Official Sand Rinse and Tank Transfer thread

Be102

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Nov 29, 2016
Messages
1,884
Reaction score
1,059
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
With the sand, I usually end up taking it out because I have other stuff to do in the tank. You certainly don’t have to. I just like to get it out of the way.

Sometimes I rinse it, but usually just flushing it in the remaining water in the tank does the same thing. I would assume that not rinsing it in FW does preserve some of the fauna/bacteria in the sand. That said, whatever is removed from the sand bed exists in many other areas of the system, so it will all come back soon enough.

When I put stuff in depends on the job. Right now, I have a 110 gal reef that I took apart to buff the viewing panel and then add dark blue acrylic panels to cover the black the tank was built with. Because of the fact this tank is in an office and being the holidays, the whole system will end up being down for a week.

Sometimes when I do the ‘rip’ just for the sake of freshening the tank up, it’s a 2-4 hour process (depending on the size of the tank). Take it out, flush it, put it back together. Doesn’t matter.

Corals are tough. As long as you aren’t banging them on stuff, they don’t mind being moved around a little.

In ecology, this is a variation of the ‘intermediate disturbance hypothesis’

Sorry. So you take the stuff out of the tank. All of it. Then have just sand in the bottom with random shells. From there you scoop it all up and rinse it with saltwater or tap water? Does tempature of the rinsing matter? Do you care about anything beneficial in the sand such as little inhabitants? I understand there’s others else where but like say nessrrius snails or whatnot. Do they die off? Then you re-add that same sand re add rocks and then go backwards from there. How long can rock be outside of the tank in regards for me aquascaping and whatnot. Do you then re-add the original water you had in the buckets with the livestock?

Sorry I am new to all this. I have yet to siphon off my tank’s sand bed still to this day. I don’t struggle with algae much at all but I’d like to improve the health overalll especially whilst during a fallow period. Just kind of hesitant to rinse the sand... although that’s what this whole thread is about!
 

Gregg @ ADP

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Sep 20, 2018
Messages
1,208
Reaction score
2,995
Location
Chicago
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Sorry. So you take the stuff out of the tank. All of it. Then have just sand in the bottom with random shells. From there you scoop it all up and rinse it with saltwater or tap water? Does tempature of the rinsing matter? Do you care about anything beneficial in the sand such as little inhabitants? I understand there’s others else where but like say nessrrius snails or whatnot. Do they die off? Then you re-add that same sand re add rocks and then go backwards from there. How long can rock be outside of the tank in regards for me aquascaping and whatnot. Do you then re-add the original water you had in the buckets with the livestock?

Sorry I am new to all this. I have yet to siphon off my tank’s sand bed still to this day. I don’t struggle with algae much at all but I’d like to improve the health overalll especially whilst during a fallow period. Just kind of hesitant to rinse the sand... although that’s what this whole thread is about!
Anything alive that’s big enough and obvious enough to catch gets removed. I use the little bit of water left in the tank to rinse the sand. As I push it into a pile in a corner, most of the detritus is left in the water. If there is still a lot left in the sand after that (there usually isn’t), then I’ll rinse it with fresh water.

If you lose any bacteria, it will all be replaced 100% within a couple days.
 

Be102

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Nov 29, 2016
Messages
1,884
Reaction score
1,059
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Anything alive that’s big enough and obvious enough to catch gets removed. I use the little bit of water left in the tank to rinse the sand. As I push it into a pile in a corner, most of the detritus is left in the water. If there is still a lot left in the sand after that (there usually isn’t), then I’ll rinse it with fresh water.

If you lose any bacteria, it will all be replaced 100% within a couple days.
Would this be a bad time to also add new sand to the tank as well? Would there be any recommendations if I just buy regular dry sand or live sand as well and just rinse it before adding it to the tank then add the rocks then add the stuff back in?
 

Gregg @ ADP

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Sep 20, 2018
Messages
1,208
Reaction score
2,995
Location
Chicago
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Would this be a bad time to also add new sand to the tank as well? Would there be any recommendations if I just buy regular dry sand or live sand as well and just rinse it before adding it to the tank then add the rocks then add the stuff back in?
Sure. Change whatever you feel like changing. Add new sand, add no sand, add marbles...doesn’t matter. You can put everything right back in, you can wait a day, you can wait 7 days. Doesn’t matter. Obviously, the sooner you get it back together, the easier it is on your animals and system. But don’t look at it like it’s a ticking time bomb.

Your tank at this point is cycling and established. While an event like is being prescribed seems like a major shock, from a bio and chem perspective, it’s just a blip on the radar.

The benefits, IMO (and I understand that not all will agree), far outweigh any temporary disturbance from the cleanse. Once in and established, the bio side is strong and will bounce back immediately. Life gets easier on the chem side, so that’s usually an instant improvement.

Again, I understand that other people would advise against stuff like this. For me, I don’t think twice about it. I’ve done it hundreds of times, on numerous systems, with a whole bunch of lives that I didn’t pay for on the line.

If it didn’t work, at this point I certainly would not be doing it.
 

Be102

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Nov 29, 2016
Messages
1,884
Reaction score
1,059
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Sure. Change whatever you feel like changing.

Your tank at this point is cycling and established. While an event like is being prescribed seems like a major shock, from a bio and chem perspective, it’s just a blip on the radar.

The benefits, IMO (and I understand that not all will agree), far outweigh any temporary disturbance from the cleanse. Once in and established, the bio side is strong and will bounce back immediately. Life gets easier on the chem side, so that’s usually an instant improvement.

Again, I understand that other people would advise against stuff like this. For me, I don’t think twice about it. I’ve done it hundreds of times, on numerous systems, with a whole bunch of lives that I didn’t pay for on the line.

If it didn’t work, at this point I certainly would not be doing it.
Essentially you are saying I have enough life in my tank in the rock work and whatnot to sustain a disturbance such as this. That overall as long as I rinse the sand clean it won’t cause too much problems other than maybe an upset coral for a day. Awesome. I’ve never thought I would do this however it seems like it might be the best time to do it. Do you do any work with the sump at this point as well? Or just leave it as is. My sump has detritus build up and I never seem to siphon or clean anything out.

Should I maybe just do as you suggested and leave my sump just untouched and the increase biodiversity will make its way into the tank again or should I clean it all out at once?
 

Gregg @ ADP

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Sep 20, 2018
Messages
1,208
Reaction score
2,995
Location
Chicago
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Essentially you are saying I have enough life in my tank in the rock work and whatnot to sustain a disturbance such as this. That overall as long as I rinse the sand clean it won’t cause too much problems other than maybe an upset coral for a day. Awesome. I’ve never thought I would do this however it seems like it might be the best time to do it. Do you do any work with the sump at this point as well? Or just leave it as is. My sump has detritus build up and I never seem to siphon or clean anything out.

Should I maybe just do as you suggested and leave my sump just untouched and the increase biodiversity will make its way into the tank again or should I clean it all out at once?
I edited and added some additional info in the post you quoted.

Cleaning out a sump can be done at any time. I doubt it would be an issue to do it at the same time, but if this is your first trip to the wild side, maybe just do one thing at a time.

Even if you don’t take all the sand out and rinse it, it’s a big move into plus-territory. It’s all math: if you remove 85% of decaying organic matter, the remaining 15% (although now exhumed) won’t be an issue. There is still that 15%, but 15% < 100%, especially long-term. By taking almost all of the water out before you take rock and sand out, you are now free to release the not so good stuff built up in the bed to be dug out and more or less removed: e.g. normally, H2S gets released into the water once you start getting to the deeper untouched areas of the bed in the back and under rocks. No biggie...you took most of your water out, so it just gets released into the water you’re removing or into the air. If there’s a some left in the sand after you do everything, it will be in an incosequential concentration.

(now...if the H2S is really, really bad, I would definitely rinse the sand)

Practically all the bad crap (organic matter and chem compounds) comes out when you pull out that last 10-15% of the water. That’s why I leave that amount in the tank...to kind of act as a sponge.

Whatever is left will be consumed by bacteria, removed by filtration, and converted via reaction. Life will be back to normal very quickly.
 

Be102

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Nov 29, 2016
Messages
1,884
Reaction score
1,059
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
I edited and added some additional info in the post you quoted.

Cleaning out a sump can be done at any time. I doubt it would be an issue to do it at the same time, but if this is your first trip to the wild side, maybe just do one thing at a time.

Even if you don’t take all the sand out and rinse it, it’s a big move into plus-territory. It’s all math: if you remove 85% of decaying organic matter, the remaining 15% (although now exhumed) won’t be an issue. There is still that 15%, but 15% < 100%, especially long-term. By taking almost all of the water out before you take rock and sand out, you are now free to release the not so good stuff built up in the bed to be dug out and more or less removed: e.g. normally, H2S gets released into the water once you start getting to the deeper untouched areas of the bed in the back and under rocks. No biggie...you took most of your water out, so it just gets released into the water you’re removing or into the air. If there’s a some left in the sand after you do everything, it will be in an incosequential concentration.

(now...if the H2S is really, really bad, I would definitely rinse the sand)

Practically all the bad crap (organic matter and chem compounds) comes out when you pull out that last 10-15% of the water. That’s why I leave that amount in the tank...to kind of act as a sponge.

Whatever is left will be consumed by bacteria, removed by filtration, and converted via reaction. Life will be back to normal very quickly.

I was reading over the thread and people suggested a putty knife to allow easy scooping and sectioning in the sand. I was wondering if you had any specific tools you had on hand during these processes? Sounds silly but like I said before I’ve never even siphoned my sand bed. I assume airline tubing should suffice maybe a tad larger?

How full do you fill the buckets with the sand? How much sand is each bucket you are cleaning? I guess I’m just a little confused that the sand stays in the tank or maybe thats just because I’ve never done it yet.
It’s great that you put it the way you did. That essentially I will be flushing the water clean that it will be nearly everything coming out of the tank. With no inhabitants and what I should be able to be alright regardless of the perimeters. As my good water and whatnot will outweigh the bad.


Now I’m coming to ask a silly question but why do people not do this more often? The sand you see in the ocean that is stagnant seems very u healthy rather than the constant flipping and tumbling sand.. at least from my experience whilst diving
 

Gregg @ ADP

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Sep 20, 2018
Messages
1,208
Reaction score
2,995
Location
Chicago
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
I was reading over the thread and people suggested a putty knife to allow easy scooping and sectioning in the sand. I was wondering if you had any specific tools you had on hand during these processes? Sounds silly but like I said before I’ve never even siphoned my sand bed. I assume airline tubing should suffice maybe a tad larger?

How full do you fill the buckets with the sand? How much sand is each bucket you are cleaning? I guess I’m just a little confused that the sand stays in the tank or maybe thats just because I’ve never done it yet.
For me, unless the sand bed is in really bad shape, I usually just stir it and push it over and pile it up in a corner.

If it’s bad, I’ll take it out and rinse it. If it’s really bad, I’ll pitch it and put new sand in. Sometimes, especially on really large tanks, I just get new sand just for the hell of it.

If I want to preserve the sand I have, part of stirring it up involves scooping it up in a coarse net to sift the larger chunks, shells, rock pieces etc out, leaving the finer and medium grains. This also helps to separate detritus/organics and facilitate in the release of gases we don’t want.

If you take the sand out to rinse it further, how you take it out is up to you.


It’s great that you put it the way you did. That essentially I will be flushing the water clean that it will be nearly everything coming out of the tank. With no inhabitants and what I should be able to be alright regardless of the perimeters. As my good water and whatnot will outweigh the bad.
For sure. You’re taking out a little good, but a whole lot of not good.

Brandon points out the phenomenon of eutrophication, which is an important factor in a closed system. Anything we can do to hedge against eutrophication, IMO, is beneficial in keeping the tank balanced long-term.

Now, there are some hardcore chemists on this board who are more dialed into that end of reef-keeping, and some of them are capable of achieving as close to equilibrium as we can reasonably achieve. I’m just not that organized...although I’m always impressed.

I take the larger ecological view of reef keeping. And these are not my tanks, so even if I wanted to micromanage the chem, I wouldn’t be able to do so very well. So, again, I take the eco approach and consider that flushing-type phenomena do occur in nature. A little differently, perhaps...but the natural system is built to handle those interventions.


Now I’m coming to ask a silly question but why do people not do this more often? The sand you see in the ocean that is stagnant seems very u healthy rather than the constant flipping and tumbling sand.. at least from my experience whilst diving
Most reef keepers, rightfully so, are extra careful with their tanks.

However, I think that the more experience one has with multiple systems and multiple conditions, the more one realizes the boundaries are much further out than we think.

I used to collaborate with a couple of the reef guys at Shedd Aquarium in Chicago. We talked about this stuff a bit. The consensus between us was that if the typical reef keeper saw how we did things, they would crap their pants, have a heart attack, or both.

Corals and reef systems are much tougher than we give them credit for being. You’re talking about arguably the oldest type of ecosystem on Earth. When it comes to getting through rough stretches, to borrow a colloquialism from my father-in-law, it ain’t their first goat ropin’.
 

Be102

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Nov 29, 2016
Messages
1,884
Reaction score
1,059
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
For me, unless the sand bed is in really bad shape, I usually just stir it and push it over and pile it up in a corner.

If it’s bad, I’ll take it out and rinse it. If it’s really bad, I’ll pitch it and put new sand in. Sometimes, especially on really large tanks, I just get new sand just for the hell of it.

If I want to preserve the sand I have, part of stirring it up involves scooping it up in a coarse net to sift the larger chunks, shells, rock pieces etc out, leaving the finer and medium grains. This also helps to separate detritus/organics and facilitate in the release of gases we don’t want.

If you take the sand out to rinse it further, how you take it out is up to you.



For sure. You’re taking out a little good, but a whole lot of not good.

Brandon points out the phenomenon of eutrophication, which is an important factor in a closed system. Anything we can do to hedge against eutrophication, IMO, is beneficial in keeping the tank balanced long-term.

Now, there are some hardcore chemists on this board who are more dialed into that end of reef-keeping, and some of them are capable of achieving as close to equilibrium as we can reasonably achieve. I’m just not that organized...although I’m always impressed.

I take the larger ecological view of reef keeping. And these are not my tanks, so even if I wanted to micromanage the chem, I wouldn’t be able to do so very well. So, again, I take the eco approach and consider that flushing-type phenomena do occur in nature. A little differently, perhaps...but the natural system is built to handle those interventions.



Most reef keepers, rightfully so, are extra careful with their tanks.

However, I think that the more experience one has with multiple systems and multiple conditions, the more one realizes the boundaries are much further out than we think.

I used to collaborate with a couple of the reef guys at Shedd Aquarium in Chicago. We talked about this stuff a bit. The consensus between us was that if the typical reef keeper saw how we did things, they would crap their pants, have a heart attack, or both.

Corals and reef systems are much tougher than we give them credit for being. You’re talking about arguably the oldest type of ecosystem on Earth. When it comes to getting through rough stretches, to borrow a colloquialism from my father-in-law, it ain’t their first goat ropin’.


Sorry for so many ametaur questions Greg. But just one last one for right now. When you save the old salt water is that for the sole purpose of preventing any sort of shock to the livestock with the switch? Like say your new salt water was 1.026 rather than 1.022 the tank was? I don’t think there’s much detritus that would stay suspended in the water column correct?

One silly question... what’s the method to take snails out?? Everytime I find a snail anywhere they are gripped onto whatever they are on for dear life and I wouldn’t want to hurt them at all.
First reef tank... still getting used to all the different life in the tank.
 

AdamD76

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Nov 21, 2015
Messages
484
Reaction score
601
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
90% of the sand taken out. Fresh water dip and rinse on most of rocks. I still need to brush the back and sides with a soft bristle bottle brush.
9b7d8c8bfb38359449ccf130a0d3b2ec.jpg
e81c80140712ac6851342e7227aa0b07.jpg
460bd987303c9a51a0f489b46d6d553a.jpg
 
OP
OP
brandon429

brandon429

why did you put a reef in that
View Badges
Joined
Dec 9, 2014
Messages
29,727
Reaction score
23,721
Location
tejas
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Team


We want this non sandbed tank linked to our sand thread for sure

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/define-insanity.539235/

Look at how detritus works in the bare bottom system, one of that rock diversity. That's not someone's powder white Marco base rock circa 2017 looking that purple, it's live rock. It has animal diversity, and they make waste.

Look how he doesn't let the scape misbehave.

Idea: he should never take a set of rocks that active, that diverse, that expressive and place them above a cloudy sandbed where all that daily work would seemingly stop...as it sinks onto lower layers of the bed (just like filter floss eventually fills, and doesn't mineralize anything it just fills to capacity)

That's a bell curve reefing method, given it could be years on the upside, but the downside is unrecoverable without tank surgery so why go there. It's like an all big Mac diet lol



His entire basis for posting revolves around detritus management, and how to get it out. He is running an infinite lifespan reefing method, because it is detritus non storage. His system will never require bacterial dosers, garden soil, man boosting of any kind, it will never have a cyano invasion, it's just going to reef for generations if willed to do so, the biology will self regulate forever given the inflow and outflow the tank receives.


This aquarist is applying as daily maintenance the very action we've done for seventeen pages here, those were just all at once catchups. He's been blast cleaning, pore-opening, daily in increments so his tank will never require a catch up rip clean. I wanted to feature the inverse of the common reef tank approach, and apply nineteen predictions about how that tank will perform over time. Spectacularly is the prediction. If it ever has cyano, we'll know Vader won out on him during the radio tower beacon battle and convinced him somehow to become less active and accept+ harbor an invasion. He's surely not doing that now.

This aquarist deserves preventative maintenance award 2019.



Brandon
 
Last edited:
OP
OP
brandon429

brandon429

why did you put a reef in that
View Badges
Joined
Dec 9, 2014
Messages
29,727
Reaction score
23,721
Location
tejas
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
AdamD76
That is amazing I can't believe I missed update notification for that post

That too is really nice aged quality live rock~ you demonstrated a to-the-bone cleaning, pore-opening detail surgery + skip cycle reassembly, and, you were targeted enough with the invader that all the age and character imparting pigments and colors are still on your rocks, it looks never invaded. Well done, truly valuable flow chart for this thread

The back wall looks like a real reef scuba divers would see, it’s the periphyton that Santa Monica writes so much about in algae turf scrubber posts, keep that part, it’s controlled feed pump zone and quite rare I’m possibly jealous

That is what every live rock looks like underwater in the caymans, it’s not a bunch of shiny purple coralline, we’re wanting a very customized look for our display areas but the real reef looks like your back wall.
 
Last edited:

Slarti

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Nov 16, 2016
Messages
299
Reaction score
357
Location
Brisbane Australia
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Slow and steady update of sorts...

A fairly long time ago I started cleaning (siphoning) my sand a little square at a time with every water change. This was after posting on here and Brandon suggesting the approach. Only a 30g tank and as such the slow approach. Now anyone remembering my original post will remember that I have been struggling with algae almost from day one, not helped by a move of the tank after about 1 year and then a fairly long power outage just as it got better.

Anyway, as I was cleaning the tank yesterday it dawned on me that I may have finally won the battle with the algae. I say battle as I know this is a never ending war but my tank is as free of the stuff as it has ever been, still some localised algae but overall it is all but clean. So why posting here? Well I have tried plenty to get rid of algae and about 6 months ago stopped everything and just did the sand cleaning. Over time the tank improved and although I have increased the number of fish in the last two months, with additional feeding and also started feeding my few corals as well, the tank improved. So the conclusion I reached yesterday is the only reason for the improvement can be the cleaner sand. Very happy and will obviously continue with this.

Unfortunately only got some poor photos from before but will see if I can get some after shots and post it here.

On a side note, the sand I have is very fine and over time I have siphoned up a fair bit of it and it is getting thin in parts. Next step will be to add some newly rinsed sand but not in a hurry to do that just yet!
 

Frogger

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Feb 19, 2018
Messages
252
Reaction score
371
Location
Burnaby British Columbia
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Frogger
If you'll consider blast cleaning your sandbed vs treating the cyano via water actions, our sand rinse thread shows us beating cyano 100% on all pages
Rather then continue the conversation in the Beeping Green hair algae post I am bringing it here.

Sorry Brandon, I hadn't realized you had replied to what I said. I follow this post on controlling algae and it is all useful information. I have removed all but a small amount of my sand bed months ago (left a small section for wrasse). I have strong water movement, constantly blast the rocks with a turkey baster and have low nutrients ( I actually add NO3 and Phosphates to my tank to keep a readable amount). The two weeks of H2O2 did not really have any effect on the cyano (Twillard Method). Even rocks that I pull out of the tank and treat with H2O2 has no real effect the cyano is usually back within a couple days on the piece of rock. I have resorted to manually removing the cyano with a turkey baster every couple days. This seems to have had some effect. One thing is I used a food grade H2O2 versus the normal grade that has stabilizers. I wonder if the stabilizers in non food grade H2O2 play a role to help kill off the Cyano.

My tank is doing well and I can live with the cyano it is not killing anything.
 
OP
OP
brandon429

brandon429

why did you put a reef in that
View Badges
Joined
Dec 9, 2014
Messages
29,727
Reaction score
23,721
Location
tejas
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
No in my opinion that grading wont affect outcome, all my peroxide work ranging back years online will show I don't use it for cyano. That doesn't mean i haven't seen it kill cyano targets, it has. But it's not my go to method for that invader at all, I get better cure sustains directly managing it like you say, not by dosing something to the water.

Peroxide isn't playing any role here in cyano cures, what we do here is make the tank into cloudless zones... We predict any clouding, castings, detritus that can be shaken from the rocks mid water or disturbed out of what sand is left is the cause and locus/insulating complex for cyano. We think that removing detritus in deep cleaning drives this reef adapted organism back into balance.

It was neat you mentioned a controlled coverage area, manageable, that really isn't all that impactful but would be handy to clear if possible.

This lines up truly with how cyano expresses in nature because it belongs on the reef-- for it to be there does not indicate something bad about your water quality, we're affecting abnormal conditions in fact to control it.

The ocean/a real reef has detritus and cyano is food for conchs, snails, fish etc it's ironic that it belongs on a reef and doesn't mean something is off balance when it takes over... It means we have to hand graze until balances are restored in other ways.

If you get a chance later on pick up one little rock that's pretty free of invader, accessible, and shake it about mid tank level and see if it casts off much waste clouding. though you're in the process of cleaning out your sand bed I would be curious to know how much detritus is in the rocks to see why the cyano likes to to attach there
 

Frogger

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Feb 19, 2018
Messages
252
Reaction score
371
Location
Burnaby British Columbia
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
One of the things I have noted in my tank is that the cyano prefers to grow first on the parts of coral skeleton that have died in the past year or so. There is absolutely no detritus on these exposed skeletons. It also loves to grow on plastic things in the tank. On the back overflow box (plexy) on the wavemakers. I take the wavemakers out of the tank a couple times a month to clean them but it still grows there. There is no detritus on the pumps. The cyano also likes to grow on hair algae. I have a some hair algae as well, nothing unmanageable. It started growing after my yellow tang died and disappeared. I accidentally let my tanks gets too warm in the summer, Faulty heater combined with relying on glass thermometers to monitor temperature. 86 degrees and up for several months. I think he died from lack of O2 at night because of the high temp. I also lost some acros because of the temp. It appears that the yellow tang loved to eat the hair algae.

Flow has no affect on where the cyano grows. Exposed rocks that are in direct current still grow cyano. My tank has high flow.

I never had a cyano problem until I dosed Vibrant and within a week or two of starting the cyano started growing. This was about 7 months ago. I no longer dose Vibrant.

I am still trying to get my head around this bacteria. There is not always a rhyme or reason. Most peoples first response is lower your nutrients or increase water movement and that is just not always the answer.

I have changed the color of my lighting to more blue without lowering par to see how that affects the growth.
 
OP
OP
brandon429

brandon429

why did you put a reef in that
View Badges
Joined
Dec 9, 2014
Messages
29,727
Reaction score
23,721
Location
tejas
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Really helpful details, very keen and I can tell you've been researching yep. * Not all strains follow our commands as easy :) and there's one participant in this thread with the same challenge, and it's bcarl77

He had a very noncompliant, tank surfaces selecting type, went to bare bottom, blued lights, manually removed with discipline, still came back just like you describe.

He and I work through chat for about three months trying different ideas and made some Headway but I think I lost track chatting with him when he bought UV and I don't know how that fared. If I'm not mistaken he was already using UV even before the challenge :) this was a truly non-compliant strain he had-- worst I had seen that I recall. Rare
 
OP
OP
brandon429

brandon429

why did you put a reef in that
View Badges
Joined
Dec 9, 2014
Messages
29,727
Reaction score
23,721
Location
tejas
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
https://www.reef2reef.com/members/bcarl77.83531/

I never forget the tough challenges. Though we have a very strong track record affecting manual control, it's not one hundred percent. Hopefully this thread is helpful even as a touch point between different challenge tanks it helps to at least have people to chat with who been doing this for a few months with a very similar invader. At least consider trying to seek out some of his posts and we can see how that tank wound up

My thinking is now heading into biologics for these physically resistant strains: not chemi clean, but microbial clean up crew kits, algen sells special packs, pod packs by the thousands. Considering the habits from this thread we always pre remove the target and then focus on the preventives, but for your grow back prevention it's really worth a brainstorm to consider today's biological options for living microbial clean up crew members

There have also been new bottle bacteria preferences such as dr. Tims waste away and even a brightwell brand of cyano treatment which are living competing organisms, not erythromycin meds, and these hold promise for large tanks/inaccessible systems and or tough strains.

I'm envisioning a multi-tiered approach where perhaps we took hours to manually clean the tank again to full visual compliance, then dose these as a trial run, during a three day blackout possibly
 
Last edited:

Nano sapiens

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Apr 25, 2010
Messages
2,493
Reaction score
3,681
Location
East Bay, CA
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
IME, the typical cyano mats (black, maroon, green and various shades thereof) have been an issue when nutrients are too high. A good sized fish/organism that is not removed, too much detritus/uneaten food in the system for a long time (larger tanks, short time is all that's needed in nano tanks), minimal to no water changes without sufficient filtration to maintain water quality are good ways to get cyano mats to form.

It's very common for maroon/red cyano to grow when a coral is left to die in the tank, or at the boundary line where two corals are making war with each other and this indicates increased nutrients in the localized area. These localized events are relatively benign, as opposed to the mats plague which can smother and kill other tank organisms.

For the mats, I have found that consistent manual removal and careful feeding/and or reduction of livestock if the system is overburdened will cause them to subside every time. It may take some time, but it will happen. Manual removal of the small localized cyano mentioned above is a low priority for me and can be accomplished with a turkey baster and a fine mesh net to remove the displaced cyano.

Understanding the root of the problem is the key to successfully controlling it.
 
OP
OP
brandon429

brandon429

why did you put a reef in that
View Badges
Joined
Dec 9, 2014
Messages
29,727
Reaction score
23,721
Location
tejas
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Agreed fully. It matters me imagine this pro move combo: aggressive manual cleaning, zero aggregation allowance for one straight week all via siphon scrub hose-end removal+ gallons of water exchange. Mass reduction, higher redox quality water manually inflicted 7-10 days straight -above steady state- we aren't factoring that your current water is bad or great into the equation.

It's a homeostasis change above norms, sustained, because that's rare and attainable and opposite of how invaded tanks present typically.

Then, a double pond sterilizer rig created from two 55 w cheapo Amazon uv pond lights is plumbed into the tank for temporary war. Then its kept tucked away for 2024 in the garage since apparently these forms of assertive invasion exist...

Then true taped tank plastic black out three days. Give me an amphidinium infested nano reefer willing to try that paleeeeeeese

:)

All those moves aren't coral harming that's the joy of this optical illusion. All the busy frenetic cleaning seems insulting, then burning precious planktors (helping currently, how) seems offensive... all the water changes.


But this is a normal Tuesday for a reefbowl and they're doing fine, what's the hez

That uv combo is all of $275 to potentially change the course for your large inaccessible ten thousand dollar tank. It's an amalgamation of what I've seen work most consistently in tank restoration patterns online.

And then when it's all done, blue the lights, dose algen live pods, and tune that nitrate and phosphate to one's hearts content


In that order heh

In this thread, the work part comes first and the nutrient tuning comes last~
 

Rock solid aquascape: Does the weight of the rocks in your aquascape matter?

  • The weight of the rocks is a key factor.

    Votes: 12 8.6%
  • The weight of the rocks is one of many factors.

    Votes: 48 34.5%
  • The weight of the rocks is a minor factor.

    Votes: 45 32.4%
  • The weight of the rocks is not a factor.

    Votes: 32 23.0%
  • Other.

    Votes: 2 1.4%
Back
Top