues at the moment and meds that I’m on (read my thread and no I’m not insane but getting there).
I personally think that the human race will destroy all natural coral reefs because there are sooo many who don’t care as to those who do. We know it’s global warming, pollution, plastic, vehicle emissions, sewer waste water dumping into the ocean spin the dial and pick an option. Let’s face the math we have hoe many tanks in the world as compared to one tiny section of natural reef probably has more species and coral than all of ours combined. Yes we may keep some things from extinction but how many millions have gone extinct and will?
Unless people change their life styles then nothing will change. I mean just recently my Jeep was literally cut in 2 pieces, so that’s a positive for one less vehicle producing pollution etc. not sure I will ever drive again ever, but let’s look how much asphalt we have and how it just generates heat. Plastic is horrible on the environment and how much waste do we produce?. Earth is huge but we have how many people and unlike wildlife ahh there is no system to keep us from over populating except our own stupidity.
But I hope one day when I’m finally healed or able to visit each one of the natural reefs and realize that real reefs do have super vibrant colors or special names. They are just normal corals and I hope we always have them.
You know normally I’m pretty open minded and very easy to get along with but generally extremely shy. This post however will probably give me backlash etc but as I try and not focus on (my severe issues at the moment and meds that I’m on (read my thread and no I’m not insane but getting there).
I personally think that the human race will destroy all natural coral reefs because there are sooo many who don’t care as to those who do. We know it’s global warming, pollution, plastic, vehicle emissions, sewer waste water dumping into the ocean spin the dial and pick an option. Let’s face the math we have hoe many tanks in the world as compared to one tiny section of natural reef probably has more species and coral than all of ours combined. Yes we may keep some things from extinction but how many millions have gone extinct and will?
Unless people change their life styles then nothing will change. I mean just recently my Jeep was literally cut in 2 pieces, so that’s a positive for one less vehicle producing pollution etc. not sure I will ever drive again ever, but let’s look how much asphalt we have and how it just generates heat. Plastic is horrible on the environment and how much waste do we produce?. Earth is huge but we have how many people and unlike wildlife ahh there is no system to keep us from over populating except our own stupidity.
But I hope one day when I’m finally healed or able to visit each one of the natural reefs and realize that real reefs do have super vibrant colors or special names. They are just normal corals and I hope we always have them.
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