The Mindstream is DEAD!! I'm getting mine soon!

[Paul Sands]

I do not have a MM. I have spoken with SAI about the units performance for all parameters. The performance is quite good even compared to the lab grade certified devices/testing I am familiar with using.

I don’t need to test it myself to understand the performance. Do you dyno your new cars in lab conditions after purchase? Or do you trust that it makes as much power as the manufacturer says? What about your cellphone? Do you benchmark every piece of hardware and system capability to make sure they aren’t lying about the specifications?

How would I even be able to verify performance, it is better than anything else I can afford to compare it with. I will be sure to do some rudimentary testing with seawater at gas saturation to get an idea. When reporting results in peer reviewed articles, we just state manufacturers specifications, we can’t be expected to ground truth every bit of every measurement for every experiment.

All this talk about pricing and market strategy is interesting. Companies make choices and then customers make choices. Hope everyone can see how fortunate we are to have such great gains in cost effective testing and monitoring options for our home aquaria. If the products don’t align with ones goals, that’s fine. Impossible to make everyone happy anyhow.

All the negativity is a bit overzealous. Bringing a new device with novel technology for the application to market is quite hard. There are unknown hurdles that must get crossed cost effectively. The armchair quarterbacks are surely not speaking from experience in these matters.

Assuming it works, or that it ever gets produced, which we can’t verify either for the mindstream.

I’m well versed in bringing hardware to market. That’s how I know that “preselling” hardware and charging upfront is a great way for companies to borrow cash.

 

[road_runner]

Assuming it works, or that it ever gets produced, which we can’t verify either for the mindstream.

I’m well versed in bringing hardware to market. That’s how I know that “preselling” hardware and charging upfront is a great way for companies to borrow cash.

So paul with all due respect I will go ahead and assume you were not involved in bringing:
Tesla where they charge thousands a year or 2 in .advance to pre order

Pretty much every car when you want to get the new model or add customization and have to pay huge downpayment and wait for the release

iPhones and iPads where they accept pre orders (payment) the day they announce

Every single Amazon device where they accept pre orders paymenta at least 3 months in advance

Irobot products who accept pre orders 2 months before shipping

All the GoFundMe and crowd funding sites that people give money before product is even developed(many good products came out of these sites)

Oculus where they charged payment before they even had the product developed

Playstation where they charge in advance to book early release

Furniture stores like ethan allen or boconcept making you Pay full advance and wait 3 months for your furniture to arrive.

Every single cool gadget I know off for the last 5 years had a pre order and most commonly a payment was associated to hold your order in place


But thank you for your valued point of view in how consumer market is

 

[Paul Sands]

Not that this matters as it doesn’t sway my interest in the product, Services and subscriptions aren’t the same. Services are subject to amount fluctuations monthly. Subscriptions typically aren’t.

I pay for HBO now SUBSCRIPTION monthly. It’s the same price every month. Ditto with Netflix, Hulu and Apple Music. Also, my internet is the same price every month for like the last 3 years and it is paid monthly.

You guys are twisting yourself in knots trying to provide excuses for a poorly run business. It’s kind of silly.

 

[Paul Sands]

So paul with all due respect I will go ahead and assume you were not involved in bringing:
Tesla where they charge thousands a year or 2 in .advance to pre order

Pretty much every car when you want to get the new model or add customization and have to pay huge downpayment and wait for the release

iPhones and iPads where they accept pre orders (payment) the day they announce

Every single Amazon device where they accept pre orders paymenta at least 3 months in advance

Irobot products who accept pre orders 2 months before shipping

All the GoFundMe and crowd funding sites that people give money before product is even developed(many good products came out of these sites)

Oculus where they charged payment before they even had the product developed

Playstation where they charge in advance to book early release

Furnture stores lile ethan allen or boconcept making you Pay full advance and wait 3 months for your furnture to arrive.

Every single cool gadget I know off for the last 5 years had a pre order and most commonly a payment was associated to hold your order in place


But thank you for your valued point of view in how consumer market is

Boy, you really must have a tone of time on your hands to waste...

Tesla Model 3 required a $1,000 deposit on a $35,000 car. They didn’t require that you pay the entire amount. Do you see the difference?

I’m not even going to bother to read the rest of them.

 

[MnFish1]

I pay for HBO now SUBSCRIPTION monthly. It’s the same price every month. Ditto with Netflix, Hulu and Apple Music. Also, my internet is the same price every month for like the last 3 years and it is paid monthly.

You guys are twisting yourself in knots trying to provide excuses for a poorly run business. It’s kind of silly.

With all due respect - what is the axe you are grinding. As usual - you make an example of something you do. Other people list 10 or 20 things that they do - you just brush it all off and say 'you guys are wrong'. I personally don't care about your couch, your internet, your Apple Music or anything else. All I care about is you making the assumption that 'this product may never come to market' because they are taking up-front orders.

There is no logic there... Only people who really want one will do that. Many people won't do that. Tell you what since you like examples so much - let me know of another aquarium product - that was advertised on a website, started taking pre-orders, was accused of being 'vaporware' for MONTHS and MONTHS - with all kinds of conspiracy theories. Was that Mindstream?? No that was the Trident.

Before you remind me (lol) that Mindstream does not have the product breadth that Neptune does, I'm well aware. So - in that event name another product that has come as far as this one - to the point of 'taking orders' - who have left many hundreds of aquarists holding the bag (i.e. a fraud). Name one. BTW - its only because you are the one who likes to use single examples to prove your point.

BTW - I think I'm going to order the product today or tomorrow - my credit card assures me that 'I'm protected' if I dont get the item.

 

[MnFish1]

OH - @Paul Sands - OF COURSE taking pre-orders is a way to help fund production LOL - who would have thought it wasnt? And if not for production - then for marketing, etc. Who cares. Thats the way it's done. Its not 'bad'. Don't you ever watch Shark tank lol - all the people that say 'they have tons of orders but no way to produce them' - and the sharks usually write a blank check to produce purchase orders?

 

[road_runner]

Boy, you really must have a tone of time on your hands to waste...

Tesla Model 3 required a $1,000 deposit on a $35,000 car. They didn’t require that you pay the entire amount. Do you see the difference?

I’m not even going to bother to read the rest of them.

Yes please for the love of god do not

Also, do not sell yourself short paul. Talking to you is not a waste of time
My respect paul, we can agree to disagree.

I think all this talk almost made my mind. Am gonna buy one once its out.

 

[road_runner]

OH - @Paul Sands - OF COURSE taking pre-orders is a way to help fund production LOL - who would have thought it wasnt? And if not for production - then for marketing, etc. Who cares. Thats the way it's done. Its not 'bad'. Don't you ever watch Shark tank lol - all the people that say 'they have tons of orders but no way to produce them' - and the sharks usually write a blank check to produce purchase orders?

Why do not you wait a bit. We both take one..
I just want to see it in customers hand so gear some customer feedback first.
That would be my advice

 

[MnFish1]

Why do not you wait a bit. We both take one..
I just want to see it in customers hand so gear some customer feedback first.
That would be my advice

First of all I just called brs and thoughi was on the waiting list for the trident since the list was made I haven’t gotten One and second there is a return period and third my credit card backs up faulty merchandise or fraud

 

[Paul Sands]

OH - @Paul Sands - OF COURSE taking pre-orders is a way to help fund production LOL - who would have thought it wasnt? And if not for production - then for marketing, etc. Who cares. Thats the way it's done. Its not 'bad'. Don't you ever watch Shark tank lol - all the people that say 'they have tons of orders but no way to produce them' - and the sharks usually write a blank check to produce purchase orders?

Do you understand the difference between investors INVESTING in a product/company and a company SELLING a product to a customer that they can’t currently produce or deliver? One is fraud.

 

[MnFish1]

Do you understand the difference between investors INVESTING in a product/company and a company SELLING a product to a customer that they can’t currently produce or deliver? One is fraud.

Agree - it MIGHT BE fraud if they don't deliver it. Its like me saying - be careful Paul - your house may spontaneously explode tonight while you're sleeping - its highly unlikely (Impossibly unlikely) - but of course anything is possible. Its the same as suggesting (at this point - as you are) that this is a fraud. Its patently ridiculous - though - not impossible... (Thats how I think about it).

It is not fraud to take a 100% deposit on a product. And since we're talking 'legal like talk' - you stating that a company is 'fraudulent' or engaging in 'fraudulent' business practices as you did in the post above - yes - businesses can sue for defamation. So good luck on that one. Now - if they dont deliver the product - thats another story - I guess we'll know in 6-8 weeks - what I dont understand is why you're so worried about it now.

 

[Paul Sands]

Agree - it MIGHT BE fraud if they don't deliver it. Its like me saying - be careful Paul - your house may spontaneously explode tonight while you're sleeping - its highly unlikely (Impossibly unlikely) - but of course anything is possible. Its the same as suggesting (at this point - as you are) that this is a fraud. Its patently ridiculous - though - not impossible... (Thats how I think about it).

It is not fraud to take a 100% deposit on a product. And since we're talking 'legal like talk' - you stating that a company is 'fraudulent' or engaging in 'fraudulent' business practices as you did in the post above - yes - businesses can sue for defamation. So good luck on that one. Now - if they dont deliver the product - thats another story - I guess we'll know in 6-8 weeks - what I dont understand is why you're so worried about it now.

I don’t understand why you are so invested in defending a company that never delivered the product that they promised to public investors 6 years ago, won’t show videos of the current product working, and won’t let beta testers (if there are any) share their experiences with the public before they ask people to drop $1,000 to invest in a product that might come in a few months.

I didn’t say that this company was engaging in fraud. You made that leap yourself. I wonder why?

 

[MnFish1]

I don’t understand why you are so invested in defending a company that never delivered the product that they promised to public investors 6 years ago, won’t show videos of the current product working, and won’t let beta testers (if there are any) share their experiences with the public before they ask people to drop $1,000 to invest in a product that might come in a few months.

I didn’t say that this company was engaging in fraud. You made that leap yourself. I wonder why?

You said: Do you understand the difference between investors INVESTING in a product/company and a company SELLING a product to a customer that they can’t currently produce or deliver? One is fraud.

Since we're talking about this company - and talking about this issue (i.e. the ability of the company to deliver, whether they will be around in 6 months (your words) - the logical deduction is that 'the 'fraud you're talking about concerns this company'. (I.e. SELLING (your caps) a product to a customer that they cant currently produce or deliver'.

I am not defending any company - in fact I just posted a bit ago about some of the potential negatives. To use your 'lingo', though, why are you spending so much time tearing down a company/technology. Its all just supposition - but 'I wonder why?'

 

[Silver14SS]

 

[MnFish1]

No matter atter whom your referring it’s another way of saying an insult. If you don’t want to be in the discussion you’re not forced to be here right?

 

[Paul Sands]

No matter atter whom your referring it’s another way of saying an insult. If you don’t want to be in the discussion you’re not forced to be here right?

It’s not an insult. It’s pointing out something that is blatantly obvious to everyone else.

 

[Silver14SS]

No matter atter whom your referring it’s another way of saying an insult. If you don’t want to be in the discussion you’re not forced to be here right?

You're not forced to reply to everything, right? The last few pages is a peeing match with no helpful information. I'm out, have fun, and try using the multi quote.

 

[MnFish1]

It’s not an insult. It’s pointing out something that is blatantly obvious to everyone else.

I know paul I was trying to spare your feelings lol. Please stop repeating things that have nothing to do with the thread/op I’m now the second person who has nicely said that noone is forcing you to be here repeating that the company might be a fraud.

 

[Paul Sands]

I know paul I was trying to spare your feelings lol. Please stop repeating things that have nothing to do with the thread/op I’m now the second person who has nicely said that noone is forcing you to be here repeating that the company might be a fraud.

See post #397. LOL.

 

[MnFish1]

See post #397. LOL.

LOL