The microbiology of reef tank cycling.

[brandon429]

Cycling with fish, high nitrates please help

I have a 13.5 gallon sea evo 10 pounds of live rock Crushed coral substrate My tank is 7 days old , I have used bacteria since day 1 , I added 2 clownfish on day 5 7th day test results are as follows: 7.8 ph 0.50 ammonia 2.0 nitrite 40ppm nitrate I suspect my ammonia is due to to much...

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Our hobby will always doubt the ability to skip cycle independent of what marine aquarium conventions do until seneye is in everyone's home

 

[richarddeweerd]

I juste ordered my Seneye to monitor my new tank.

 

[brandon429]

They’re so handy

even though ammonia isn’t ever going to do unpredictable things, they have par meters and other functions that will be handy, I think they do alerts too via web alarms I’d have to read up on that part to see

 

[LeprechaunReefer]

Brandon - I’m 2 weeks into a group A cycle. Ive cycled tanks this way before but, I’ve read a large potion of this thread only recently and want to be sure of specifics. Thank you for this info, btw.

I dosed ammonia to 2-2.5 with microbacter7 and it is now zero. It took About a week to do so.

In previous comments I believe I understood you to say that if I wait 30 days I’d be fully ready to add livestock.

Does the 24 hour digestion timeframe of bacteria consuming 2-4ppm of ammonia not matter if you simply wait the 30 day timeframe and you’ve consumed 2-4 ppm of ammonia once during that 30 days? Is the 30 days mentioned a sufficient way of ensuring a good enough bac population thus allowing you to avoid any further ammonia dosing? Or should I dose ammonia again until digestion of 2-4 ppm occurs within 24 hours?

 

[brandon429]

I am 100% sure your substrates are ready now those bottle bac strains only take a few days in the presence of feed to do their job, per Dr Reefs threads and per your testing for ammonia. Indeed waiting a month, when nearly all bottle bac strains are able within five days, was to overshoot for safety to allow zero testing.


In fact we vector in many filtration bacteria from the surroundings/nearly all water including potable water has nitrifying bacterial strains in it since preventing them takes lab procedures or boiling/ we dont deal in sterile water/ such that even if the bottle bac was dead that month + feed + vectored few natural bacteria have time to populate and still allow a safe start

all cycling charts show that timeframe / handy

the ongoing thesis of this thread is that we can trust cycles and bacteria to never stall or fail to complete, if the time frame + boosters used is considered for the wait period

 

[brandon429]

bump

 

[LeprechaunReefer]

I am 100% sure your substrates are ready now those bottle bac strains only take a few days in the presence of feed to do their job, per Dr Reefs threads and per your testing for ammonia. Indeed waiting a month, when nearly all bottle bac strains are able within five days, was to overshoot for safety to allow zero testing.


In fact we vector in many filtration bacteria from the surroundings/nearly all water including potable water has nitrifying bacterial strains in it since preventing them takes lab procedures or boiling/ we dont deal in sterile water/ such that even if the bottle bac was dead that month + feed + vectored few natural bacteria have time to populate and still allow a safe start

all cycling charts show that timeframe / handy

the ongoing thesis of this thread is that we can trust cycles and bacteria to never stall or fail to complete, if the time frame + boosters used is considered for the wait period

So what are your thoughts on elevated nitrates resulting from the cycle and how would you suggest reducing them before the addition of livestock? I show zero measurable nitrites on my salifert kit but nitrates are 100ppm. Is this nitrites throwing a false number at my nitrate test kit due to the way the reagents work? Do I just wait? Best export method suggestion?

 

[brandon429]

We don't factor nitrates in cycling that's better referenced as a type of algae control or color control for corals/ nitrate management

We only look for the down movement of ammonia if any testing is to be done because that's what defines the starting point.
After that, many ways to run exist, my preferred manner of control is keeping a clean sandbed and rocks, nitrate runs as it will

 

[Alexreefer]

Hey Brandon, hope you are well. Couple months later and the tank is looking better, algae growth has been sporadic, not sure if you factor in phosphates in your cycling process, My tank is over a year now and coraline is growing like weeds, hair algae is very persistent but i noticed it likes growing on the dry rock i added in the tank months ago. Could the rocks be leaching some phosphate and allow the hair algae to grow in those certain areas? I tested and it was high at around 0.6 so I got some gfo to bring it down which I will put in tomorrow.

 

[brandon429]

Bump


there are stalled cycle question threads we want to address


(no reef tank cycle stalls)

 

[brandon429]

Sulfuric acid (H2SO4) in reef tanks?

Due to corona my school was shut down and aquarium care was at a minimum. At the time I was an unpaid volunteer and just came by to feed the fish a couple times a week and refill a sump with DI water so it didn’t dry up. Turns out the facility manager was not doing water changes for an...

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skip cycle reassembly of Covid- destroyed reefs where people who care for the reefs were prevented from attending / topping off accurately / water care feeding and export all stopped

 

[richarddeweerd]

hey thank you for posting for sure, thats a very neat multi blend approach.

-yes, relocating the existing setup into far more gallons will skip cycle, bioload is not increasing beyond norms in a direct transfer. Increase direct feeding of corals to keep their internal nutrient stores safe; what the nitrate and phos read in the new + dilution system wont matter if corals are fed and fat.

Live rock does not build up a bacteria level to 'match' the number of fish we provide, thats a falsehood in the hobby. Live rock can always, always, instantly handle more bioload than what it carries without ramp up. even if you did add more fish it wont recycle, but for a direct transfer it for sure wont.

ramp up lights safely, the tendency is to punch through the new water depth/dont burn em. go light on whites, heavy on blues for the new bigger tank and ramp up intensity. max 9 hour photoperiod is nice, i use that for years.

your ocean water access is a liquid form of live rock bacteria, millions of cycling bac come from ocean water at all times, they ride the little rafts and such that float in ocean water and seed every where that water goes. its great stuff. that will add redundant bac to already ok bac.

*I forgot about real reef rock does that brand show up wet or dry

So I want to give you a heads up. My tank is now running for 2 and a half weeks. I measured Ammonia with a Seneye and I have seen noting of it. My Nitrates and Nitrites are basically unmeasurable (the Tetra Nitrate kit is some how never really 0)

But the proof is in the pudding they say: My corals have never looked better, and my fish are all happily swimming around.

I do see a little diatoms coming but nothing to worry about.

 

[RobB'z Reef]

@brandon429 so I'm cycling type A and B (roughly 50/50 mix) in storage containers until my tank gets here, about 30 days from now, good timing no? I know not to add anything because what I want is already there. The rock flew from Florida to Wisconsin so there is a reasonable chance there was some higher order die off, though perhaps small as the rock didn't stink. Assuming I transport excess ammonia via water changes while it's doing it's cycle how often should I change water and how much as a percentage of total volume? What would that schedule look like for the next 30+days?

 

[brandon429]

Hey neat cycling puzzle for sure it will work this way: the nonlive A rocks will pick up bacteria from the group B rocks within ~20 days no feed no boosters needed. just sitting there wet, all transfers are in motion. Group B rocks have fifty years of organics in crevices... (funny guesstimate) feed is certainly already in place.

Can’t fail, since the group B remained wet and doesn’t smell it will simply work. True rot rock smells bad bad bad and no smell means it’s simply not dying still, save for a few unlucky worms at the start possibly. 30 days in is just perfect, move the rocks to a new tank and begin. If that was my setup I’d probably change the holding vat water at least once just to keep it fresh and clean, nothing can starve or die in the wait time if temps and salinity is kept reasonable, nice clean water sitting a month will make this cycle blend turn out fine.

a comparative case study: group B reef linked by one pvc pipe to a whole reef of dry sand, not wet, and dry group A rock. **no extra feed added they just were linked** Second tank passed a cycling test on its own, at 30 days in.

Connecting Established Reef To New Tank

EDIT: In conclusion, if using the method I did - connecting an established reef to a new system with dry rock (clean), I recommend the following: 1. Dose your new tank prior to connecting to your old tank with NO3 and PO4 enough to raise to your established tank levels. 2. Take your skimmer...

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[RobB'z Reef]

Hey neat cycling puzzle for sure it will work this way: the nonlive A rocks will pick up bacteria from the group B rocks within ~20 days no feed no boosters needed. just sitting there wet, all transfers are in motion. Group A rocks have fifty years of organics in crevices... (funny guesstimate) feed is certainly already in place.

Can’t fail, since the group B remained wet and doesn’t smell it will simply work. True rot rock smells bad bad bad and no smell means it’s simply not dying still, save for a few unlucky worms at the start possibly. 30 days in is just perfect, move the rocks to a new tank and begin. If that was my setup I’d probably change the holding vat water at least once just to keep it fresh and clean, nothing can starve or die in the wait time if temps and salinity is kept reasonable, nice clean water sitting a month will make this cycle blend turn out fine.

a comparative case study: group B reef linked by one pvc pipe to a whole reef of dry sand, not wet, and dry group A rock. **no extra feed added they just were linked** Second tank passed a cycling test on its own, at 30 days in.

Connecting Established Reef To New Tank

EDIT: In conclusion, if using the method I did - connecting an established reef to a new system with dry rock (clean), I recommend the following: 1. Dose your new tank prior to connecting to your old tank with NO3 and PO4 enough to raise to your established tank levels. 2. Take your skimmer...

www.reef2reef.com

I appreciate your input, thanks for the response! The holding tanks have power heads, heater etc... Salinity @35 ppt temps 77-78 degrees. I'll do a 50% change in a few days, that should remove a bunch of stuff that might have just dislodged in the placement process, maybe one more a few days after that just for peace of mind. I'll monitor and wait thereafter... Great thread btw.

 

[RobB'z Reef]

Hey neat cycling puzzle for sure it will work this way: the nonlive A rocks will pick up bacteria from the group B rocks within ~20 days no feed no boosters needed. just sitting there wet, all transfers are in motion. Group B rocks have fifty years of organics in crevices... (funny guesstimate) feed is certainly already in place.

Can’t fail, since the group B remained wet and doesn’t smell it will simply work. True rot rock smells bad bad bad and no smell means it’s simply not dying still, save for a few unlucky worms at the start possibly. 30 days in is just perfect, move the rocks to a new tank and begin. If that was my setup I’d probably change the holding vat water at least once just to keep it fresh and clean, nothing can starve or die in the wait time if temps and salinity is kept reasonable, nice clean water sitting a month will make this cycle blend turn out fine.

a comparative case study: group B reef linked by one pvc pipe to a whole reef of dry sand, not wet, and dry group A rock. **no extra feed added they just were linked** Second tank passed a cycling test on its own, at 30 days in.

Connecting Established Reef To New Tank

EDIT: In conclusion, if using the method I did - connecting an established reef to a new system with dry rock (clean), I recommend the following: 1. Dose your new tank prior to connecting to your old tank with NO3 and PO4 enough to raise to your established tank levels. 2. Take your skimmer...

www.reef2reef.com

Did my first water change today on both bins (75%). Water was yellowed, so probably a good thing, no smell of death at all, maybe a little off but just smelled like the ocean for the most part. Forgive me but it's been a while so I'm relearning normals here.

 

[The_hobbyist]

I started my cycle with dry rock, Microbacter Quikcycl, and Microbacter Start XLM. It has been 30 days, and I am still showing Ammonia .25 and Nitrite .5 on API test kit. I have had cloudy water (bacteria bloom?) for about two weeks now. No livestock in the tank. What should be my next step, water change?

 

[aquaterra]

I started my cycle with dry rock, Microbacter Quikcycl, and Microbacter Start XLM. It has been 30 days, and I am still showing Ammonia .25 and Nitrite .5 on API test kit. I have had cloudy water (bacteria bloom?) for about two weeks now. No livestock in the tank. What should be my next step, water change?

I’m no expert but I would do a water change. You could be “ammonia locked” and the bacteria die adding more ammonia back in before they can fixate it out of the cycle

 

[brandon429]

I believe a work thread exists for all cycle questions

thank you for posting aquaterra and the hobbyist.

this thread covers it, you are cycled and can begin for these reasons hobbyist:

How to unstick any seemingly stuck cycle

non digital ammonia test kit readings (api, Red Sea, nyos, seachem badges) make you think you aren’t cycled when indeed you are if you owned a $200 expensive seneye meter, you’d never be doubting your cycle status. since .01% of the reefing population owns these, we need a way to help the...

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agreed. We would change out the cycling water for new, and begin.

 

[The_hobbyist]

Thank you for the help, I will do a large water change.