The fate of my tank…ich after fallow & QT.

BRS

What should be the fate of my reef tank?

  • UV sterilizer and h202 dosing

    Votes: 20 80.0%
  • Remove all corals and inverts…hyposalinity to the DT

    Votes: 5 20.0%

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jmichaelh7

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I have 2 quarantine tanks going right now. You can just dose seachem prime everyday. Assuming you are using copper power, prime is a hard no with cupramine. That will save you alot of work doing waterchanges, and water changes that frequently are stressful on the fish. It detoxifies the ammonia. I use fritz turbo start to cycle the tank quickly, and dose prime until the ammonia us gone. If your badge is yellow, you should be getting pretty low on the ammonia.
How often are you doing wc with prime
 

Lowell Lemon

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One person having success is not a call to action for everyone to jump in and copy. It takes repeatable results to have that.

If one person doesn’t die from cancer from smoking daily, should everyone smoke daily? If one person has an adult tang in a 10 gallon tank that never died, should everyone keep tangs in 10 gallons?

It doesn’t work like that. Paul B’s tank is not repeatable success. You cannot replicate that environment and guarantee the same results.
There are others like Lasse, Atoll, Najer, ect. It is just like Covid-19...very political lol! People who have success don't often find themselves on the disease threads.

I helped many fish stores, maintenance customers, and hobbiest use other methods with success over 25 plus years so I believe other methods work besides prophylaxis.
 

Lionfish hunter

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Milliliter of sea water contains 10 million viruses, 1 million bacteria, and about 1000 protozoa and algae. Source Costal Wiki. So your misunderstanding about dilution of sea water was just brought into question. Each of these facts also point to the complicated nature of both the food Web in the ocean and how to best treat the fish that live there. Paul is doing his best to keep those forces in balance naturally. Striping fish of its natural immunity via chemical treatments may not be the best for long term success.

Just a thought.
You have no clue what I was talking about. When a fish with ich in the ocean has the ich fall off and turn into 240 new parasites, there are trillions of gallons it is dispersed into. In a fish tank that 1 parasite turns into 240 which infect the fish multi times, and a few days later there are thousands of parasites in a tiny cube. This is what happens, this is why you're f***** if ich gets in your tank.

Somebody needs to teach you about immunity. Chemical treatments do not strip immunity, that is not how it works. Immunity is gained by the body being exposed to something and beating it, assuming the body has the possibility of becoming to immune to said pathogen. Immunity to ich and velvet even being possible, is not even clear. But certainly no lost immunity from medication, no chance.
 

Lionfish hunter

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T
One person having success is not a call to action for everyone to jump in and copy. It takes repeatable results to have that.

If one person doesn’t die from cancer from smoking daily, should everyone smoke daily? If one person has an adult tang in a 10 gallon tank that never died, should everyone keep tangs in 10 gallons?

It doesn’t work like that. Paul B’s tank is not repeatable success. You cannot replicate that environment and guarantee the same results.
This exactly. One person having success, there are many variables that could effect the outcome that we don't see. And this coming from a guy that is so full of himself that he refuses to answer any real question with a response other than I have nothing to prove, I wrote a book.
 

Lionfish hunter

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Let it be clear to all, knowingly putting ich in your tank is a certain death sentence to the fish and inverts you have a responsibility to keep alive. Practicing ich management with tangs is some of the worst advice anybody could ever give you. And don't even get me started with velvet. I don't care how old your tank is, there will be tens of thousands of velvet parasites in your tank in a week. I may not have the 50 years experience Paul has. But I do have 20, and I am talking from experience. There was a time I didn't quarantine because I couldn't afford to and really didn't want to. In the end, I actually couldn't afford not to. And all the fish that died because of that is very sad.
 

Lionfish hunter

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How often are you doing wc with prime
I have heard speculation on here that prime loses some effectiveness after extended dosing without water changes. I do not know how much truth there is to that if any. It wouldn't hurt to do a water change after a week if there is still ammonia. Not what I do, but fyi.
 

Lionfish hunter

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here is a current thread on who quarantines. Don’t take it from me, I would listen to all the people who said they learned the hard way. Then basically only Paul chiming in that you don’t need to quarantine.
 

Dolphins18

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here is a current thread on who quarantines. Don’t take it from me, I would listen to all the people who said they learned the hard way. Then basically only Paul chiming in that you don’t need to quarantine.
fwiw, Paul isn't the only one who thinks that way. The majority of people I know who have been in the hobby for a long time (myself included) do not do traditional quarantine.
Not saying you are wrong by any means - just more than one way to skin a cat
 

jordan10

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True... but I believe ICH constantly exists in a tank at a low level as part of doooozens of parasites all living in ones tank.

A fish gets ICH when their immune system dips and they are in a position not to immediately fight it off.

Much like us humans.... every day of our life we are breathing in cold and flu viruses. We only get sick when our immunity takes a dip: overworked, not eating well, exposed to cold weather too long, mental stress, etc. All factors in our immunity taking a dip

Tangs require an environment conducive to keeping their immune systems clicking along in a well being state.




.
I like how you and few others put it. And I totally agree. And from my understanding tangs are more prone to get ich.
 

Lionfish hunter

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fwiw, Paul isn't the only one who thinks that way. The majority of people I know who have been in the hobby for a long time (myself included) do not do traditional quarantine.
Not saying you are wrong by any means - just more than one way to skin a cat
I am not sure what you mean by traditional qt. Anything other than putting stressed fish with probable disease in a tank full of healthy fish is to some degree what I consider qt. You can take it as far as you want from there on a risk reward basis for yourself. Paul basically says putting a stressed fish in an aquarium with ich for example, will be just fine. It is hard to comprehend.
 

ying yang

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here is a current thread on who quarantines. Don’t take it from me, I would listen to all the people who said they learned the hard way. Then basically only Paul chiming in that you don’t need to quarantine.
Thats not actually true about that thread,most are saying thete for qt but that doesnt mean they actually qt,i just re-read first few pages and most saying that they for qt or indecidded,and was defo more than paul who said didnt qt,and with threads like this or one i started last week,it seems if disagree with qt then get called names or get told you advising people wrongly so maybe people who dont qt are scared actually saying anything incase get ridiculed. And sorry for spelling mistakes,phone wont do spell check or let me delete lol,new phone coming in post tommorrow hopefully

Edit: phone lets me dekete so corrected nistakes ha ha
 
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Lionfish hunter

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I like how you and few others put it. And I totally agree. And from my understanding tangs are more prone to get ich.
people, ich has a known lifecycle. This is a fact, it does not just magically come out of thin air. Break the life cycle, there will be no ich until ich is added again. This is not an opinion, it is a fact.
 

Dolphins18

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I am not sure what you mean by traditional qt. Anything other than putting stressed fish with probable disease in a tank full of healthy fish is to some degree what I consider qt. You can take it as far as you want from there on a risk reward basis for yourself. Paul basically says putting a stressed fish in an aquarium with ich for example, will be just fine. It is hard to comprehend.
Not really. All of my tanks have ich and always have. I have 4 tangs, every once in a while I will see a few spots. They have an immune system, and ich is not some "deadly fish killing disease" or there wouldn't be any left in the ocean ;)
 

Lionfish hunter

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Thats not actually trur about that thread,most are saying thete for qt but that doesnt mean they actually qt,i just re-read first few pages and most saying that they for qt or indecidded,and was defo more than paup .paul who said didnt qt,and with threads pike this or one i started last week,it seems if disagree with qt then get called names or get told you advising people wrongly so maybe people who dont qt are scared acyually saying anything incase get ridiculed. And sorry for spelling mistaies,phone wont do spell check or let me delete lol,new phone coming in post tommorrow hopefully
Almost nobody, Said quarantine doesnt work. Many said they dont quarantine, but agree there is a risk.
 

Lionfish hunter

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Not really. All of my tanks have ich and always have. I have 4 tangs, every once in a while I will see a few spots. They have an immune system, and ich is not some "deadly fish killing disease" or there wouldn't be any left in the ocean ;)
When a stressed fish has ich in a tiny bowl of water, the parasite load is thousands of times higher than the ocean.
 

ying yang

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I am not sure what you mean by traditional qt. Anything other than putting stressed fish with probable disease in a tank full of healthy fish is to some degree what I consider qt. You can take it as far as you want from there on a risk reward basis for yourself. Paul basically says putting a stressed fish in an aquarium with ich for example, will be just fine. It is hard to comprehend.
He actually says alot more than this what he does,like lots hiding places for fish plus lots other stuff that you do to tank before even add water and continue after tank set up,but he also states lots times he would probably do some kind of qt if was new or setting up tank,but will let him answer that himself but basically im saying he doesnt just say get a sick fish and plonk it in dt lol but he also said and i think in this thread if a cheap fish severley sick then would treat with copper,dont quote ke on this as im not paul but sure he wrote this somewhere.

Basically more than just plop and drop ^_^
 

Lionfish hunter

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Thats not actually trur about that thread,most are saying thete for qt but that doesnt mean they actually qt,i just re-read first few pages and most saying that they for qt or indecidded,and was defo more than paup .paul who said didnt qt,and with threads pike this or one i started last week,it seems if disagree with qt then get called names or get told you advising people wrongly so maybe people who dont qt are scared acyually saying anything incase get ridiculed. And sorry for spelling mistaies,phone wont do spell check or let me delete lol,new phone coming in post tommorrow hopefully
please reread what I said. Paul actively advises against qt. Almost all others in this thread admit the risk.
 
BRS

Have you ever torn down a tank over an issue you couldn't seem to beat?

  • Yes! I have. (Tell us about what issue you faced in the thread.)

    Votes: 173 24.1%
  • No. Thankfully, I haven't.

    Votes: 371 51.7%
  • Nope, but it almost happened. (Share your experience in the thread.)

    Votes: 52 7.3%
  • Not yet, but I'm almost there. (Tell us what you're dealing with.)

    Votes: 60 8.4%
  • If you reef long enough, this will eventually happen to you.

    Votes: 47 6.6%
  • Other

    Votes: 14 2.0%
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