The DOs and DON’Ts of Quarantine

Discussion in 'Fish Disease Treatment and Diagnosis' started by Humblefish, Jun 14, 2015.

  1. saltwater newby

    saltwater newby Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2016
    Messages:
    288
    Likes Received:
    87
    Makes sense. Thank you!!!
     
  2. rockstarta78

    rockstarta78 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2015
    Messages:
    143
    Likes Received:
    78
    Location:
    Sterling, VA
    It seems like I may need to do a dose of Coppersafe in my QT. The instructions says 1tsp or 5ml for 4g of water to have 1.5 to 2ppm copper level . I have a 10g QT. My question is, do I put 2.5tsp (or 12.5ml) at one go or do I bring it up slowly? Will this have any adverse effect if I put the recommended dose to start the treatment? I have 2 juvenile clownfish. I am thinking about doing a Prazi and coppersafe treatment together. Any help would be really appreciated.
     
  3. Humblefish

    Humblefish Dr. Fish Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Expert Contributor Partner Member Article Contributor

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2014
    Messages:
    13,915
    Likes Received:
    14,414
    When using Coppersafe, both myself and a LFS I advise have been able to ramp it up to full therapeutic all in one dosage without any noticeable ill effects on the fish. However, I do not understand why you can do this with chelated copper and yet with Cupramine its best to take 4-5 days to get up to therapeutic. Therefore, I advise caution, and to take 2-3 days to get up to therapeutic even with Coppersafe - just to play it safe. The sole exception to this rule is when faced with a fish disease emergency such as velvet.

    You can mix Prazipro with Coppersafe; however I reserve that only for emergency situations when a fish has both external parasites and gill flukes. When mixing meds, what works most of the time can still kill some of the time. ;)
     
  4. rockstarta78

    rockstarta78 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2015
    Messages:
    143
    Likes Received:
    78
    Location:
    Sterling, VA
    As always thank you @Humblefish. So since these are juvenile clownfish (less than 2 inches) you think they can handle the meds? And as for Prazi I was going to do just one dose only. Do a 10% water change every other day. It took me about 2 months to find a b&w juvenile Darwin. I'd rather not harm it. Men's scare me.
     
  5. Humblefish

    Humblefish Dr. Fish Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Expert Contributor Partner Member Article Contributor

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2014
    Messages:
    13,915
    Likes Received:
    14,414
    Being hardy, most clownfish handle copper and other meds just fine. However, unless you are seeing signs of velvet or brook on them, your best bet would be to use TTM to QT: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/tank-transfer-method.192655/

    You dose Prazipro at the onset of transfers 2 & 4 to deworm, and there is no risk of any chemical interaction with another medication. This protocol is by far the "safest" way to QT.
     
  6. rockstarta78

    rockstarta78 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2015
    Messages:
    143
    Likes Received:
    78
    Location:
    Sterling, VA
    I read your post on TTM. And I really liked it better than the other methods. But sadly I don't have the option to get a 2nd tank to do TTM. Even though that would be a beget option.
     
  7. Humblefish

    Humblefish Dr. Fish Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Expert Contributor Partner Member Article Contributor

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2014
    Messages:
    13,915
    Likes Received:
    14,414
    If these clownfish are small enough, just use a 5 gal bucket as the 2nd tank. However, you will also need another heater, air stone, etc. Whenever you do TTM, everything must be new or sterile when transferring from tank to tank.
     
  8. Pagerone

    Pagerone Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 24, 2016
    Messages:
    143
    Likes Received:
    97
    Location:
    Bay Area
    Ok well I read all this and I don't k ow how long you have been in the hobby but one thing you did not talk about is how copper kills all beifical bacteria so ammonia will spike no matter what ,QT tanks are not easy you will have ammonia spikes so water changes MUST be done every 2 or 3 days depending on the size of the QT tank ,people act like I'll just buy a 10 gallon tank , add water from my display and a sponge filter and that's it no no no copper will kill the Bactria from that sponge you have been letting sit in your sump so sorry I do not agree with what your saying here ,Ammonia will spike even if you have a cycled hospital tank once you put copper gets dosed In the tank
     
  9. Bob Escher

    Bob Escher Bye bye freshwater R2R Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2015
    Messages:
    1,708
    Likes Received:
    736
    Location:
    Nashotah Wisconsin
    Great write up.
    You mentioned a diamond goby. What do you do with fish like a sand sifter? Will a piece of PVC be ok for a yellow watchman that likes the rock also?

    Have you heard of a product called Hydroplex from a company called http://www.rubyreef.net ?
    I've heard good things about it but they do recommending dipping and putting in a QT as well

    Why not corals in the same QT?
    Thanks a lot and following
     
  10. Congaken

    Congaken Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2015
    Messages:
    1,124
    Likes Received:
    342
    Location:
    Livingston Manor, NY
    I have had 2 ywg's in QT with cupramine...use the little white plumbing tubes...they are not that fussy...as far as corals go...copper will kill corals and all inverts...and as you no doubt read above...you must QT and not a short one either...I just ended up with velvet in my DT...all fish now in copper for (I guess) 6 weeks...the DT needs to lie fallow (no fish) for all of that time to be sure no velvet, ich or other disease organisms are alive...good luck with salt...in reef and salt, you do it right or you see a lot of death and wasted $...also, sounds like your tank is new...take your time, don't over buy fish or corals or anything...takes a while for a new tank to settle in...and do you know about dipping corals?...important...a good book or 2 would help you...(I can recommend)...;);)
     
  11. Humblefish

    Humblefish Dr. Fish Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Expert Contributor Partner Member Article Contributor

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2014
    Messages:
    13,915
    Likes Received:
    14,414
    First off, almost nothing kills bacteria 100%. Not even chlorine. And while it is true that copper will zap most free floating bacteria; bacteria embedded in QT bio-media suffer only moderate casualties. The surviving bacteria quickly adapt and repropagate their numbers. I know this because I've used copper a few times and never encountered an ammonia spike when using well seeded bio-media in a HOB. :)

    You can use a little sand (in a pyrex bowl) in QT, for gobies and sand burrowing wrasses. Just be sure to test your copper level and add more if absorption occurs.

    I've never used Hydroplex, but Ruby Reef Rally contains acriflavine and I've successfully used that chemical (in a bath treatment) to provide temporary relief for brook & velvet.


    You don't want to QT corals with fish because they can actually infect one another with external parasites. We'll use ich as an example. When a fish has ich he is carrying the trophont stage of the parasite, which drops off after 3-7 days and encysts as a tomont on any hard surface. The stony parts of an SPS/LPS or a coral plug would qualify as a hard surface. Conversely, a coral carrying tomonts releases theronts (free swimmers) into the water column which seek out fish to infect. Once these latch onto a fish, they become trophonts and the parasite's life cycle begins anew.
     
    BluewaterLa likes this.
  12. Howieumd

    Howieumd Well-Known Member R2R Supporter Gold Sponsor

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2016
    Messages:
    78
    Likes Received:
    54
    Location:
    North Dartmouth, MA
    I'm making the switch to CP from Cupramine, but have a few questions on QT process. I have a 240 gallon FOWLR that I've kept for over 10 years and just recently setup a 390 gallon that's starting to get stocked, which will also be heavy on SPS.

    I have 2 QT tanks, one is a 50 gallon and the other is 20 gallon. The 50 gallon already has fish in QT and the 20 is setup for a few others showing up before the ones in the 50's QT process completes. They are kept over 10 feet apart. I'd like to keep the 50 gallon always setup for QT, as I plan to make another order soon after the current fish in it go to the 390. If I want to keep the 50 always going, I plan to put a chromis in there that stays to help keep ammonia away. During the QT process, if I run carbon after the CP and Prazi (obviously not during the first 3 weeeks) does it remove the medication over the 2 additional weeks of observation that the carbon is running? I also have Aquatop HOBs that have small UV sterilizer built in (though not sure how effective they are). I also plan to run the UV over the final 2 weeks of observation in conjunction with carbon.

    In the past, my QT was setup on demand as I got new fish. However, now that I want to keep a QT tank always going, I'm just wondering how those of you that do so eliminate the CP/copper and Prazi before the next group shows up for QT without having the breakdown and sterilize and refill every time.

    Lastly, what's the coral QT process? I didn't realize coral had to be, as I didn't have coral in my 240. Is it just a separate non medicated tank and X amount of weeks for observation? I might have to make the 20 gallon the tank for that, or buy a smaller frag tank setup. Is it as long as a fallow process, to allow any potential ich/velvet to die off that may have come from whoever I bought the coral from?
     
  13. 4FordFamily

    4FordFamily Tang, Angel, & Wrasse Addict R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Reef Squad Leader Partner Member Article Contributor

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2015
    Messages:
    9,490
    Likes Received:
    10,188
    Location:
    Fishers, Indiana
    DONT - build a stand that doesn't allow for you to see your sump very well. DONT buy tiny fish that can get sucked in to the sump. DONT leave the tank "fallow" and unwittingly have tiny gobies or fish you can't see in the sump or the rock so that the parasite is not actually starved.
     
    BluewaterLa and Humblefish like this.
  14. LDH

    LDH Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2016
    Messages:
    68
    Likes Received:
    73
    Location:
    Victoria, BC, Canada
    Great thank you so much for putting this together! Is there a reason it's not good to drip acclimate into a qt? I've just never heard that before. Thanks again!
     
  15. Humblefish

    Humblefish Dr. Fish Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Expert Contributor Partner Member Article Contributor

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2014
    Messages:
    13,915
    Likes Received:
    14,414
    A UV will remove CP in roughly 24 hrs. Carbon (in a reactor) will do the same and also removes Prazipro.

    Corals/inverts should be isolated for 76 days in a fishless enviroment, in order to "starve out" any encysted parasites they may be carrying. Below is a photo of my 29 gal "fishless" frag tank. I just use cheap T5 lighting, Koralia powerhead, HOB powerfilter/skimmer, heater, rock/sand and a frag rack to get the job done. ;)

    [​IMG]
     
  16. DracoKat

    DracoKat Well-Known Member R2R Supporter

    Joined:
    May 12, 2015
    Messages:
    1,568
    Likes Received:
    943
    Location:
    Lawnguyland, NY
    I have a temporary QT, meaning I set it up when I am ready to use it.

    I had asked my LFS to order me a fish, and since I don't know how long it'll be before I get it.. a week, two weeks, a month or more.. can i run the QT empty for more than a week? I have seeded sponge ready to use too from my main sump.
     
  17. Humblefish

    Humblefish Dr. Fish Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Expert Contributor Partner Member Article Contributor

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2014
    Messages:
    13,915
    Likes Received:
    14,414
    If a fish has been in transit for too long (ordered online for example), then ammonia will begin to buildup in the water 30 mins after opening the bag. So, you must use an ammonia reducer to neutralize this threat. Matching your QT to the bag water's SG allows you to just float & release for temperate acclimation. The bag doesn't get opened until the fish is ready to go in, so ammonia is not a concern.
     
    LDH and BluewaterLa like this.
  18. Humblefish

    Humblefish Dr. Fish Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Expert Contributor Partner Member Article Contributor

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2014
    Messages:
    13,915
    Likes Received:
    14,414
    Yes, just add the sponge from your DT sump after the new fish go into QT. This ensures the nitrifying bacteria found in the sponge are healthy & ready to do their job.
     
    BluewaterLa and DracoKat like this.
  19. Howieumd

    Howieumd Well-Known Member R2R Supporter Gold Sponsor

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2016
    Messages:
    78
    Likes Received:
    54
    Location:
    North Dartmouth, MA
    Thanks. 76 days is a lot, just the same as a fallow period on main. It makes sense though. One question, it makes sense if it's from say somebody on here that's selling coral frags they just harvested from main tank. What if it's from just an online shop that sells just corals? In that case, there isn't any fish who may have had parasites in their tanks (if they are as they advertise, of course you never know). Would there still be a reason to QT corals in that case?
     
  20. Humblefish

    Humblefish Dr. Fish Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Expert Contributor Partner Member Article Contributor

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2014
    Messages:
    13,915
    Likes Received:
    14,414
    Most online sources that sell corals still keep a few fish in their grow-out systems for the nutrients. Or their coral tanks are tied into a sump which also services tanks with fish. Or there's also aerosol transmission to be wary of: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/aerosol-transmission.190292/
     
    BluewaterLa likes this.

Share This Page

Loading...