The importance of live bacteria in food

Discussion in 'Aquarium Nutrition' started by Paul B, Apr 13, 2017.

  1. Paul B

    Paul B Valuable Member R2R Supporter Reef Spotlight Award Reef Tank 365 Article Contributor Build Thread Contributor

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    I think live food should be available growing in any tank but I also believe that will have to be drastically supplemented as most fish will eat all available food very quickly.
     
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  2. Williamthegr88

    Williamthegr88 Active Member

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    I started feeding my fish black worms this past week after I have read a few times on here from your post about the benefits got to say they love them not sure if it's making a difference in immunity but I do like to add to the variety of food they receive thanks for the info
     
  3. Paul B

    Paul B Valuable Member R2R Supporter Reef Spotlight Award Reef Tank 365 Article Contributor Build Thread Contributor

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    Sounds like a good plan. But you need to keep feeding them, not just once in a while.
     
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  4. Williamthegr88

    Williamthegr88 Active Member

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    Yes I will at least every other day I think would work
     
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  5. bif24701

    bif24701 Valuable Member Build Thread Contributor

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    That's why I've been considering buying these pods and the phytoplankton from AlgaeBarn
    https://www.algaebarn.com/product/combo-5280-pods-oceanmagik-phyto/

    They are supposed to reproduce in the aquarium.
     
  6. Paul B

    Paul B Valuable Member R2R Supporter Reef Spotlight Award Reef Tank 365 Article Contributor Build Thread Contributor

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    Maybe, I don't know anything about them.
     
  7. tweeter

    tweeter Well-Known Member

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    Can red wigglers like you get from the bait store be fed and even garden worms? We compost a lot, so it would certainly have live bacteria in them!
     
  8. Paul B

    Paul B Valuable Member R2R Supporter Reef Spotlight Award Reef Tank 365 Article Contributor Build Thread Contributor

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    I don't know anything about red wigglers but I have used earthworms many times to feed eels, lionfish, triggerfish, puffers and porcupine fish. I have also fed them to anemones.
     
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  9. tweeter

    tweeter Well-Known Member

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    I was always afraid to try them in my saltwater. I had freshwater for years and fed crickets all the time to my Archer. He would eat from my hand. That was the coolest fish I've ever had!
     
  10. yort265

    yort265 Member

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    @Paul B This may be a stupid question... can bacteria survive and still be beneficial in frozen foods that contain probiotics &/or blackworms like the LRS foods that have been mentioned? Would this be an acceptable alternative to 100% live all the time feedings?
     
  11. ReefFrenzy

    ReefFrenzy Shrimp Pimp R2R Supporter Gold Sponsor

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    Absolutely bacteria remains viable and beneficial even after freezing. We know bacteria survived the ice age and heat is much more detrimental to bacteria than the cold, hence the reason we boil water to render it safe.

    We first began experimenting with active bacteria cultures in our foods in early 2013. We simply brought to ornamental fish food what had worked in aquaculture for the farming of fish, shrimp and mollusks for human consumption. In the beginning many people speculated probiotics were a gimmick. Nearly 6 years later with almost a dozen captive breeding breakthroughs occurring while using our foods (http://www.larrysreefservices.com/testimonials.html) probiotics are popping up on other frozen fish food labels. Over the last five years we have done extensive testing on our foods to make sure that the goal of 1M CFU, or Colony Forming Units per gram is met within the typical lifespan of a pack of food. We have had lab tests published on our website as well as other info here: http://www.larrysreefservices.com/probiotics.html

    This is a test certificate from one of the first samples of LRS and was used as a starting point to dial back the amount of probiotics needed.

    Probiotics.jpg

    [/user]
     
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  12. Zoaeasy

    Zoaeasy Active Member R2R Supporter Partner Member 2018

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    Just read through this whole thread to get this answer!
    (Apart from the pleasure of reading Paul B's ascerbic wit)
    Do you sell in Canada as well?
    Apart from that, can you freeze fresh clams and oysters and slice pieces off to feed?
     
  13. ReefFrenzy

    ReefFrenzy Shrimp Pimp R2R Supporter Gold Sponsor

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    We do have several retailers in Canada but it is always best to call the LFS before heading down. Our distributor orders frequently and clears our food through customs, but like anything some stores sell out faster than others. You can enter your zip code here: http://www.larrysreefservices.com/where-to-buy-lrs.html

    Fresh clams and oysters work great for finicky feeders, and I've seen great results with them after being frozen as well. There is a good amount of clam and oyster in our foods too.

    Good luck and thanks for reading to learn more about nutrition and foods!
     
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  14. Paul B

    Paul B Valuable Member R2R Supporter Reef Spotlight Award Reef Tank 365 Article Contributor Build Thread Contributor

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    I actually use Larrys food every day along with my own clams and blackworms. If I could not get clams and worms, I would just use Larry's food. I am very old school and supplement my fish with other foods even though I know Larry has beneficial bacteria in his foods. But besides Larry's excellent foods I like to keep my fish immune from bacterial diseases "and" parasites. I am not sure if freezing will kill parasites, but I assume it will. Most people do not want live parasites in their food so Larry's would be the first choice.
    Very few people can keep their tank immune from parasites but if you would like to do that, you may need to supplement any frozen food with something live at least occasionally to keep up the fishes immunity from those pathogens.
    I would not expect Larry to add live parasites to his foods and I am sure no one else wants that either as that would immediately kill his business but most people do not run a tank like I do.
     
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  15. Brew12

    Brew12 Electrical Gru Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Reef Tank 365 Partner Member 2018 Article Contributor Build Thread Contributor North Alabama Reef Club

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    Just to add some clarification. All bacteria do not remain viable when frozen. There are a lot of factors that go into how many bacteria will survive a freezing. I don't want people thinking they can cut up live food, freeze it, and expect 100% of the bacteria to still be viable. Odds are only 10% to 40% will survive. Multiple thaws and freezing will continue to kill off bacteria.

    This is why the lab testing that LRS does is so important. It is the only way to know how their exact freezing process will impact bacteria populations.
     
  16. ReefFrenzy

    ReefFrenzy Shrimp Pimp R2R Supporter Gold Sponsor

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    Thanks Paul for the kind words and we always appreciate your seasoned support. There are white papers written that demonstrate a freeze does in fact kill off parasites I'm not 100% sure about ALL parasites but here was one discussed a few months ago online specifically about Cryptocaryon irritans.

    @Brew12 Thanks for clarifying that about the time and deterioration. I was still on my first cup of coffee! I made a brief mention of it in my post but you are correct that over time bacterial counts diminish. In our experience since we don't sit on inventory here for very long and it flies out of the stores so fast it remains plenty viable by the time the hobbyist receives and uses it.
     
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  17. Brew12

    Brew12 Electrical Gru Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Reef Tank 365 Partner Member 2018 Article Contributor Build Thread Contributor North Alabama Reef Club

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    Mmmm.. coffee!!!
    coffee.jpg
     
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  18. Zoaeasy

    Zoaeasy Active Member R2R Supporter Partner Member 2018

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    Has anyone tried to acclimate live clams to a sump and then " harvest them as needed?" Most of the clams and oysters in my neighbourhood comes from the pacific off the BC coast. The other option would be to have a small cold water tank similar to the food store . I also think that most these would stay alive for a day or two in the fridge.
    The other option would be to just invite the fish over for a regular clam vongole every week.
     
  19. Brew12

    Brew12 Electrical Gru Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Reef Tank 365 Partner Member 2018 Article Contributor Build Thread Contributor North Alabama Reef Club

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    Maybe @saltyfilmfolks ? Not sure he feeds them to his fish though.
     
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  20. saltyfilmfolks

    saltyfilmfolks Lights! Camera! Reef! R2R Supporter Reef Squad Leader Photo of the Month Award R2R Excellence Award Build Thread Contributor

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    You are correct , they are temperate , not tropical so you'd need cold water to keep them alive.
    As bizzare as it sounds , a bucket of salt water and a piece of live rock in your fridge would probably work long term . You'd need flow though like a small pump.
    Most of the ones at the store would probably be too damaged to survive.
     
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