The DOs and DON’Ts of Quarantine

Discussion in 'Fish Disease Treatment and Diagnosis' started by Humblefish, Jun 14, 2015.

  1. BigAsh

    BigAsh Active Member

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    Humble Fish: What do you think of Gene Harm's one-week method designed to break the life cycle of the parasites? It is on YouTube and titled "One week saltwater fish quarantine method."
     

  2. Humblefish

    Humblefish Dr. Fish Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Expert Contributor Article Contributor Louisiana Reef Club Partner Member 2018

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    @BigAsh Some problems with the 100% water change method:
    • Parasite tomonts can encyst to any hard surface, including glass. Just draining the water in QT probably doesn't kill them. You would need to also disinfect the inside of the QT using bleach. :eek: Or allow to air dry for a few days. This is why when doing tank transfer method, it is necessary to have two of everything in order to make the transfers.
    • I don't agree with his liberal use of fresh water dips when doing the 100% water change. IMHO; FW dips should be reserved for emergency situations or to confirm the presence of flukes.
    • Keeping all of his QTs in such close proximity does not take aerosol transmission into consideration: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/aerosol-transmission.190292/
    • I could see what he's doing possibly working to outrun some strains of ich, due to its prolonged life cycle. But it will not work to eradicate velvet, flukes, etc.
     
  3. BigAsh

    BigAsh Active Member

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    Yes, but I must admit that his claimed track record is impressive. I have had good luck with fresh water dips in the past but I have never done them every two days like he does.
     
  4. Humblefish

    Humblefish Dr. Fish Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Expert Contributor Article Contributor Louisiana Reef Club Partner Member 2018

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    FW dips can occasionally go awry. I'm comfortable doing them, but some people I help claim the FW dip killed their fish. :eek:
     
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  5. BigAsh

    BigAsh Active Member

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    Thanks for the responses, HF. I've seen it recommended to match the pH of the fresh water dip to the bag water but I'm not sure how critical that would be for a 3 minute dip. Perhaps a 2 point pH difference could be enough to kill a sensitive fish.
     
  6. Humblefish

    Humblefish Dr. Fish Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Expert Contributor Article Contributor Louisiana Reef Club Partner Member 2018

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    I squirt a little SW (tank water) in the FW to raise it.
     
  7. Humblefish

    Humblefish Dr. Fish Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Expert Contributor Article Contributor Louisiana Reef Club Partner Member 2018

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    Just wanted to post this table (below) to backup my statement regarding tomonts attaching to glass.

    [​IMG]
     
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  8. Howieumd

    Howieumd Well-Known Member R2R Supporter Gold Sponsor

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    Humblefish, quick question. I have a pair of Golden Rhomboid Fairy Wrasses and a pair of Pintail Fairy Wrasses arriving on Tuesday. I have CP from Diamondback Drugs and Cupramine both on hand. I can also order Copper Power if that's better. Which would you recommend for using for QT with these wrasses? I see some people say not to use CP with Wrasses, but think I saw you say it's ok for Fairy and Flashers, but not the rest, but to maybe dose light?
     
  9. Humblefish

    Humblefish Dr. Fish Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Expert Contributor Article Contributor Louisiana Reef Club Partner Member 2018

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    I wouldn't use CP on any wrasses until more experimentation has been done. IME; Copper Power or Coppersafe would be best to use on your wrasses.
     
  10. LDH

    LDH Well-Known Member

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    @Humblefish do you always medicate a quarantine tank as a preventative measure or do you wait to see signs of disease on a fish before you add medications?

    Also, you said freshly mixed salt water... so you don't recommend water from the display for the quarantine? How is the water cycled if its freshly mixed?

    Thanks so much for your time and expertise!!
     
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  11. melypr1985

    melypr1985 totally addicted Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Reef Squad Leader Expert Contributor Article Contributor

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    Hi there! I can tell you that Humble treats prophylactically as do I. Neither of us recommend using water from your display unless you KNOW it is parasite free. Since most people we advise are dealing with a parasite in there tank due to not using a QT, that's usually not the case. Besides, there is very little bacteria in the water itself. The best practice (assuming a parasite free tank) is to keep a simple sponge in the sump so that when you need to set up your QT, you have a sponge for the filter already seeded with bacteria. The freshly mixed saltwater provides an absolutely clean slate for the fish when they are introduced and no chance of infection from anything else that may be in the water.
     
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  12. LDH

    LDH Well-Known Member

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    Makes perfect sense! Thanks so much for taking the time to respond!
     
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  13. jeffrey holloway

    jeffrey holloway Well-Known Member

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    So, are you saying fish in the QT should be treated for ick even if they don't show signs of it after 4 weeks?
     
  14. melypr1985

    melypr1985 totally addicted Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Reef Squad Leader Expert Contributor Article Contributor

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    I'm saying that's what I and Humblefish do. Ich can harbor in the gills -out of sight- for much longer than 4 weeks. After all the time, energy and money I've spent keeping parasites out of my tank I'm not taking the chance on introducing it anyway. Everybody get's treated for ick and flukes before going into my tank. If anything else shows up along the way (which is should in that time frame) it gets treated as well. I advise everyone treat prphylactically, but It's a decision that each person has to make on their own.
     
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  15. Zoaeasy

    Zoaeasy Well-Known Member R2R Supporter Partner Member 2018

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    Thanks for the great thread. What is your preferred method of sterilization?
     
  16. melypr1985

    melypr1985 totally addicted Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Reef Squad Leader Expert Contributor Article Contributor

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    You might not have been asking me, but I'll answer anyway :) I prefer to use vinegar and water, rinse well, then dry for several days. Bleach can be used as well, but you have to be sure you rinsed thoroughly after cleaning and before drying.
     
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  17. jeffrey holloway

    jeffrey holloway Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the info. I think I will go ahead with the ick treatment, can't hurt. No hurry on my part, DT has 7 more weeks of fallow. Don't need to put ick back into the DT after all this time.
     
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  18. DLHDesign

    DLHDesign Noob R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Reef Squad Build Thread Contributor Partner Member 2018

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    QT (TTM, PraziPro, etc.) and captive bred fishes (CBF); how critical is that, would you say?

    On the more conservative side of thought; the water used to raise CBF may be shared with wild-caught fishes, which could result in disease transfer. The same also could occur if the tanks are even close to each other and not closed up (10ft aerosol transfer). A full QT would protect against these possibilities.
    On the less conservative side of thought; the CBF has been, by definition, under observation for it's entire life. During this time, it is likely that any sign of illness or parasites would have been treated and handled. If you know that the vendor only handles CBF (eg; no wild-caught fishes), then the water system would never have the chance to be introduced to undesirables. A full QT in this case would put the CBF through more stress events that could have a net negative impact.

    Assuming that the vendor is reputable and is only dealing in CBF, what are your thoughts on doing only a minimal QT? Eg; single tank for several days at most just to recover from travel and food-acclimate.
     
  19. melypr1985

    melypr1985 totally addicted Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Reef Squad Leader Expert Contributor Article Contributor

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    I'm going to tell you one little story (a very recent true story). Keep in mind this story has happened twice with the same vendor (who I wont name here)

    At the store (you know i work at an LFS) we frequently get clownfish in from suppliers that only deal in Captive bred fish. Not just clowns, but some of the other stuff like gobies and dottybacks. This last time, we did a 1 hour dip in Ruby Reef Rally before acclimating them into the copper system. They still brought in Brook. The entire 900 gallon system had to be treated. We lost something like 100 clowns in just two days. I started treatment when I came back to work (was off for the weekend and the two days they all died) and the deaths slowed down considerably. Today we haven't lost a single fish in 3 days - not one. But the whole system had to be put off the market for sale. The first time this happened I removed all the fish and flushed the system with bleach, did a thourough cleaning and then ran with a couple gallons of prime after letting it dry completely. That was not fun! The lesson here? Anybody - no matter what they deal in- can send you fish with disease. This company has a great rep and has been in business for a very long time.... we no longer do business with them as of last week. Check it out.
     
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  20. DLHDesign

    DLHDesign Noob R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Reef Squad Build Thread Contributor Partner Member 2018

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    I'm so sorry you lost all that and are having to go through so much! :-(

    So the "more conservative" angle wins out. I'm okay with that. Just means that I have to wait until after the holidays to get more fishes. Otherwise I'd go out of town with fishes still in QT - which is not something I'd trust a house-sitter (read: neighbor) to keep an eye on...
     
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