The MindStream Pricing and Subscription Model

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What’s the accuracy for different parameters? Sorry if I missed this on the website.
Hi EmdeReef,

The MindStream Monitor provides impeccable analytical merit for ten water parameters in saltwater aquariums with one compact sub $1,000 device. The MindStream calcium and potassium are precise to less than 5 ppm and magnesium less than 15 ppm. Combined with a precision on the carbonate alkalinity measure of less than 0.1 dKH, the MindStream Monitor provides outstanding chemical insight into key water parameters for reef keepers. The pH sensor is bench marked against a state-of-the-art oceanographic optical pH instrument and has a precision of less than 0.05%. Furthermore, the salinity and temperature sensors are calibrated against lab-grade sensors. The MindStream Monitor utilizes noble-metal electrodes to measure salinity which results in a highly stable (precision of 0.0002 specific-gravity units) and reliable measure. The dissolved gas sensors (carbon dioxide, oxygen and ammonia) are calibrated in a controlled clean-room environment.
While we understand that precision and trending is most important to you, it might also be helpful to know the MindStream Monitor parameters have an accuracy ranging ± 2-5% in an average saltwater tank (Ca: 400 ppm, Mg: 1300 ppm, K: 400 ppm, temperature: 78ºC, carbonate alkalinity: 9 dKH, salinity: 35 ppt, pH: 8.0).

Does that help answer your question?

Regards,
Alex
 
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@MindStream I really appreciate the in innovative product that helps reefers monitor their tank parameters real-time. Kudos ! Just a quick question, is it $995 payment one-time and then replacement sensors are available only through subscription option which costs $35 per month ?
Hi Gokulnath, Yes - the cost of the Monitor is a one-time $995.00 payment. We selected a subscription pricing model because customer surveys indicated the vast majority of you prefer the convenience and security of an automated monthly disc shipment over the hassles and worries of needing to purchase required consumables. Our beta testers have confirmed this. We offer customers a choice of a monthly plan for $39.95/mo. or a discounted annual plan for $34.95/mo. billed annually. These prices include free shipping on a pre-calibrated sensor disc for all 10 parameters automatically shipped to your doorstep. This disc is very easily replaced in less than 10 seconds. The sensor disc must be replaced every 30 days in order to guarantee optimal performance of the sensors – regardless of the measurement frequency.

Does that help answer your question?
Thanks,
Alex
 
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@MindStream.
I am intersted in placing an order as the more I think about the device and my monthly spending habits the more I see the value.
I have a question:
Have you done any analysis on whether the device leach anything to the water?my understanding is that the disk have material that interact with the water chemistry so the light detector read a color and generate value...well more or less:)
Any testing on these strips inside the disk? Any leaching or any long term issues?
Hi Ohashimz,

Thank you for your question. We've performed numerous saltwater tests with our sensor discs over many different time-scales (with the longest tests ranging for multiple months to a year) and have not observed leaching. The sensors that we utilize have been adapted form the biomedical field and are manufactured with a high level of precision and uniformity.

Does that help answer your question?
Regards,
Alex
 
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I think having a subscription model is fine, IF the inital price wasn't so high. 420-480$ a year... to use a piece of equipment you own? Its very strange to have both a high inital cost and high yearly cost. Also, what happens if you dont renew? Are you locked out of the data/app?

That said, if this thing ends up being as accurate and precise (long term) as claimed. I may change my tune real quick...
Hi smartwater101,

Thank you for your question. Once you begin collecting data with the MindStream Monitor, you will have continuous access to those data even if you have cancelled your subscription. If you move your MindStream Monitor to a different tank and setup a second tank profile, you will also maintain access to the data collected on the first tank.

Regards,
Alex
 
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The slogan of Silicon Valley: fake it till you make it.

Can’t think of anyone in their right mind that would plunk down $450 upfront for a year supply of disks from a company likely to go under in less than 6 months. So, the monthly charge is $40/month, not $35 as advertised.
Hi Paul Sands,

We selected a subscription pricing model because customer surveys indicated the vast majority of you prefer the convenience and security of an automated monthly disc shipment over the hassles and worries of needing to purchase required consumables. Our beta testers have confirmed this. We offer customers a choice of a monthly plan for $39.95/mo. or a discounted annual plan for $34.95/mo. billed annually. These prices include free shipping on a pre-calibrated sensor disc for all 10 parameters automatically shipped to your doorstep. This disc is very easily replaced in less than 10 seconds. The sensor disc must be replaced every 30 days in order to guarantee optimal performance of the sensors – regardless of the measurement frequency.

Regards,
Alex
 
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Have they ever explained what happens if you don't renew? I'd assume access to old data is still available? Surely you're not locked out...
Hi smartwater101,

Once you set up a MindStream Monitor and it begins collecting data, you will have access to those collected data even if you have stopped your subscription. The same applies if you set up a new tank and move your monitor and would like to access your data for the old tank.

Regards,
Alex
 
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100% agree....Mr.marketing vp was lashing out left and right at people...each company has its culture.
I am not happy with MM responsiveness to this thread though..maybe they are responding on a diffrent platform, I would not expect this thread is the only way to reach them, but I am not sure yet..
Hi Ohashimz,

We appreciate your patience! We're trying to keep up with all of our customer channels. We intend on being much more responsive on R2R. You can also reach us at our support inbox: [email protected], on Facebook, or by calling us: 802 399 2494.

Regards,
Alex
 
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I asked them a straight forward question regarding subscription, which this thread is about. And I saw them online viewing this thread. I am sure they had the answer to my question. But instead of them, a community member answered my question. I have zero confidence on the customer care.
Hi Gokulnath Kanagaraj,

I apologize that we weren't able to respond to you in a timely manner. We're learning how to keep up with our numerous social media threads (forums, instagram, facebook, email, phone, etc); however, will be on R2R more actively. Please don't hesitate to reach out with further questions.

Regards,
Alex
 
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Actually quite a few questions have been asked that have not been answered by the company. Just because you and some others want to speculate on an answer, doesn’t mean the question was answered.

The question regarding the details on accuracy of the testing parameters, the question regarding if there will be any options to buy disc outside of the subscription, the question on what exactly is included in the subscription vs. what will work w/o it (ie. if I don’t do the subscription does the device do anything or is it just a paperweight), the question on how it’s handled if I stop/suspend the subscription (ie. is my data maintained until I restart, do I get to keep it, is it purged from their system).. and that was just the valid questions from the 1st page..

I think the tech sounds cool and all, and I do tend to ‘early adopt’ stuff but if they want to build/maintain a good reputation with the community, being involved in a discussion THEY started seems like an obvious first step.
Hi ReefyB,

Thank you for your questions.

Regarding accuracy:

The MindStream Monitor provides impeccable analytical merit for ten water parameters in saltwater aquariums with one compact sub $1,000 device. The MindStream calcium and potassium are precise to less than 5 ppm and magnesium less than 15 ppm. Combined with a precision on the carbonate alkalinity measure of less than 0.1 dKH, the MindStream Monitor provides outstanding chemical insight into key water parameters for reef keepers. The pH sensor is bench marked against a state-of-the-art oceanographic optical pH instrument and has a precision of less than 0.05%. Furthermore, the salinity and temperature sensors are calibrated against lab-grade sensors. The MindStream Monitor utilizes noble-metal electrodes to measure salinity which results in a highly stable (precision of 0.0002 specific-gravity units) and reliable measure. The dissolved gas sensors (carbon dioxide, oxygen and ammonia) are calibrated in a controlled clean-room environment.

While we understand that precision and trending is most important to you, it might also be helpful to know the MindStream Monitor parameters have an accuracy ranging ± 2-5% in an average saltwater tank (Ca: 400 ppm, Mg: 1300 ppm, K: 400 ppm, temperature: 78ºC, carbonate alkalinity: 9 dKH, salinity: 35 ppt, pH: 8.0).

Regarding the subscription:

The disc is included with the monthly subscription and needs to be replaced monthly regardless of testing frequency. If you decide to cancel your subscription, you will maintain access to your data. The same is true if you decide to move your monitor to a separate tank; the data of the previous will be accessible in your dashboard.

Don't hesitate to reach out with further questions.
 

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Hi Paul Sands,

We selected a subscription pricing model because customer surveys indicated the vast majority of you prefer the convenience and security of an automated monthly disc shipment over the hassles and worries of needing to purchase required consumables. Our beta testers have confirmed this. We offer customers a choice of a monthly plan for $39.95/mo. or a discounted annual plan for $34.95/mo. billed annually. These prices include free shipping on a pre-calibrated sensor disc for all 10 parameters automatically shipped to your doorstep. This disc is very easily replaced in less than 10 seconds. The sensor disc must be replaced every 30 days in order to guarantee optimal performance of the sensors – regardless of the measurement frequency.

Regards,
Alex
Would love to hear from your beta testers. Why are you keeping them from posting about their experiences with this product?
 

Paul Sands

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The MindStream Monitor provides impeccable analytical merit for ten water parameters..,

[T]he MindStream Monitor parameters have an accuracy ranging ± 2-5% in an average saltwater tank (Ca: 400 ppm, Mg: 1300 ppm, K: 400 ppm, temperature: 78ºC, carbonate alkalinity: 9 dKH, salinity: 35 ppt, pH: 8.0).
So, if the mindstream tells me my salinity is 35, it could be anywhere between 33.25 and 36.75? That’s atrociously poor accuracy for a product that requires a monthly disc subscription supposedly because it’s calibrated for accuracy. That accuracy is also far worse than that Hanna salinity checker which has an accuracy rating of +/- 1ppt
 

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So, if the mindstream tells me my salinity is 35, it could be anywhere between 33.25 and 36.75? That’s atrociously poor accuracy for a product that requires a monthly disc subscription supposedly because it’s calibrated for accuracy. That accuracy is also far worse than that Hanna salinity checker which has an accuracy rating of +/- 1ppt
If your calculations are right then it is poor accuracy.

I keep my Salinity at .35 or slightly above, so that my cal stays in balance to my alk with my calcium reactor.

My Vee Gee is rated at +/- 1%
 
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GoVols

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For a grand upfront and a monthly disk fee, the hardware should have a lifetime warranty.

It has a tiny built in motor. That's a failure point for sure.

After the first year, what's is the cost going to be, to send if back and replace the built in motor?
 

lexinverts

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So, if the mindstream tells me my salinity is 35, it could be anywhere between 33.25 and 36.75? That’s atrociously poor accuracy for a product that requires a monthly disc subscription supposedly because it’s calibrated for accuracy. That accuracy is also far worse than that Hanna salinity checker which has an accuracy rating of +/- 1ppt
The salinity monitoring uses electrodes, so I suspect that it has higher accuracy than the parameters using fluorescent technology. The reason I think so is that the precision for the salinity probe is very high (+/-.0002). So, if accuracy error for salinity was at the low end (+/- 2%) that would be a range of 34.3 - 35.7 ppt, and similar to Hanna. We'll have to have Mindstream weigh in here, though.
 

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We'll have to have Mindstream weigh in here, though.
Agree with the above, but 2%-5% in salinity seems like a very large tolerance factor on my end.

The electrodes might be dead on, but the disk qc may have a bigger tolerance factor than the electrodes.
 

lexinverts

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Agree with the above, but 2%-5% in salinity seems like a very large tolerance factor on my end.

The electrodes might be dead on, but the disk qc may have a bigger tolerance factor than the electrodes.
To clarify, I think that different parameters could have different accuracy error rates. They provided one error rate range above for all of them lumped together of 2-5%. I would be surprised if parameters that are measured in different ways (electrode versus fluorescence) have an identical accuracy error. It seems likely that the electrode-based salinity measurement would have an error of 2% (similar to the similar technology in the Hanna probe) rather than 5%, which could be for alk, ca+, mg, etc.... I'm just speculating here, so Mindstream should weigh in.
 

MnFish1

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Agree with the above, but 2%-5% in salinity seems like a very large tolerance factor on my end.

The electrodes might be dead on, but the disk qc may have a bigger tolerance factor than the electrodes.
I think you missed the point that other person was trying to make - @MindStream didnt say each parameter had a range from 2-5% they said the 'parameters' had a range of 2-5% (which COULD mean that salinity is 2%, CO2 is 5%, etc.

For example the low range Hanna phosphate checker has a range of +- 4%. The accuracy of the Hanna Calcium checker is +- 6%. The accuracy of the Hanna Alkalinity monitor is +- 5%. The hanna salinity monitor has an accuracy of 2.5-5% (depending on the salinity being checked)... (these are all taken from their website - under each product - under 'accuracy')

So the MIndstream is better than at least the hanna checkers out there. Im not sure what problem you have?

EDIT - just saw @lexinverts clarified his post as well.
 
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So, if the mindstream tells me my salinity is 35, it could be anywhere between 33.25 and 36.75? That’s atrociously poor accuracy for a product that requires a monthly disc subscription supposedly because it’s calibrated for accuracy. That accuracy is also far worse than that Hanna salinity checker which has an accuracy rating of +/- 1ppt
Hi Paul Sands,

I'd be happy to clarify that with our electrode-based salinity reading is benchmarked against NIST certified conductivity probes and has an accuracy of at least +/- 0.75 ppt. The MindStream Monitor utilizes noble-metal electrodes to measure salinity which results in a highly stable (precision of 0.0002 specific-gravity units) and reliable measure.

Regards,
Alex
 

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