The Ecotech pump clones have arrived in Ali Express !!!

[Derrick0580]

Doesn’t making just one small change constitute a different product? The suction cups allowing for smaller magnets should be enough to keep it from being considered a direct copy imo. I think mainly I’m just fed up with the quality of all of my ecotech products which makes me not care if they are direct rip offs. I’ve spent way too much money on lights, pumps, and dosers for how crappy they work. I have went through 4 versa dosers in 2 years, and have to reset one of my radions at least once a week. The only item they make I’ve really had zero problem with is the return pump.

 

[Sisterlimonpot]

Doesn’t making just one small change constitute a different product? The suction cups allowing for smaller magnets should be enough to keep it from being considered a direct copy imo. I think mainly I’m just fed up with the quality of all of my ecotech products which makes me not care if they are direct rip offs. I’ve spent way too much money on lights, pumps, and dosers for how crappy they work. I have went through 4 versa dosers in 2 years, and have to reset one of my radions at least once a week. The only item they make I’ve really had zero problem with is the return pump.

I for one, have been patiently waiting for them to respond. To see what direction they go. But another part of me feels the way you do. Their pricing is no longer commensurate to their quality and they're holding onto a reputation that is eroding.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

, I can't justify paying an order of magnitude more for a product simply because they were the first to do it, especially not in a world where technological innovation is so rapid. Competition sparks innovation, price competition is capitalism, and while this might be a Chinese clone that's again ignoring patents (also a tale as old as time), it might be the kick in the rear that Ecotech needs if they see a tangible impact on their P&L's to either; do something new, or recognize that their price isn't exactly justifiable (at least in my opinion).

I certainly understand that everyone wants to save money, and many people can only afford the knock offs.

But as an inventor on many patents, some of which cover or covered valuable commercial products, I have a different view.

If my company had not been able to get a number of years of patent exclusivity, I am certain the research and development to come up with the product would not have been done. Thus, the people using them would never have had the choice to get them at any price, and in the end, some people would likely have died because of it (they are pharmaceuticals).

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Doesn’t making just one small change constitute a different product? The suction cups allowing for smaller magnets should be enough to keep it from being considered a direct copy imo. I think mainly I’m just fed up with the quality of all of my ecotech products which makes me not care if they are direct rip offs. I’ve spent way too much money on lights, pumps, and dosers for how crappy they work. I have went through 4 versa dosers in 2 years, and have to reset one of my radions at least once a week. The only item they make I’ve really had zero problem with is the return pump.

If you are asking about a patent, the answer lies in the claims. Some can be very broad and a small (or even large) change may make no difference. Some claims may be very narrow, in which case a small change could avoid violating the patent claim.

 

[minus9]

Exhibit A
Exhibit B

 

[SliceGolfer]

Does WIFI count as innovation? One of these things is not like the other

 

[rtparty]

Does WIFI count as innovation? One of these things is not like the other

Technically, Vortechs have had WiFi for years. It just didn’t release to the public. If you called in and asked, you could get WiFi access in a beta form

 

[minus9]

Well, if you look closely at the patents between Ecotech and Mervin F. Roberts, you'll notice that Ecotech specifically stated "bracketless". Why would they have to say "bracketless" if this was truly their design? Just asking questions and being skeptical.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Well, if you look closely at the patents between Ecotech and Mervin F. Roberts, you'll notice that Ecotech specifically stated "bracketless". Why would they have to say "bracketless" if this was truly their design? Just asking questions and being skeptical.

Ecotech cited the other patent you mention in its own application and thus the us patent office determined that whatever claims ecotech got are a novel invention even knowing what the other patent revealed.

 

[mjszos]

I certainly understand that everyone wants to save money, and many people can only afford the knock offs.

But as an inventor on many patents, some of which cover or covered valuable commercial products, I have a different view.

If my company had not been able to get a number of years of patent exclusivity, I am certain the research and development to come up with the product would not have been done. Thus, the people using them would never have had the choice to get them at any price, and in the end, some people would likely have died because of it (they are pharmaceuticals).

I respect this take, but I feel it may be disingenuous to compare hobbyist equipment to pharmaceuticals. In your example I wholly agree that the research and development of drugs is important, and patent exclusivity may fund this, but I also firmly believe it’s within reason to limit the exclusivity of pharmaceutical patents to minimize corporate greed as well. Particularly with your example of saving lives; a medicine of that caliber shouldn’t be cost prohibitive, nor should it be driving revenue beyond what is needed to enable safe research, development, and testing.

Though in the example of medicine and health that is indicative of systemic issues that I would anticipate are not appropriate for the nature of this forum.

My point being; An $800 powerhead isn’t the same as a $100mil R&D effort for health. Nobody will die without an MP40, but they could without their medicine. Viewing them the same is a disservice to your own work as a researcher imo.

The devils advocate argument to this is the utilization of an MP40 in public aquaria, or research. But the unfortunate reality is the bulk of these things are underfunded and would further benefit from less overhead on equipment to instead focus that funding on research, conservation efforts, etc.

Just my $0.02, but I do fully respect your perspective.

 

[minus9]

Ecotech cited the other patent you mention in its own application and thus the us patent office determined that whatever claims ecotech got are a novel invention even knowing what the other patent revealed.

Yes, but the point being, they didn’t invent this style of pump, they merely improved upon a previous invention/idea. Their improvements were noticeable, but nowhere did they mention where they got their idea from (publicly)? They borrowed from a nearly 40 year old invention. So the story about the pedicure pump seems a little suspect to me.
I hate theft, but I hate hypocrisy just as much. But I do agree with your point(s) about patents, but I’m not sure how much of that applies here?

 

[vadryn]

I have the DMP 10 and 20. I got one of the noisy 10’s and would recommend anyone skip the 10 for a 20. I’d buy another DMP 20 in a heartbeat. I was never in the market to pay MP Vortech prices and am very grateful to have an affordable option for a technology that’s been around for almost 20 years. (Finally!). Honestly I’m surprised there isn’t more negativity aimed at Ecotech given how long they’ve milked this.

 

[minus9]

I have the DMP 10 and 20. I got one of the noisy 10’s and would recommend anyone skip the 10 for a 20. I’d buy another DMP 20 in a heartbeat. I was never in the market to pay MP Vortech prices and am very grateful to have an affordable option for a technology that’s been around for almost 20 years. (Finally!). Honestly I’m surprised there isn’t more negativity aimed at Ecotech given how long they’ve milked this.

The first patent for this type of pump was in 1967, but do agree that they have been rather lazy in terms of innovation or upgrading these pumps. At least make the software better and make use of WiFi. Someone had mentioned software in general for this hobby (maybe Salem?) should be improved greatly and I couldn’t agree more. Most software for the things we use is horrible and so out of date.

 

[Lowell Lemon]

I wonder how new tariffs will impact the flow of Chinese goods? Will it expand or kill innovation?

My lack of respect for Chinese companies and products has been discussed before. I do not support the theft of intellectual property.

I also hate popcorn so this makes this conversation very long winded lol!

 

[Dragen Fiend]

I wonder how new tariffs will impact the flow of Chinese goods? Will it expand or kill innovation?

My lack of respect for Chinese companies and products has been discussed before. I do not support the theft of intellectual property.

I also hate popcorn so this makes this conversation very long winded lol!

Chinese companies will just move product to other countries and have them import that way dodging tariffs. Nothing they have not done in the past under the original Trumps tariffs which are still current under Biden.

 

[damsels are not mean]

I wonder how new tariffs will impact the flow of Chinese goods? Will it expand or kill innovation?

Probably not much overall. In the short term we'd probably experience inflation like we did during the pandemic induced supply chain shocks a couple years ago. In the medium term those price hikes would stay but the market structure would mostly settle out to the way it is now. In the longer term (like 10-15 years plus) perhaps this would create an opportunity for less developed countries that still have fast growing populations like Nigeria to start to take up the mantle.

China isn't just producing all of our electronics because it's cheap. They do so because they invested in that infrastructure at the right time. We don't have that here and we don't have the workers to make it happen even if we did invest in it now. Doubly so of we reduce immigration (trying not to get too political here). Ultimately we will still have expensive products assembled in america with the same components from the same factories as cheaper products assembled in China except everything will now cost a lot more across the board.

 

[s1ngl3t0n]

has somebody tested the master / slave functionality? would like to buy 3 dmp-40 but it would be nice if you could set up all together

 

[Jonreefer]

I have had MP10 and MP40 even an MP20 way back in the day.
I have a DMP10 now on my new tank and its great. Pretty much dead silent and does what I want it to do. I dont have to pay the greedy $330 price that keeps going up every year just because and they offer nothing new. Plus it being blutooth I dont have to worry if the service goes down I cannot connect to my pumps. I hope this makes them start to actually make some changes to make any price increase better or really eat into profits so they lower prices. I wont buy an ecotech product again. you know 100% ecotech will us the tariffs to raise prices sky high even if they dont have to be.