The importance of live bacteria in food

Discussion in 'Aquarium Nutrition' started by Paul B, Apr 13, 2017.

  1. Paul B

    Paul B Valuable Member R2R Supporter Reef Spotlight Award Reef Tank 365 Article Contributor Build Thread Contributor

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2010
    Messages:
    7,779
    Likes Received:
    13,510
    Location:
    Long Island NY
    Chilled tanks are a real pain to maintain for a few reasons so you really need to move to the coast. You can come here, drive east and bear right at the Statue of Liberty. :D
     
    WandaMay likes this.

  2. WandaMay

    WandaMay Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2017
    Messages:
    56
    Likes Received:
    21
    Getting the car packed now for a visit Paul :) I have been driving myself crazy for 2 days figuring out how to order/house some black worms. None of my LFS carry them so I am stuck ordering online. Is there a difference that makes black worms much better for fish compared to other worms (other than size obviously) I plan to get some white worms too but was also considering red worms, small earthworms (or freshly chopped earthworms) I also found some microworms on a fw sight that are supposed to be easily cultured and reproduce rapidly. Seperate from worms I found whole octopus for sale at grocery store, I could chop up mantle and freeze for fish and hubby can have tentacles. Do you think there is great benefit in that? (For fish not hubby lol) When I go to Oregon coast critters won't make it alive but I could collect food - whole mussels, fish guts, etc and chop and freeze?
     
  3. Paul B

    Paul B Valuable Member R2R Supporter Reef Spotlight Award Reef Tank 365 Article Contributor Build Thread Contributor

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2010
    Messages:
    7,779
    Likes Received:
    13,510
    Location:
    Long Island NY
    Wanda, I think any type of worm would be fine because it is most important the bacteria in the worm that will keep up the immunity of the fish. I use blackworms and whiteworms and when I am in a collecting mood, earthworms. Blackworms are hard to come by now due to the drought in California. I am surprised people elsewhere don't grow them, it's not lie you have to send them to college or anything but you need a fresh water source.
    Before you order worms on line you either need a large refrigerator or a worm keeper like I built. But for a lot of worms it would have to be cycled very well with some dead fish or something that rots, and that may stink. It takes a while to cycle a worm tank but once it's cycled, you can keep worms forever. If I get time I am going to build a much larger worm keeper so I can get them in bulk.
    Let me know when you are passing the Statue of Liberty. :D
     
    WandaMay likes this.
  4. londonloco

    londonloco Member R2R Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2013
    Messages:
    20
    Likes Received:
    14
    Location:
    Virginia
    I've always wanted a cold water marine tank also......haven't made the plunge yet, but someday, maybe. There is a fb page: Coldwater Marine Aquarium Owners, join and read, it's very interesting.
     
    WandaMay likes this.
  5. WandaMay

    WandaMay Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2017
    Messages:
    56
    Likes Received:
    21
    I will look that up Thanks :)
     
  6. WandaMay

    WandaMay Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2017
    Messages:
    56
    Likes Received:
    21
    For worms I was going to try to build a worm house I was thinking of a sponge filter and maybe soaking sponge in my sons guppy tank to help cycle some but I may try other worms because it is getting so hot here. I could keep I fridge but that limits the size of container (my hubby has fish eggs he cures for homemade bait) I actually have access to alot of stuff for homemade fish food now that I think about it but really want to go for live bacteria like you......so live worms should be my base I think. For summer I think I will start with white worms and look around for small worms I can raise in a soil wormbox because I can keep them easier during the summer
     
  7. Paul B

    Paul B Valuable Member R2R Supporter Reef Spotlight Award Reef Tank 365 Article Contributor Build Thread Contributor

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2010
    Messages:
    7,779
    Likes Received:
    13,510
    Location:
    Long Island NY
    You can use any live or freshly frozen worms or fish eggs if your fish eat them. Some eggs they won't eat for some reason.
     
    WandaMay likes this.
  8. WandaMay

    WandaMay Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2017
    Messages:
    56
    Likes Received:
    21
    Thanks for your help Paul I am currently setting up a white worm culture, vinegar eels and microworms for experimenting this summer.
     
  9. Paul B

    Paul B Valuable Member R2R Supporter Reef Spotlight Award Reef Tank 365 Article Contributor Build Thread Contributor

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2010
    Messages:
    7,779
    Likes Received:
    13,510
    Location:
    Long Island NY
    Wanda your fish are going to have a People crush on you. :p

    I was just perusing the thread about if your DT can be completely free and it boggles my mind all that people go through to keep disease out rather than just make the fish immune which is a thousand times less work and much easier on the fish. But maybe it's me because I am a simple Man. :D
     
    WandaMay likes this.
  10. Areseebee

    Areseebee Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2016
    Messages:
    485
    Likes Received:
    359
    I don't know why fish get disease at all, it's so much more work, they should just not have disease.
     
  11. WandaMay

    WandaMay Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2017
    Messages:
    56
    Likes Received:
    21
    I have always tried to keep tanks as cheap as possible and as naturally as possible I learned through experience years ago with my FW tanks they were healthier when they aged and I did not constantly mess with them. Just good food and minimal maintenance I am a huge undergravel filter fan LOL I don't know why I never considered using one in SW. I also have to give credit to my 7 year old son, Dyllan regarding the worms. He has big plans to be a great caretaker. He is awaiting the cultures arruval like we would wait for a shipment of new corals. LOL He is also very excited to see how this new food helps his breeding guppy tank ;)
     
  12. Paul B

    Paul B Valuable Member R2R Supporter Reef Spotlight Award Reef Tank 365 Article Contributor Build Thread Contributor

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2010
    Messages:
    7,779
    Likes Received:
    13,510
    Location:
    Long Island NY
    His guppies will breed like rabbits if they eat worms. :rolleyes:

    Exactly!
     
    WandaMay and saltyfilmfolks like this.
  13. Brew12

    Brew12 Electrical Gru R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Reef Squad Leader Reef Tank 365 Article Contributor Build Thread Contributor Partner Member 2018

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2016
    Messages:
    12,173
    Likes Received:
    18,902
    Location:
    Decatur, AL
    @Paul B Have you done any research or have any thoughts to the role natural fats play in fish immunity? As I continue to do research into fish immunity I keep coming across fats as being just as important as the bacteria.
     
    saltyfilmfolks likes this.
  14. Paul B

    Paul B Valuable Member R2R Supporter Reef Spotlight Award Reef Tank 365 Article Contributor Build Thread Contributor

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2010
    Messages:
    7,779
    Likes Received:
    13,510
    Location:
    Long Island NY
    The only fat I researched and know about is fish oil which is a big part of a natural diet for fish. A fishes liver is about a fifth of it's weight and it is all oil. When a fish eats another fish it gets a big part of it's diet as oil. That is missing in dry foods because it goes bad and stinks. I take the stuff myself every day and I never had ich. I assume worms contain oil in their liver as do clams, Mysis and fish.
    You can't beat live foods because you don't get fish oil in other foods which is why it comes in capsules, to protect it from oxygen that spoils it.
    Fish don't really have any solid fat because they are cold blooded and it wouldn't circulate in their systems. Our solid fat liquefies in our warm bodies so it can circulate in our blood and clog our arteries. As far as I know fish don't get heart attacks, but I am guessing as I never saw one grab their chest and keel over. :eek:

    Healthy fish are spawning fish and those eggs which are a large part of a fishes weight is almost all oil.
     
    Be102, tweeter, norfolkgarden and 2 others like this.
  15. mcarroll

    mcarroll Valuable Member R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2012
    Messages:
    13,050
    Likes Received:
    6,362
    Location:
    Virginia
    Brew12 likes this.
  16. Paul B

    Paul B Valuable Member R2R Supporter Reef Spotlight Award Reef Tank 365 Article Contributor Build Thread Contributor

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2010
    Messages:
    7,779
    Likes Received:
    13,510
    Location:
    Long Island NY
    Oh yeah, I wrote those. :rolleyes:
     
    Brew12 likes this.
  17. Carlos Danger

    Carlos Danger Active Member

    Joined:
    May 15, 2017
    Messages:
    226
    Likes Received:
    95
    Location:
    Meridian, ID
    I second that, I love all the good stuff thats in there.
     
  18. Paul B

    Paul B Valuable Member R2R Supporter Reef Spotlight Award Reef Tank 365 Article Contributor Build Thread Contributor

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2010
    Messages:
    7,779
    Likes Received:
    13,510
    Location:
    Long Island NY
    WandaMay, How far have you come on your trip to the coast? My boat is in the water and I have started collecting. I plan to go this week to my favorite tide pool for some amphipods which still have their winter coats on.
    I got some grass shrimp this week for my mangrove tank. I can't put them in my reef because as soon as a fish sees them, they get scared and jump on to my lights and stick there. They hate when that happens.

    See the pregnant grass shrimp in there with 6,127 babies under her belly.
    I can collect hundreds of them around my boat. Great food but all my fish are to small to eat them.

    [​IMG]
     
  19. bif24701

    bif24701 Valuable Member Build Thread Contributor

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2016
    Messages:
    3,019
    Likes Received:
    2,118
    what about all the live foods produced from a large refugium?
     
  20. mcarroll

    mcarroll Valuable Member R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2012
    Messages:
    13,050
    Likes Received:
    6,362
    Location:
    Virginia
    Quality of bacteria should be good, but....

    How large is "large"?

    And how much "food" can actually make it to the tank in a given day?

    Not a bad idea at all, but how much could one rely on just that for food is a pretty open question.

    Seems like as a food item they could be Omega3-challenged due to the lack of phytoplankton in our systems too.

    Just thoughts. :)
     
Draft saved Draft deleted

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice
Loading...