The decomposing phytoplankton and how can we possibly benefit from it in a Reef.

[sixty_reefer]

The decomposition of phytoplankton could be more beneficial to a reef thank than live phytoplankton.

If we examine the composition of phytoplankton closely we can see many elements that we add to a reef tank daily, the specie I’ve used is as below:

My goal is to replicate what happens in nature as phytoplankton decomposes, breaking down to organic nitrogen and remineralisation.

 

[sixty_reefer]

This is a small vid of wend I previous starter looking at decomposing phytoplankton in a controlled way, we can see nitrogen coming from the phytoplankton in a fast rate



The phytoplankton used in the video is not the same phytoplankton that we are used to in the hobby, as you can see above the phosphorus and nitrogen are in balance with redfield ratio, a normal culture of live phytoplankton is quite high in phosphorus

 

[sixty_reefer]

My previously work with phytoplankton, was the development of a continuous in tank live culture dosing system, during the two years that followed I’ve seen the unexplored potential of the decomposition of phytoplankton benefits. But I did hit a wall eventually as I couldn’t control po4 from raising and no3 from decreasing rapidly. Am much hoping that this could be the solution to deliver the phytoplankton benefits without the challenges involved in controlling po4 and no3.

small video of the live continuously dosing phytoplankton project



And the some of the visible benefits in the sump

 

[thatmanMIKEson]

This is a small vid of wend I previous starter looking at decomposing phytoplankton in a controlled way, we can see nitrogen coming from the phytoplankton in a fast rate



The phytoplankton used in the previous test is not the same phytoplankton that we are used to in the hobby, as you can see above the phosphorus and nitrogen are in balance with redfield ratio, a normal culture of live phytoplankton is quite high in both.

what does that mean?

 

[sixty_reefer]

what does that mean?

That video shows bacteria breaking down the phytoplankton

 

[ZoWhat]

Last time I was at Olive Garden I ask for Decomposing Phyto instead of Italian dressing

 

[sixty_reefer]

Last time I was at Olive Garden I ask for Decomposing Phyto instead of Italian dressing

Can’t say it would be my personal choice, I don’t expect for the theory to be accepted, it’s mainly for my own gain, I’ve posted on this part of the forum as my chemistry knowledge won’t be enough to understand the transformation that occur from decomposing to particulate organic nitrogen & dissolved organic nitrogen to remineralisation.

 

[elysics]

Haven't gone super in depth quite yet, but is the elevated phosphate a matter of the tank taking up a different ratio than the algae, or matter of the algae taking up a different ratio than what's in the fertilizer?

In other words, is the excess phosphate coming from digested algae or from the growth medium?

Was actually planning on emulating your phyto setup

 

[sixty_reefer]

Haven't gone super in depth quite yet, but is the elevated phosphate a matter of the tank taking up a different ratio than the algae, or matter of the algae taking up a different ratio than what's in the fertilizer?

In other words, is the excess phosphate coming from digested algae or from the growth medium?

Was actually planning on emulating your phyto setup

The elevated phosphate comes from the fertiliser in a standard culture that is not utilised by the micro algae, meaning most phosphate will be in the water of the culture, if used in small amounts normal filtration methods would deal with it. Because one of the main goals here is to increase the amount of nitrogen I need to use more phytoplankton than the average user. Utilising freeze dryer phytoplankton seems to be the obvious choice to me now, as the phosphate level in it are quite low as per redfield ratio. I should in theory have high amount of Carbon and Nitrogen and a very low phosphorus concentration. Imo in the correct amount/balance for the microbes in my tank to transform it to beneficial elements that can be utilised by coral and zooplankton, as observed by previous experimentation with phytoplankton.

 

[sixty_reefer]

Most of you reading this, probably shaking your heads in disbelief, I would just like to add that the main philosophy behind this concept comes from Pythagoras.

“ Nothing is lost, nothing is created, everything is transformed ”

 

[elysics]

The elevated phosphate comes from the fertiliser in a standard culture that is not utilised by the micro algae, meaning most phosphate will be in the water of the culture, if used in small amounts normal filtration methods would deal with it. Because one of the main goals here is to increase the amount of nitrogen I need to use more phytoplankton than the average user. Utilising freeze dryer phytoplankton seems to be the obvious choice to me now, as the phosphate level in it are quite low as per redfield ratio. I should in theory have high amount of Carbon and Nitrogen and a very low phosphorus concentration. Imo in the correct amount/balance for the microbes in my tank to transform it to beneficial elements that can be utilised by coral and zooplankton, as observed by previous experimentation with phytoplankton.

Wouldn't it be possible to use fertilizer with reduced po4 (to the amount of excess) then, or would the algae not grow?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

The decomposition of phytoplankton could be more beneficial to a reef thank than live phytoplankton.

If we examine the composition of phytoplankton closely we can see many elements that we add to a reef tank daily, the specie I’ve used is as below:

My goal is to replicate what happens in nature as phytoplankton decomposes, breaking down to organic nitrogen and remineralisation.

How is this different than fish food?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Can’t say it would be my personal choice, I don’t expect for the theory to be accepted, it’s mainly for my own gain, I’ve posted on this part of the forum as my chemistry knowledge won’t be enough to understand the transformation that occur from decomposing to particulate organic nitrogen & dissolved organic nitrogen to remineralisation.

Well, there's nothing wrong with feeding dead phyto, or dead fish or shrimp or seaweed. Of course, we already do that.

I've fed dead phyto (ESV brand). Didn't see any apparent benefit for filter feeders (my reason for dosing).

If you want to claim that dead is better than live, that will be a very hard proof, and I don't see why its better than other sources of all of those same chemicals you posted.

 

[sixty_reefer]

Wouldn't it be possible to use fertilizer with reduced po4 (to the amount of excess) then, or would the algae not grow?

I did play around with a few methods to reduce po4 in the culture, but unfortunately I wasn’t successful at it.

 

[sixty_reefer]

How is this different than fish food?

I would think it would depend on the food content, also the protein skimmer and filter would of remove most before hand

 

[elysics]

I did play around with a few methods to reduce po4 in the culture, but unfortunately I wasn’t successful at it.

Was more thinking about using modified F/2 with less phosphate in it. Certainly wouldn't be cheap though getting all the ingredients, maybe the main component solutions are for sale somewhere. Getting everything seperately would be around 100€, on the other hand that's a lifetime supply of F/2


Or did you succeed at reducing po4 but were unsuccessful at growing stuff

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I would think it would depend on the food content, also the protein skimmer and filter would of remove most before hand

I see no reason to think that fish foods would be removed faster than phyto, and large fish or shrimp chunks aren't going to be skimmed out.

 

[ZoWhat]

Can’t say it would be my personal choice, I don’t expect for the theory to be accepted, it’s mainly for my own gain, I’ve posted on this part of the forum as my chemistry knowledge won’t be enough to understand the transformation that occur from decomposing to particulate organic nitrogen & dissolved organic nitrogen to remineralisation.

I brew phyto in a 5gal container with a spigot. About once a month the sides are so encrusted with deep green phyto that I use a toilet brush tool to scrub it and rinse it down the drain.

You've inspired me to scrub it and dose it in my DT. We'll see how it goes

 

[ZoWhat]

@elysics
@sixty_reefer

I use to use the Mercer of Montanas f/2 fertilizer but found that it was loaded with undesirable Phosphates.

Standard F/2 (Guillard's) medium compositions (from researchgate.net)​

Ive since moved over to using pure lab grade sodium nitrate powder/pellets to culture a new batch of phyto every 2 weeks.

I found that it takes about twice as long to get to the dark green state I desire, but it does get there... without the use of any added Phosphates

So inside my container is 1.020 saltwater (new IO mix), phyto (tetraselmis from previous culture) and pure sodium nitrate.

If Phosphate appears in a batch, it didn't come from me or an outside source I purposefully put in.

.

 

[elysics]

@elysics
@sixty_reefer

I use to use the Mercer of Montanas f/2 fertilizer but found that it was loaded with undesirable Phosphates.

Standard F/2 (Guillard's) medium compositions (from researchgate.net)​

Ive since moved over to using pure lab grade sodium nitrate powder/pellets to culture a new batch of phyto every 2 weeks.

I found that it takes about twice as long to get to the dark green state I desire, but it does get there... without the use of any added Phosphates

So inside my container is 1.020 saltwater (new IO mix), phyto (tetraselmis from previous culture) and pure sodium nitrate.

If Phosphate appears in a batch, it didn't come from me or an outside source I purposefully put in.

.

Alright that's much cheaper than getting the full ingredients for F/2. Do you not get culture crashes that way? How much phosphate is in IO?