The importance of nitrite measurements in a reef aquarium

[Christoph]

Hi @Lasse, interesting thread, thanks! I was not aware of the problem of nitrites in interfering with nitrate test readings. A few questions:

1) By how much does the existing nitrite affect the nitrate readings? E.g. if there is 0.1 ppm nitrite, how far off will the nitrate reading be?

2) Is it possible to have nitrites in an existing tank, over a long period of time? Or is it only a problem in a new setup? My nitrates always used to run around 20-30 ppm and I have now got them down to about 5 ppm, but I am wondering if the previous high readings were artificially high due to existence of nitrite, and my apparent drop in nitrates is really because the nitrites came down.

Hello,

sorry, only in german:



best regards,
Christoph

 

[Lasse]

Hello,

sorry, only in german:



best regards,
Christoph

You have to do a new version of that excellent demonstration but in English

Hi @Lasse, interesting thread, thanks! I was not aware of the problem of nitrites in interfering with nitrate test readings. A few questions:

1) By how much does the existing nitrite affect the nitrate readings? E.g. if there is 0.1 ppm nitrite, how far off will the nitrate reading be?

It depends on - the test I use for the moment (Fauna Marine nitrite-nitrate Pro test) have a multiplication factor of 100. Tropic Marines similar test probably the same. other tests like Saliferts, Red seas and others - I do not know. I have seen some indications that some of them can use a multiplication factor of 50. This means that if you read a nitrite concentration of 0,02 - it will affect your nitrate readings with 2 ppm if you use a test with multiplication factor of 100 - 1 ppm if it is 50 . If your nitrate concentration show 50 ppm - it does not matter - but if it show something below 10 ppm - it can have importance to know the nitrite concentration

2) Is it possible to have nitrites in an existing tank, over a long period of time? Or is it only a problem in a new setup? My nitrates always used to run around 20-30 ppm and I have now got them down to about 5 ppm, but I am wondering if the previous high readings were artificially high due to existence of nitrite, and my apparent drop in nitrates is really because the nitrites came down.

Ye it is - IMO - common to have nitrite in low numbers (0,01 - 0,05 ppm) even in mature tanks but it - as I said before normally of no importance if you read 30 ppm - it will max alter your reading with 5 ppm but if you read 5 ppm nitrate and have 0.05 in nitrite - you can be in trouble. However - in newly started tanks (no completed cycle) people often report very high nitrate readings and this high readings is - IMO - only depended of high nitrite levels - not real nitrate.

Sincerely Lasse

 

[sas226]

Offhand whats how large of an impact do nitrites have on nitrates tests.. I have a small amount of nitrites and was trying to get an accurate nitrate reading and that just doesn't seem to be possible. I'm talking hundreds of PPM of nitrates several hours after near 90% water change. This is several weeks into having a small cleanup grew in the tank and a small bit of algae growth and several other water changes. I'm not concerned, I'm more curious about my actual nitrate levels. I know they are reasonable as everything in my tank is still alive and doing well. Just.. never one to let things go unknown.. or at least try not to.

 

[|Tom the Bomb|]

Hanna checker gives the result in NO2-N. It means that you should multiply your 10 ppb with 3,29 which will give you 32,9 ppb NO2. -> 0,0329 ppm NO2. If your Nitrate test use 50 as conversion factor - you should take away 1.6 ppm from NO3 readings - if the conversion factor is 100 - 3.29 ppm should be redrawn. What complicate thing is that the accuracy of the Hanna ULR test is ± 10 ppb. Your real result can vary between 0 and 20 ppb (0 and 0,0568 ppm).

Sincerely Lasse

i don't use Hanna for nitrate (oh wait is there even a nitrate checker although I want one）also I don't understand half of what ur saying so LOL but great article I think I got the basics

 

[montethemoster]

I think Lasse is saying that nitrites only account for a significant portion of the “nitrate” reading from a nitrate test kit if you are getting values <10 ppm. If you are getting higher “nitrate” readings it is less likely the presence of nitrite is significantly contributing to higher “nitrate” readings.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Offhand whats how large of an impact do nitrites have on nitrates tests.. I have a small amount of nitrites and was trying to get an accurate nitrate reading and that just doesn't seem to be possible. I'm talking hundreds of PPM of nitrates several hours after near 90% water change. This is several weeks into having a small cleanup grew in the tank and a small bit of algae growth and several other water changes. I'm not concerned, I'm more curious about my actual nitrate levels. I know they are reasonable as everything in my tank is still alive and doing well. Just.. never one to let things go unknown.. or at least try not to.

Can be 100x.

1 ppm nitrite = 100 ppm nitrate false reading.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I think Lasse is saying that nitrites only account for a significant portion of the “nitrate” reading from a nitrate test kit if you are getting values <10 ppm. If you are getting higher “nitrate” readings it is less likely the presence of nitrite is significantly contributing to higher “nitrate” readings.

Well, whether he said it or not, it isn't true.

1 ppm nitrite will read as 100 ppm nitrate with some hobby kits.

 

[montethemoster]

Well, whether he said it or not, it isn't true.

1 ppm nitrite will read as 100 ppm nitrate with some hobby kits.

I believe that is what Lasse said.

 

[brandon429]

I enjoyed reading Lasse's detailed writeup, we have a good post trade history for debate and I like to read what he has to say. My passion against nitrite readings is really just displacement from hundreds of algae help threads and hundreds of cycling threads, all we do is remove perceived gateways/blocks/limitations in those threads in order to get a job done, and they're turning out just fine per updates.

The #1 hesitation mechanism in all of reefing is perceived free / uncontrolled ammonia, stalled cycle claims. I have never seen one stalled cycle in thousands of threads, no joke. not one. they're all false reads. We can't find a single stalled nh3 reef referencing every seneye owner we can find online.


the #2 hesitation in all of reefing is perceived uncontrolled nitrite


by specifically designing work threads around the new information that nh3 control doesnt stall past a predictable date, and nitrite will never matter in any phase of reefing, we are doing really well across threads. no hesitation, reefs are getting fixed from invasion and cycles progress on the exact date we predict they will be ready.

I cannot count the number of times we couldnt get someone to clean a tank because one or both of those params said 'not ready'

same for cycles, Ill come across cycles online where they've been waiting 65 days for api ammonia or nirite to allow a start, one of those is linked prior here. The new reefer who waited 65 days thinks bacteria can't tolerate anything, they automatically start hands-off and will ride it into a full tank invasion 80% of the time.

all due to measuring nitrite.

 

[sas226]

Well, whether he said it or not, it isn't true.

1 ppm nitrite will read as 100 ppm nitrate with some hobby kits.

Thank you very much.
Also, @montethemoster If he did I'm sorry I missed it, it was very late last night and probably not the best time to be trying to take in information.

 

[montethemoster]

It depends on - the test I use for the moment (Fauna Marine nitrite-nitrate Pro test) have a multiplication factor of 100.

No problem.

 

[Lasse]

I believe that is what Lasse said.

I was a little unclear in my statement - i was referred to the average between 0.01 - 0.05 nitrite found in many mature reefs - in these condition - it does not matter so much with nitrate readings above 10. But of cause if the nitrite readings are higher - it can matter. But my statement was based on the average levels of nitrite I have seen and heard about. In a stalled nitrification cycle you can read much higher nitrite levels and ir is reflected in the nitrate readings. That´s the reason why it is - IMO - wortles to analyse nitrate before the nitrite has drop down to levels below 0.05 ppm

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Lasse]

The #1 hesitation mechanism in all of reefing is perceived free / uncontrolled ammonia, stalled cycle claims. I have never seen one stalled cycle in thousands of threads, no joke. not one. they're all false reads. We can't find a single stalled nh3 reef referencing every seneye owner we can find online.

How many times do I need to highlight that a complete nitrification consists of two steps and nitrite build up show that step two does not work as it should. The nitrite build up is the result of a stalled cycle just between the two steps. No one has said that step 1 does not work (at least not totally) in a stalled cycle - it works partly - the nitrite build up is just a result of at least a partly functional step 1 - which end product is just nitrite.

Sincerely Lasse

 

[K7BMG]

Thanks everyone for the information in this thread.
Its a complex beast when it comes to the Nitrogen Cycle.
I appreciate the efforts and dedication of those who take the time.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I believe that is what Lasse said.

Yes, but that is not the interpretation that you literally wrote.

 

[brandon429]

Aquavitro Seed lacking results - new tank

anyone have experience with Aquavitro Seed on a new tank? I recently started up a new to me waterbox 135.4 and decided to start fresh with dry rock and live sand. One of my LFSs recommended Aquavitro Seed to get the tank cycled, and considering it’s a concentrated bottle for under $20 I decided...

www.reef2reef.com

A specific work thread related to this thread.


nitrite cycling w not be used. we showed how to proof using only ammonia.


we can at least have a small collection of new starts here, to scan for problems in omitting nitrite from the determined start date.

 

[Lasse]

For the books - I have always cycled my tanks without any testing at all, indeed my step 14 in my article claims

14) Do not test water parameters. Wait until the aquarium is a few months old or you have a lot of hard corals. Once the aquarium has established itself for a few months you can start testing if you want to. The most important thing to test is calcium and alkalinity if you have hard corals. Now it is also time to start--if you want— start testing and change the values of inorganic nutrients like PO4 and NO3 with one or another method.

I know that my method do not form any nitrite or ammoniac spikes - therefore no test is needed.

But I will not name it old versus new method. The name I use is experience

However if anyone use methods like rotten shrimp, ghost feeding or liquid ammonia adding - a nitrite test is rather good to have in order to know when the nitrification process works as it should with both steps

Sincerely Lasse

 

[ScottR]

Not to throw a wrench in the thread but I feel we talk too much about ammonia and NO2 in this hobby. I have never tested for either (maybe once or twice?) in my off-and-on 20 year experience in this hobby. However, this is an excellent write up and great responses.

 

[sas226]

Not to throw a wrench in the thread but I feel we talk too much about ammonia and NO2 in this hobby. I have never tested for either (maybe once or twice?) in my off-and-on 20 year experience in this hobby. However, this is an excellent write up and great responses.

It's one of those things that people entering the hobby have drilled into their head repeatedly. Ignoring a few circumstances you shouldn't need to worry about either. Just google "Starting a reef tank" you're hammered from the word go about how insanely important Ammonia is. They aren't wrong, what they fail to tell you is it's a rarity to see ammonia once a tank is actually running, at least IMHO.

 

[brandon429]

fully agreed. we've also been using testers that show free ammonia in about 75% of sampled reefs no matter the status, to form our entire concept of what bacteria do and what they can tolerate. it is also a very handy coincidence that we can buy a bottled tonic to remedy a doubt in what bacteria can pull off.

quite a beneficial arrangement: tonics to cure lack of nh3 control and free nitrite measures, and testers that will indicate need 75% of the time and complete peer reinforcement of the entire loop.

$ wheels turning