The MindStream Pricing and Subscription Model

MnFish1

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My testing regimen: API for alk (once a week or so), Hanna for phosphate (once every two weeks), Red Sea for magnesium/calcium (once a month). I can’t imagine that I spend more than $10/month on testing. I have no idea why anyone would need to test their tank 96 times a day (or whatever this does) for anything. Just because it can (and I get it really doesn’t cost more using this technology), doesn’t mean you should or need to.

Also, FWIW, I hope anyone that buys one of these is also double checking with a regular test kit for at least a few months, so it’s really $40/month plus whatever you spend for the back-up testing.
I do it less often than you do - That said - I think my tank could do better if I tested more often. I like the simplicity of this device as compared to some of the others - I won't jump out to buy one until I see more information. I just hate testing. But - IMHO - this compares very favorably to the Trident.
 

Snookin

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They probably don't care because they probably are not reading any of this based on their prior lack of response over the last years.
Ok. I’m definitely not an early adopter but this is a bad take. They have to care since they started the thread. They raised a lot of money and have what seems to be a good product. I think they lack some business acumen above just funding and the leadership needs to reevaluate their introductory strategy but they care. Hopefully.... Or they are doomed. R2R is probably the most popular forum for the reefing aquarium industry so if they don’t listen to these people they are screwed for longterm sustainability.
 

Snookin

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I’m not too sure about buying new tech from a company that starts a discussion thread pitching a product but then can’t seem to be bothered to answer any of very valid questions posed..
It’s definitely a bad look. We just don’t know if it is because they don’t care or they just don’t have the answers. I’m leaning towards the fact they just don’t have the answers.
 

smartwater101

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I’m leaning towards the fact they just don’t have the answers
Have they ever explained what happens if you don't renew? I'd assume access to old data is still available? Surely you're not locked out...
 
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MnFish1

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I’m not too sure about buying new tech from a company that starts a discussion thread pitching a product but then can’t seem to be bothered to answer any of very valid questions posed..
I just re-read the thread - the only question thats been asked (that wasn't answered in the OP) is the one below. LOL. Most of the comments have been much like the negative comments on the Neptune threads - the negative people were negative - the positive people were positive - and Neptune decided to just not answer. So - I dont think you're correct. I've also looked at the posts on other Mindstream forums - and its all the same. Complaining about the kickstarter, etc etc etc - Its old news - who cares?

Have you done any analysis on whether the device leach anything to the water?my understanding is that the disk have material that interact with the water chemistry so the light detector read a color and generate value...well more or less:)
Secondly - the people even hinting that this similar to 'Theranos' - firstly - this company does not state that they can test an 'unlimited' number of things. They are already functioning in beta testers hands. I'm here to hear positives and negatives - but negatives with absolutely no evidence (the company will likely/may not be around in 6 months, etc etc) seem a bit off....
 

MnFish1

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I have they ever explained what happens if you don't renew? I'd assume access to old data is still available? Surely you're not locked out...
Curious - does anyone know - how much data does Neptune save? Is it 7 days? (i.e. you're locked out of your data - right?). (Ps - I know - its 7 days - at least on my Fusion)
 

Gokulnath Kanagaraj

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It’s definitely a bad look. We just don’t know if it is because they don’t care or they just don’t have the answers. I’m leaning towards the fact they just don’t have the answers.
I asked them a straight forward question regarding subscription, which this thread is about. And I saw them online viewing this thread. I am sure they had the answer to my question. But instead of them, a community member answered my question. I have zero confidence on the customer care.
 

MnFish1

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I asked them a straight forward question regarding subscription, which this thread is about. And I saw them online viewing this thread. I am sure they had the answer to my question. But instead of them, a community member answered my question. I have zero confidence on the customer care.
I know - thats why I said in my post - that the only unanswered question (THAT WASN'T ALREADY ANSWERED IN THE OP). Your question was answered in the OP:

We selected a subscription pricing model because customer surveys indicated the vast majority of you prefer the convenience and security of an automated monthly disc shipment over the hassles and worries of needing to purchase required consumables. Our beta testers have confirmed this. We offer customers a choice of a monthly plan for $39.95/mo. or a discounted annual plan for $34.95/mo. billed annually. These prices include free shipping on a pre-calibrated sensor disc for all 10 parameters automatically shipped to your doorstep. This disc is very easily replaced in less than 10 seconds. The sensor disc must be replaced every 30 days in order to guarantee optimal performance of the sensors – regardless of the measurement frequency.
 

Opus

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I’m not too sure about buying new tech from a company that starts a discussion thread pitching a product but then can’t seem to be bothered to answer any of very valid questions posed..
That is just it. They seem to pop up over the years to make announcements but never answer any questions. Maybe they just never had the answer or they didn't think the questioner would like the answer.
 

Murica

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I do it less often than you do - That said - I think my tank could do better if I tested more often. I like the simplicity of this device as compared to some of the others - I won't jump out to buy one until I see more information. I just hate testing. But - IMHO - this compares very favorably to the Trident.
Trident has its benefits for being integrated with apex and dosing, but considering this tests ten parameters instead of three I think gives it an edge. The only thing probably preventing me from buying it and going another route is the initial and monthly cost. I get that this unit will be comparable /cheaper in the long run, but since reef keeping is so overly priced as it is, I don't know if I can justify $1350 for the first year.
 

MnFish1

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Trident has its benefits for being integrated with apex and dosing, but considering this tests ten parameters instead of three I think gives it an edge. The only thing probably preventing me from buying it and going another route is the initial and monthly cost. I get that this unit will be comparable /cheaper in the long run, but since reef keeping is so overly priced as it is, I don't know if I can justify $1350 for the first year.
IN all honesty - of the 10 parameters it tests..... pH, Mg, Ca, Alk, Temp, Salinity ok great - its good to get those measured. Then - Ammonia... (not sure I really 'need this'), CO2 (not sure I need this), O2 (not sure I need this), K+ (not sure I need this - but perhaps).

To me the benefit if it were more accurate than the Apex. Who hasn't read the posts saying 'I dont use my salinity probe anymore because it is so inaccurate, or 'who needs ORP'', etc. So - to me if it works for the first 6 parameters - that would be great. Its too bad it doesnt have a Phosphate test. :)
 

Murica

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IN all honesty - of the 10 parameters it tests..... pH, Mg, Ca, Alk, Temp, Salinity ok great - its good to get those measured. Then - Ammonia... (not sure I really 'need this'), CO2 (not sure I need this), O2 (not sure I need this), K+ (not sure I need this - but perhaps).

To me the benefit if it were more accurate than the Apex. Who hasn't read the posts saying 'I dont use my salinity probe anymore because it is so inaccurate, or 'who needs ORP'', etc. So - to me if it works for the first 6 parameters - that would be great. Its too bad it doesnt have a Phosphate test. :)
Then you get the reef bot... But you'll have to constantly refill reagents so how automated is it? Too bad apex is so unpredictable otherwise the trident would be a no brainer with the apex probes ha (except salinity probe)
 

MnFish1

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Then you get the reef bot... But you'll have to constantly refill reagents so how automated is it? Too bad apex is so unpredictable otherwise the trident would be a no brainer with the apex probes ha (except salinity probe)
Right - I also like the no reagent idea...
 

shaywood

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I certainly want to see this concept succeed, but look at the company profile. It reads like a large corporation - CIO, CFO, CEO, VP of Research, Man. Mgr, CSM, Board of Directions, etc. Guess that adds up to $1k, and a monthly fee. I look forward to the early adopters and hope for economies of scale -AKA, lower pricing.
 

GoVols

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Conor_K

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So I am extremely interested in the product. Real time salinity, plus the big 3, elimintaion for my need of a ph sensor, and hopefully accuracy for all 10 params I can trust is very enticing to me.

But in 76 posts we have had no response from the manufacturer.

We have had no intel from beta testers.
The op is a canned statement I have already read elsewhere.


This all makes me very nervous.

I have no love for apex, but the trident lauch came with extensive youtube vids, Terrence (pour soul) on here in real time doing his best, and beta testers galore with comments....

If mindstream stands behind this thing, lets see them take a stand. I don’t need a fancy vid of a half baked manufacturing video with a yellow lens.

Give us the real guts of this thing or send one to BRS to test, so they can....[emoji2957][emoji2957][emoji2957]
 

smartwater101

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This all makes me very nervous.

I have no love for apex, but the trident lauch came with extensive youtube vids, Terrence (pour soul) on here in real time doing his best, and beta testers galore with comments....

If mindstream stands behind this thing, lets see them take a stand. I don’t need a fancy vid of a half baked manufacturing video with a yellow lens.

Give us the real guts of this thing or send one to BRS to test, so they can....
Neptune spent the first few days, after launch, being defensive and condescending to people here on R2R. They didnt even start helping people until four days later when people started calling them out on it. (To be fair I'm sure they're good people, and a launch is an incredibly exciting/stressful time.) But I do sometimes wonder about the Neptune reps and their lack of professionalism. (Id also like to point out they still haven't disclosed the cost of routine maintenance to their customers. They simply gave a range and avoid the question now. At least Mindstream is straightforward about costs)

I suspect Mindstream will remain professional. And hopefully they'll answer some of the questions popping up. They do that, and people (like me) who have issues with their pricing structure may understand the nuances a bit more.

And yes. PLEASE send a couple to BRS. They didn't start testing the Alkatronic until last month! Competition is great for the consumer but not exactly great when supply is limited to only a few outlets.


Side question: don't most NDAs expire once the product is released? I've only seen a post from one user. Seems strange.
 

Ohashimz

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Neptune spent the first few days, after launch, being defensive and condescending to people here on R2R. They didnt even start helping people until four days later when people started calling them out on it. (To be fair I'm sure they're good people, and a launch is an incredibly exciting/stressful time.) But I do sometimes wonder about the Neptune reps and their lack of professionalism. (Id also like to point out they still haven't disclosed the cost of routine maintenance to their customers. They simply gave a range and avoid the question now. At least Mindstream is straightforward about costs)

I suspect Mindstream will remain professional. And hopefully they'll answer some of the questions popping up. They do that, and people (like me) who have issues with their pricing structure may understand the nuances a bit more.

And yes. PLEASE send a couple to BRS. They didn't start testing the Alkatronic until last month! Competition is great for the consumer but not exactly great when supply is limited to only a few outlets.


Side question: don't most NDAs expire once the product is released? I've only seen a post from one user. Seems strange.
100% agree....Mr.marketing vp was lashing out left and right at people...each company has its culture.
I am not happy with MM responsiveness to this thread though..maybe they are responding on a diffrent platform, I would not expect this thread is the only way to reach them, but I am not sure yet..
 
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