The current science behind attempting to save coral reefs

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Katrina71

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I don't have any solutions or answers here, but there is definitely a dialogue among kids about the oceans and reefs. I'm hopeful this continues. Smarter industrialism, conservation, species protection are positive steps no matter what platform or label you give it.
 

teller

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I realize that the climate changes. I’m just not convinced man has much if anything to do with it, and knowing there have been warmer and cooler climates, I’m not sure how much it matters.
Maybe you are forgetting that the previous climate changes took tens of thousands to develop. We are now talking about 100/150 years plus the "coincidence" that the human population grew exponentionaly in the last 50 years, as well the natural resources extration, farming, fishing, pollution, etc, etc, etc.
Too many "coincidences".....
 

LARedstickreefer

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I disagree that humanity is the cause, but we definitely aren’t helping the situation.

Some things are unavoidable until we want to consider population control. Other things are, like letting pollution into our oceans. There’s no reason to let pollution run into our oceans.
 

brandon429

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I think the best way to save corals from whatever the environmental cause of loss will be in the wild is to develop methods that allow non tech types to grow coral. The simpler you make it, follow steps 1-20 and you will be producing coral mass, the better chance corals moved inland survive for study. People will save reefs not scientists alone

Cheapest, simplest solution will contribute the most for coral preservation we aren’t going to alter effects currently happening in the wild. move samples inland to keep the genome going. Design a system where anyone who wants a reef, can have one. No years of reading or dorking out online required
 
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Brian1f1

Brian1f1

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When I was in the hobby mid 90s - early/mid 2000s, one of my tanks was an in-wall 75 gal with MHs and PCs for lighting, and during the summer the temperature varied from around 80-84 deg F daily, with higher temperatures on hotter days. I did what I could with fans, but that was as cool as I could get it. There was also a thought at the time by a lot of reefers, that higher temperatures were better, and the typical 77-78 deg F was too cool. Point being, a lot of people have run warm tanks, probably mostly because they don’t have a good way to keep cooler in warmer months, and they do so with no ill effects. If in fact a small, slow, temperature increase (e.g. global warming) was the cause of massive bleaching events, reefers should be running into temperature induced tank crashes left and right (e.g. massive coral bleaching caused by abnormally high temperatures should be repeated in hobbyists reef tanks all over the place).

Because it is so politically expedient to blame everything on global warming, other, potentially more likely problems might be ignored, which isn’t good for coral reefs or the environment. Furthermore, challengers to the global warming holocaust are either ignored or attacked so the only exposure one gets to the subject is via the militant “climate police”, which is by design (sort of like how late night television is designed to cram certain politics down everybody’s throats). I didn’t trust man made global warning because I lived through the Freon-induced hole in the ozone layer that was torpedoing us into another ice age. After I saw the renaming of “man made global warming” to “global warming” and then “climate change”, i realized the new names were likely adopted because they sounded better to certain focus groups, and/or were just easier to pitch... smells more like propaganda than science to me.

I realize that the climate changes. I’m just not convinced man has much if anything to do with it, and knowing there have been warmer and cooler climates, I’m not sure how much it matters. Oh, I realize the Chicken Littles have all sorts of reasons as to why this warming event is different than every other warming or cooling event in the history of the earth. I’m just not sure I buy it, but I didn’t buy the global cooling scare decades ago, and I even called hogwash on the catastrophic earthquake that was supposed to completely destroy Memphis, TN, back in the late 80s so what do I know.

I can be nice, but that doesn’t mean I have to entertain utterly wrong or misleading information, and your posts are unfortunately full of them. I don’t have time to do a full run down of this one. Refer back to my initial reply. To get you started, a few months of low 80 degree water in a tank of yours shows absolutely nothing in regard to climate change induced bleaching events. It can’t even be called anecdotal evidence because it’s not even face valid. Same with all the false equivalencies and mocking of the data that you clearly don’t understand. It can be hard to reconcile cognitive dissonance, especially when the oligarchs have put so much money into hoodwinking the American masses for so long. I recognize that, but you need to try or I’d appreciate that you stop writing the same falsehoods on my thread.
 

X-37B

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In the not to distant future it will be to many people using whats left of the resources on this planet that will do us in. Its already happening but to many people are just trying to survive to really understand it.
The human race is affecting the planet and not just the climate.
If we dont get a handle on it soon the human race wont survive but the coral reefs and the planet will. It just wont look the same as it does now. But then over recorded history nothing stays the same. Species come and go and the planet continues.
So what can the human race do?
We can start by treating each other as equals. There is a little of everyone in all of us, good and bad.
I believe the DNA in all of us proves were all the same, as in equal. Some how, some way, we as a race need to come together on this.
Maybe then we can find an answer to correcting mans influence on our planet.
 

LARedstickreefer

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We (mankind) could start some non profits with people like Jason Fox, as one example, to head up, for the purpose of developing corals capable of enduring many less than ideal conditions.

We won’t prevent mass die off of the reefs, but we can do something to bring them back after the fact.
 
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Sad to think our hobby may be out of existence if the world continues to see dying reefs. I sure hope we figure something out.. I think people are taking climate change and global warming more seriously compared to previous years. Still a long way to go..

That is only part of the equation. Population, money, the need to feed said population, is something that has to be addressed either first or in parallel. Good luck with that because the human need to eat will outweigh anything else.

By this I mean pesticides, countries without environmental awareness, regulations (both too many or not solving the problem), construction, shipping paths, etc. One thing I also found interesting in one of the MACNA presentations is pick what you want to save rather than throw money into something that you can't...

Also stop banning East, or West coast aquaculture farms and artificial reefs.
 
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Crashjack

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I can be nice, but that doesn’t mean I have to entertain utterly wrong or misleading information, and your posts are unfortunately full of them.

Maybe... just like I was wrong on the Freon-induced ice age and the cataclysmic earthquake.

I don’t have time to do a full run down of this one. Refer back to my initial reply. To get you started, a few months of low 80 degree water in a tank of yours shows absolutely nothing in regard to climate change induced bleaching events. It can’t even be called anecdotal evidence because it’s not even face valid. Same with all the false equivalencies and mocking of the data that you clearly don’t understand. It can be hard to reconcile cognitive dissonance, especially when the oligarchs have put so much money into hoodwinking the American masses for so long. I recognize that, but you need to try or I’d appreciate that you stop writing the same falsehoods on my thread.

Sorry, but I don't agree. I realize that someone not agreeing with you or refusing to be swayed by your arguments is difficult for you to get your hands around, but that's ok. You are every bit as entitled to your opinions as I am to mine. Admittedly, I totally distrust governments, media, and so forth spinning arguments to try control the way I think. I remember when kids were taught the carbon cycle and how that makes all life possible. Now kids are taught that CO2 is a poisonous gas as if eliminating all of it would create a utopia when in reality, there haven't been enough nuclear warheads created to kill the planet more thoroughly than eliminating all CO2. Science isn't what is important; it is indoctrination that is important, which is the one of the big reasons I elect not to jump on the bandwagon.
 

CubsFan

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Maybe... just like I was wrong on the Freon-induced ice age and the cataclysmic earthquake.



Sorry, but I don't agree. I realize that someone not agreeing with you or refusing to be swayed by your arguments is difficult for you to get your hands around, but that's ok. You are every bit as entitled to your opinions as I am to mine. Admittedly, I totally distrust governments, media, and so forth spinning arguments to try control the way I think. I remember when kids were taught the carbon cycle and how that makes all life possible. Now kids are taught that CO2 is a poisonous gas as if eliminating all of it would create a utopia when in reality, there haven't been enough nuclear warheads created to kill the planet more thoroughly than eliminating all CO2. Science isn't what is important; it is indoctrination that is important, which is the one of the big reasons I elect not to jump on the bandwagon.
I don’t think you understand the role that CO2 plays in the atmosphere. At least that’s what I gain from this post.
 

CubsFan

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I don’t think you understand the role that CO2 plays in the atmosphere. At least that’s what I gain from this post.
Now that I look at it again, I think I read it wrong. It looks like you understand that removal of all co2 would destroy the planet, but you think that teachers are misleading people on the science?
 

Malifry97

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My point of view is this. Certain political parties gain ground by spreading the fear mongering And propaganda of this so called “Global warming” or “climate change”. I don’t think us humans have much if anything to do with this AT ALL. The earth moves in CYCLES and yes the climate does change, that doesn’t mean we caused it nor does it mean it is permanent. All it is, is just FEAR MONGERING. WAKE UP PEOPLE DONT JUST FOLLOW THE NARRATIVE!!!
 

Thales

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When I was in the hobby mid 90s - early/mid 2000s, one of my tanks was an in-wall 75 gal with MHs and PCs for lighting, and during the summer the temperature varied from around 80-84 deg F daily, with higher temperatures on hotter days. I did what I could with fans, but that was as cool as I could get it. There was also a thought at the time by a lot of reefers, that higher temperatures were better, and the typical 77-78 deg F was too cool. Point being, a lot of people have run warm tanks, probably mostly because they don’t have a good way to keep cooler in warmer months, and they do so with no ill effects.

Temp is one of the triggers of coral bleaching, and we generally worry about sustained temps over 85F. The duration of sustained is variable, and bleaching is trigged by high temp and a number of factors and in the environment (solar irradiance for example) , but it can be weeks or more. 80-84F is fine and is where we run our coral spawning lab.
Also, not all coral handle high temps in the same way - there are corals that can survive in temps over 90. Most don't.

If in fact a small, slow, temperature increase (e.g. global warming) was the cause of massive bleaching events, reefers should be running into temperature induced tank crashes left and right (e.g. massive coral bleaching caused by abnormally high temperatures should be repeated in hobbyists reef tanks all over the place).

Global warming is not a small slow temp increase, it only feels so from the human perspective. There is lots of hobby evidence that high temps can cause problems, and the definition of what is 'high' is variable.

Because it is so politically expedient to blame everything on global warming, other, potentially more likely problems might be ignored, which isn’t good for coral reefs or the environment.

I don't think it has anything to do with politics - climate/temp change is well researched, and there is plenty of evidence it is rally bad. There are also other human impact that are really bad. They all need to be addressed.

Furthermore, challengers to the global warming holocaust are either ignored or attacked so the only exposure one gets to the subject is via the militant “climate police”, which is by design (sort of like how late night television is designed to cram certain politics down everybody’s throats).

I think it is the overwhelming evidence, and lack of counter evidence that makes most of the challenges ignorable.

I didn’t trust man made global warning because I lived through the Freon-induced hole in the ozone layer that was torpedoing us into another ice age.

But we took all kinds of effective action to stop the degrading of the ozone layer - that was science based, and made a huge difference.

After I saw the renaming of “man made global warming” to “global warming” and then “climate change”, i realized the new names were likely adopted because they sounded better to certain focus groups, and/or were just easier to pitch... smells more like propaganda than science to me.

The names were altered to reflect the reality of situation as we better understood the situation - the problem isn't just warming.

I realize that the climate changes. I’m just not convinced man has much if anything to do with it, and knowing there have been warmer and cooler climates, I’m not sure how much it matters.

The evidence is overwhelming and compelling. It matters a lot - if it is human caused, which it is, it can be human fixed.
 

CubsFan

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... I don't know, how about this? carbon cycle.jpg oxygen cycle.jpg
Sorry. It’s hard to read your model on my phone. I think the role of co2 in reference to man made climate change is that it traps the heat. More co2 means more trapped heat. If all the co2 was gone, it would be catastrophic beyond nuclear war is what you were getting at, I think, which is right. If you don’t trust science or the media or the educators then how do you come to any conclusions? It’s very popular not just today, but throughout history, to disparage the educated to push people’s agendas. With all the access to knowledge that we have thanks to advances in technology, it confuses me that people can’t gather evidence and do some critical thinking. The evidence is overwhelmingly in favor of man made climate change putting us where we are today. Of course, these discussions go no where because one side is convinced that there is trickery involved. I yield the rest of my time to those that are smarter than me and back their conclusions with science and facts.
 

Crashjack

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The evidence is overwhelming and compelling. It matters a lot - if it is human caused, which it is, it can be human fixed.

Of course it can be human fixed... all we have to do is exterminate CO2 breathing, fossil fuel burning humans. Who do we exterminate first?... like any good communistic regime, we exterminate those who don't tow the party line. What greater power is there than getting to be in charge of determining who lives and dies, who procreates and who doesn't. Regardless of how much effect man might or might not have on a warming planet, this is all about power and control. Therefore, in honor of the upcoming Christmas Season, I'm content saying, "Bah, humbug."
 

CubsFan

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Id also like to add, before this thread eventually gets closed, that a reef website should be just the place to discuss climate change.
 

CubsFan

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Sounds like this thread is turning into a “I’m right and you’re stupid” thread.
There are those who bring a valid argument and those who say it’s a conspiracy with no evidence to back that up. The narrative that is created to combat this is that “they think you’re stupid”. Creating victims gets people excited and makes them dig in their heels even deeper.
 
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