Official Sand Rinse and Tank Transfer thread

[NeonRabbit221B]

I am fairly worried about moving my freshwater setup as it is fairly overstocked (reduces aggression as no one fish gets singled out). I did fail to think about the toxicity of nitrite on top of ammonia toxicity...

Here is my plan for the cichlid tank.
I have gradually reduced my pH from 8.2 to about 7.9 about the last month. I have a HOB rated at 400 GPH and an FX4 rated at 700 GPH and both are packed with media and foam aged at about 1 month. Glad I decided not to clean the filters a few days ago. Day of the move I will drain about 20G into buckets and place rock/driftwood into a bucket with rags and water. Fish will be separated to try and reduce aggression in aerated buckets. I will move the filters wet. The substrate is a mix of pebbles and sand so I will sift the pebbled out and toss them and use remaining tank water to rinse the sand. I will keep about 2L of the sand unrinsed to seed. Setup tank at new location with 80% new water and place sand and rock in tank with bottled bacteria setup with a doser pump for the next week. Drop in the female fish first and wait 1 hour before introducing the males. Test ammonia/nitrite every 12-24 hours for a week.

For my 40B I am replacing the sandbed and rock with sand based tiles and newly cycled rock. I will keep the fish in a 29G tote with the remaining old live rock and a seeded HOB filter until I can confirm the new setup is cycled and I didn't have any die off.

Just a lot to do task wise and maintain bacterial levels and water chemistry. The moving starts in 72 hours and I start my new job 5 days later. WISH ME LUCK I AM SO NERVOUS.

 

[NeonRabbit221B]

@brandon429 I realized I just pulled about about 40-50 lbs of sand from the reef I just broke down tonight. Is there any reason I cannot rinse it and use it for my cichlid tank? It would sand loads of time compared to rinsing the sandbed in the 75G tank the day of the move. Can I use a 10:1 bleach ratio to kill off the aiptasia/critters leftover in the sand?

 

[brandon429]

That gets a little tricky in freshwater bc we dont know if the filtration bacteria from the marine system can move instantly into freshwater or not and remain viable


the actual sand won’t hurt cichlids but we were concerned about strong surface area support and swapping out all the sand for marine bacteria may not be a good plan

my gut tells me it’s safer to keep the current sand or if you input marine sand have it freshwater cycled already

 

[brandon429]

@cyberNative how’s it looking now a full day later anemone still bright and happy ?

 

[nastronaut]

@cyberNative how’s it looking now a full day later anemone still bright and happy ?

Things are looking great generally!

The anemone has been a bit finicky with it's "schedule", but oddly - when I turn the lights off for the day it goes from semi bubbled to full on bigger than ever.

Hopefully tomorrow I can get lights ON pictures.

Side note: I'm nerding out about pipefish. Might incorporate a pair of dragonface if I can find a solid/healthy local source, ideally captive bred but unlikely given their availability. I'd be interested in trying to breed them though, eventually. In reading about them, my knowledge of microalgae, plankton, and frye is all starting to come together. In the meantime I'm going to focus on building my copepods back up (many survived the rinse), and see if I can't get more healthy forms of phytoplankton present in my water column for better coral and copepods health.

Tldr; anemone seems to be adjusting to new light/flow/etc but shows good feeding response and frequent water changes like normal still waiting for the perfect storm hah.

 

[NeonRabbit221B]

@brandon429

Just an update on how the sand rinsing went in the cichlid tank. Tore down the tank and placed rocks/driftwood and filters in a tote and stored wet. After moving the fish into buckets I used my homemade sifter to remove the heavier pebbles I had started with that was mixed into the sand. I did the rinsing/sifting in tank water I had leftover. After sifting and mixing up the sandbed I was left with this gross mess... and yes I vacuum my sandbed but with such a thick substrate It is challenging.

I drained the tank and refilled with about 5 gallons of dechlorinated tap. Mixed it around again and then used a dust pan to drain and place into buckets with some of the fresher tank water. I placed a cap of stability bacteria in each bucket. Setup the tank and refilled with about 80% freshwater. No ammonia (or very close) or nitrite from the immediate test. Added some additional bacteria and left for the store. I came back and found ammonia jumped to ~0.25 and 0 nitrite. Changed about 10 gallons of new water with a lower ph (figuring toxicity rises with ph) and added some prime to detoxify.

Not sure where I went wrong... Maybe I didn't rinse the sand enough as when I filled the tank it wasn't 100% clear. Its been a long night and not sure about next steps... Will head back in the early morning and recheck. The fish don't look stressed so that is good.

 

[nastronaut]

@brandon429

Just an update on how the sand rinsing went in the cichlid tank. Tore down the tank and placed rocks/driftwood and filters in a tote and stored wet. After moving the fish into buckets I used my homemade sifter to remove the heavier pebbles I had started with that was mixed into the sand. I did the rinsing/sifting in tank water I had leftover. After sifting and mixing up the sandbed I was left with this gross mess... and yes I vacuum my sandbed but with such a thick substrate It is challenging.

I drained the tank and refilled with about 5 gallons of dechlorinated tap. Mixed it around again and then used a dust pan to drain and place into buckets with some of the fresher tank water. I placed a cap of stability bacteria in each bucket. Setup the tank and refilled with about 80% freshwater. No ammonia (or very close) or nitrite from the immediate test. Added some additional bacteria and left for the store. I came back and found ammonia jumped to ~0.25 and 0 nitrite. Changed about 10 gallons of new water with a lower ph (figuring toxicity rises with ph) and added some prime to detoxify.

Not sure where I went wrong... Maybe I didn't rinse the sand enough as when I filled the tank it wasn't 100% clear. Its been a long night and not sure about next steps... Will head back in the early morning and recheck. The fish don't look stressed so that is good.

Looks pretty good. Ammonia could've been some more waste in the substrate. But since you added bacteria and did water changes you should be okay.

To prevent any mini cycle you may have needed to rinse a bit more.

 

[brandon429]

Agreed

Neon: you got our first freshwater move documented nice one! The remedial steps you took were intuitive and worked well, and when the sun comes up today u wont need any more action as the brief spike if any either destroys the whole tank like in reefing within a few hours as a recycle, or it is harmlessly handled by remaining bacteria (plus the insurance bac added) and self resolves pretty much over nite.

we have been against using bottle bac here in reef cleaning work because we are 100% sure the bacteria are never over removed and we know nitrite won’t matter in saltwater, but in freshwater it was a wise move as insurance because you needed to safely offset in-tank rinsing and it all worked well.


even if your testers show trace readings for ammonia and nitrite it won’t matter after the first day, it’s self resolved by then and the testers might show extended ghost readings like they’re known to do

if that freshwater tank is doing fine by sunup today it’s fine for a long while again and now with cleaner substrate able to accept this years waste and feed loading cyclically

really well done teamwork Neonrabbit and Cybernative

 

[nastronaut]

Random update my anemone is acting more normal now and is a hungry hippo.

I think the issue before was too much waste material was getting to it in the water column, so I'd stopped target feeding cause it was constantly excreting. But I don't think it was getting good nutritional value from what it was eating, so it wasn't opening fully during the day.

As soon as I started target feeding it thawed reef frenzy nano again, I've been doing daily, it's gobbling it up and finally corrected it's schedule, opening in the morning, and closing at night! It's color is looking better daily too.

 

[NeonRabbit221B]

Short update 20 days after my move
My Cichlid tank had by far the biggest positive change from the move. Nitrates dropped from a 40 to around a 5, phosphate levels were cut to negligible amounts and my water clarity has improve dramatically. Fish are spawning as if I was blasting Carless Whispers in my fish room. Also took some time to glue together a rock structure for more vertical coverage of the tank. I am never moving tanks without a substrate rinse again.

My nano tank looked stressed for about a day before bouncing back. No ammonia spike, nutrient levels right where I want them and very little coralline die off.

Appreciate all of the help!

 

[brandon429]

those are really sharp, truly sharp you did pro surgery and our first freshwater follow through thank you NeonR!

*you preserved the aged look for your reef, it literally looks eight years old as it sits. nice nuances there, leaving coralline I would too. its a reef beard.

 

[brandon429]

had a great time running a full rock swap + sandbed rinse + delicate anthias fish back in skip cycle

Worked with PSU4ME in chats and gained these fine pics for our flow thread!

able to skillfully take down a large tank, PSU4ME's work patterning really helps us to show options for larger tank moves, upgrades, downgrades and swaps all instantly, no wait.

There are some things meant to happen fast in reefing, rip cleaning is one of them.


from our interaction I got these notes down:

-had 140 gallons of water ready, not lacking on new ready water. Dedication in prep
- first step was rocks out first, held in their container alone and cleaned/swished clear of accumulations and rinsed in sw.
- sump kept its basic water and was reused in the system, harmless and saved work down low, focused on DT rock swaps.
since we were accessing the rocks why not blast the sand clean... and de-age the tank for future strong years> rinsed powerfully!
-the KP rock is from the ocean and PSU knew the bacteria were locked in place, easy skip cycle. The KP rocks were cured elsewhere for 50+ days to handle ammonia dieoff
-no new tank diatoms, and very sensitive fish all back in tow no wait


If this reef was being moved to MACNA, it would have indeed made the start date.

Thank you for exchanging works with me PSU4ME
B

rocks out first along with all animals, but held separately for cleaning, leaving water and sand here below

100% take down of a multi-thousand dollar large reef, parted out, all life separated in buckets to be away from detritus-laden material. We rip that portion clean

This below is rinsed sand, rinsed hours till it can now pass a drop test. RO at the end. Reach in to the bottom if you want, sway your arm across the entire bed from the bottom and cake flip it. No cloud. now that's a rinse.

Final assembly below, with the all-new rocks aged by KP and cured by PSU4ME

and then bam, the newold reef back to action:

The skip cycle worked due to the bacteria on live rocks, those live rocks didnt cure from a vat of swimming fish they were held as rocks in saltwater. Fallowing does not starve filter bacteria, where you fallow still catches floc and dander and waste, they feed

KP aquatics post-fallow rock instantly handles this fish load, and more if required, due to having so much extra surface area the above loading is a breeze figuratively speaking

what happened to the sandbed bacteria we did not care about, they don't matter. What mattered was cloudless instant blast-cleaning and snowglobe-clean sand grains, no waste moved over.

 

[brandon429]

While we don’t have 100% dinos fixes here, Alexreefer was one tank owner where rip clean didn’t cure, hows our ratio looking on year five? forty pages and one or two noncompliants, zero tradeoff invasions (people who spike nitrate and phosphate to battle dinos often now have enduring gha issues) and zero lost tanks.


one thing is for certain, this whole thread is pure 100% water changes, so does water changes or sandbed work *cause* dinos? Of course it doesn’t.


where water changes sure might cause dinos: changing water over a filthy bed, mixing up the funk, it settles back out and dinos are boosted. Nobody here has shown that effect in post pics. Our follow pics are happy reef except for frogger who’s invasion was from another planet, Alexreefer who finally beat his dinos by warring with them nonstop for twenty months using dosers and param adjustments, nice fight Alex nice resolve, and BCarl77 whose red cyano was like Froggers.


nobody knows how to universally beat a dinos invasion, we are all vying for the best ratios in work threads

even our staunchest critics must draw from these pages total proof that what we do is safe, there are no tank losses or stalled cycles or bad transfers.

chance of beating your dinos, about 75% in my opinion. chance of beating cyano/spirulina invasions, about 99% going off sheer before and after pics here. chance of successfully moving your reef to a new home, 100%.

and none of the prep actions between the different causes is different, its all the same set of moves. every job.

 

[brandon429]

Nano Build - Jar of Rocks

Newest addition is the torch(atleast i think its a torch) on the right. Wish the zoas would open more they still seem to open just halfway. Not sure the deal there. Have some algae blooms going ill do a rip clean this weekend clean that mess up. I am debating on looking for q jar with a...

www.reef2reef.com

pico reef, fixed in one pass. What he had looked like dinos on the rocks though not sure, ID doesn’t factor much here only the after shot pics


for forty pages it’s the same set of moves not different

eight pound pico reef or twenty thousand dollar sps reef 150 gallons, same exact steps.


whether we are moving homes, upgrading, downgrading, beating cyano, besting dinos where possible, same set of steps. Doing a rip clean just to freshen up, same steps.


thousands of tap water sandbed rinses. critics of the approach run high but so does the number of happy aquarists here.

this entire thread is the act of backflushing aquariums.


google a search regarding biofilter backflushing for zoo exhibits, pro aquariums that keep whales etc


the ORP in that tank above was unideal, acidic conditions selected for, coral not happy. That’s the eutrophic state, the before pics above, it’s what reefs do when farm runoff starts to land in the same spot, the environment changes from hermatypics/ reef-builders into scum mats and plants. We fix that by force here.

 

[brandon429]

Edit double post error

 

[brandon429]

Usually updates here are us captain morgan posing atop a defeated invasion and we do pirate stuff to celebrate. Not here

Build Thread - Bcarl's Waterbox 135.4 Custom Build

The tank is up and cycling now. I can post a more detailed update on everything in a bit.

www.reef2reef.com

that is a system from BCarl77 who about twenty pages back was willing to rip clean his 65 gallon system two or three times over and his cyano would not abate. No matter what, I couldn’t get the system uninvaded. We worked weeks in private message only for the system to armbar + triangle choke me until I cried lol

Above he lists several ways it’s now abated, rinsing is a small part of the overall balance now, and his tank is great!

BCarl Frogger and Alexreefer did not get fixed by rip cleaning, can’t win em all. I’m just happy to see a winning combo here, and our next super invasion can now read alternate means. Nice one C

 

[Reefahholic]

I can tell you from multiple tank transfers and new builds....throw away the sand. Keep a small cup to re-seed the new tank.

Trust me...it's funky...it smells horrible...your wife will hate you....and it's not fun to rinse.

I used to bleach mine until one day I bought a cheap generic bleach brand that actually had detergent in it. I rinsed it for hours, days, and it finally started to rinse clear. I rinsed it more. No bubbles or anything. Put it in the tank and it nuked my powder blue tang. Never again will I keep sand. Although I did rinse it before that several times and was successful. It's just a major event and a huge headache.

Work a little overtime and buy some new sand. You owe it to yourself!

 

[Reefahholic]

had a great time running a full rock swap + sandbed rinse + delicate anthias fish back in skip cycle

Worked with PSU4ME in chats and gained these fine pics for our flow thread!

able to skillfully take down a large tank, PSU4ME's work patterning really helps us to show options for larger tank moves, upgrades, downgrades and swaps all instantly, no wait.

There are some things meant to happen fast in reefing, rip cleaning is one of them.


from our interaction I got these notes down:

-had 140 gallons of water ready, not lacking on new ready water. Dedication in prep
- first step was rocks out first, held in their container alone and cleaned/swished clear of accumulations and rinsed in sw.
- sump kept its basic water and was reused in the system, harmless and saved work down low, focused on DT rock swaps.
since we were accessing the rocks why not blast the sand clean... and de-age the tank for future strong years> rinsed powerfully!
-the KP rock is from the ocean and PSU knew the bacteria were locked in place, easy skip cycle. The KP rocks were cured elsewhere for 50+ days to handle ammonia dieoff
-no new tank diatoms, and very sensitive fish all back in tow no wait


If this reef was being moved to MACNA, it would have indeed made the start date.

Thank you for exchanging works with me PSU4ME
B

rocks out first along with all animals, but held separately for cleaning, leaving water and sand here below

100% take down of a multi-thousand dollar large reef, parted out, all life separated in buckets to be away from detritus-laden material. We rip that portion clean

This below is rinsed sand, rinsed hours till it can now pass a drop test. RO at the end. Reach in to the bottom if you want, sway your arm across the entire bed from the bottom and cake flip it. No cloud. now that's a rinse.

Final assembly below, with the all-new rocks aged by KP and cured by PSU4ME

and then bam, the newold reef back to action:

The skip cycle worked due to the bacteria on live rocks, those live rocks didnt cure from a vat of swimming fish they were held as rocks in saltwater. Fallowing does not starve filter bacteria, where you fallow still catches floc and dander and waste, they feed

KP aquatics post-fallow rock instantly handles this fish load, and more if required, due to having so much extra surface area the above loading is a breeze figuratively speaking

what happened to the sandbed bacteria we did not care about, they don't matter. What mattered was cloudless instant blast-cleaning and snowglobe-clean sand grains, no waste moved over.

I know what you went through rinsing that sand. Hats off to you for doing it. I'm too old and lazy for that now. Not to mention, I don't wanna make that much RODI water and I definitely wouldn't rinse it with water hose tap like I did before.

The only way I would rinse sand today is if I had a 300 psi water hose that produced an unlimited amount of 0 TDS water and a large 200/G vat setup in my yard with a mag 18 pump to blow the sand around while I tilted the vat to let it drain as I continuously pumped/blasted RODI water into the vat. Other than that...no thanks!

Ohh yeah...and a hired hand to scoop it all up and place it in my reef for me. ;Happy

My favorite part of this entire thread:

This below is rinsed sand, rinsed hours till it can now pass a drop test. RO at the end. Reach in to the bottom if you want, sway your arm across the entire bed from the bottom and cake flip it. No cloud. now that's a rinse.

;Hilarious;Joyful;Happy

 

[Reefahholic]

I don't know if I believe you. I may need to come over and cake flip it to see if it's as good as you say it is. ;Hilarious;Jawdrop;Joyful

 

[InvaderJim]

Recently moved my nano tank successfully with no casualties thanks to this thread.

I just finished setting up my new 80g shallow tank with thoroughly rinsed Caribsea Special Grade reef sand and marco dry rock from brs. The tank has been running for a few days with no signs of ammonia. Do you think it's ok to start moving some live rock over to seed the dry? @brandon429