The opportunity cost of one Vortech MP60 - Greed in the aquarium hobby. Apex & Vortech & More

[Fish_Sticks]

Mp60 MSRP: 675$
A submersible, controllable, programmable water fan.

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1 1/5th Apex Controllers

10 Jabao wavemakers
10 submersible, controllable, programmable water fans, with a fat 90% markup thrown on top, at-least.

1-3 Round trip airline tickets anywhere in the US

2 1/2 NVIDIA GTX 1060s (High powered computer graphics cards. Technology)

7 Intex 12' circular above ground pools w/pump

30 things that cost 20$

67 things that cost 10$

140 thick cut sirloin steaks

300 gallons of gasoline

600 cans of beer

1000 lbs of rice, 10,000 servings.

168,750 gallons of drinkable water

People love hobbies, lets make money from those people.
- Apex + Vortech

There is no way, on earth, a wavemaker (water fan) should have this price tag. The price gouging in this hobby from american product suppliers is pretty bad. Many hobbyists turned to asian markets long ago for affordable and good quality equipment. The Apex is such a ripoff, we have resulted to building our own controllers with reef-pi. The reviews are pretty average, and the equipment is not invincible. If you own any of these products, you know they are good products. My beef is with the companies ripping us off. Their product reviews are full of price complaints.

Instead of charging a ridiculous markup, wouldn't you want your equipment in the hands of as many reef-keepers as possible to make the hobby more accessible, to improve the quality of life for more aquariums and prevent more tank failures?

That's what you would think; however, they've instead gone with the charge as much as possible from our customers like it's the 1960's business model. Its 2020, are you making products for the benefit and advancement of the hobby, or only alienating loads of reef keepers by trying to charge as much as humanly possible to increase profits? Can't you tone it down just a little bit?

Yes I care about my fish and corals, but Im not going to get taken for a ride and spend 4k on a tank so that I can have a semigloss finish on my wavemaker controller and get text alerts from a controller with basic 1990's technology and high-school level programming when I am on vacation. This stuff should be affordable.

Instead, I'll continue making snow angles in my pile of Jabeo wavemakers and return pumps while waiting patiently for an affordable aquarium controller from the asian markets - a market sector that companies like vortech and apex don't want to fill because they are too busy maxing out their profit margins.


Enough is enough.


Why was reef keeping originally started?
The goal of aquarium keeping is not to have a cool tank in your bedroom to impress your friends or brag about on the forums. We are propagating corals, fish, and potentially benefiting the oceans later on down the line. These American brands don't want to participate in that endeavor by reaching to mid grade aquarists. For affordable and quality aquarium equipment, we will have to look to the asian markets.




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[Geebs19]

Nothing is going to change unless people stop buying them, and that doesnt appear to be happening. I for one refuse to spend that amount of money.

 

[count krunk]

yeah never going to buy a gyre, MP, WAV, neptune cor, etc. just much too expensive to justify it when much cheaper products get the job done.

 

[MSB123]

I digress. I find that if a company is willing to stand by its product (like Neptune systems and echotech marine), I will be willing to pay for a good product.
My apex has saved me twice, over 8k in Livestock.
Just my 2 cents.

 

[CMatlosz]

I'm with you on the general sentiment that things on the hobby are disproportionately expensive but you have to consider economy of scale when making judgments. Having said that, it is hard to justify spending 4-5x more the cost of a Jabao for a product that accomplishes the same goal.

 

[CMO]

If they are truly a ripoff excess profit will drive other companies to enter the market and offer similar products at a lower price. I think a lot of people underestimate the true cost of bringing a quality product to market, and worst of all, having to deal with all the complainers in the aquarium industry...

 

[Fish_Sticks]

I digress. I find that if a company is willing to stand by its product (like Neptune systems and echotech marine), I will be willing to pay for a good product.
My apex has saved me twice, over 8k in Livestock.
Just my 2 cents.

I'm with you on the general sentiment that things on the hobby are disproportionately expensive but you have to consider economy of scale when making judgments. Having said that, it is hard to justify spending 4-5x more the cost of a Jabao for a product that accomplishes the same goal.

Instead, I'll continue making snow angles in my pile of Jabeo wavemakers and return pumps while waiting patiently for an affordable aquarium controller from the asian markets - a market sector that companies like vortech and apex don't want to fill because they are too busy screwing us over.

 

[MSB123]

I digress. I find that if a company is willing to stand by its product (like Neptune systems and echotech marine), I will be willing to pay for a good product.
My apex has saved me twice, over 8k in Livestock.
Just my 2 cents.

In the same line of thinking, My entire tank is automated.
I test the water once a month and dum a bag of salt into a bucket (50 gallon bag, 52 gallon bucket that auto fills with RODI)
My apex changes 2 gallons a day for me, doses for me, controls my heaters, lights, skimmer, kalk, and pretty much everything else. I fill up my two auto feeders once a month, and replace empty bottles of phyto with full ones. It makes a having a tank so much easier then I ever thought.
When I had to evacuate very suddenly last year, I didn’t worry about anything except refilling my auto feeders. (I had 2 weeks left, but felt safer with a whole months food supply)

 

[TheHarold]

This is capitalism. The buyers set the prices.

If you think you can introduce a similar quality product for less, go for it!

 

[ca1ore]

This is just silly. If you think something lacks value (benefits - cost = value), don’t buy it. If enough people make that calculation, ETM will either drop the price of their equipment or close their doors. A few years back there was a sizable price reduction across the vortech range in response (I assumed) to the cheap pumps coming out of China. But it’s basic supply and demand - if enough people are willing to pay the entry fee, why reduce the price.

 

[Burrito]

this is a stupidly expensive hobby when it comes to hard goods.... i understand fish and coral, someone has to collect it and what not but manufacturing/ r&d,etc should not cost so much for a pump or light. a smart phone which i would argue is x times more complicated is the same price as ONE radion fixture.

/rant, my wife thinks everything cost $20

 

[MSB123]

Instead, I'll continue making snow angles in my pile of Jabeo wavemakers and return pumps while waiting patiently for an affordable aquarium controller from the asian markets - a market sector that companies like vortech and apex don't want to fill because they are too busy screwing us over.

How many Jebao pumps do you own? I can assure you that buying 5 Jebao products over 3-5 years ($300 in value) is much harder then spending $400 on an MP40. Its irritating when a pump dies and having exquipment that may fail at any time isn’t really an exciting prospect!

 

[MSB123]

This is capitalism. The buyers set the prices. Get used to it.

If you think you can introduce a similar quality product for less, go for it!

Do you also complain that a Bugatti is a million bucks?

"Oh, I could get thirty Toyotas for that price!"

Exactly.

 

[justmee]

I wouldn't say it's about greed. You have to understand that there's a cost for innovation, and with a limit amount of buyers (amount of people in the saltwater hobby) and the amount of competition, some companies DO have to charge higher to be able to stay in business. Also, without these companies innovating and running R&D (research and development), the saltwater hobby probably wouldn't have advanced so much in the past several years. IMHO, I think these companies are benefiting this hobby and the environment rather than hurting it.

I totally understand some equipment are expensive, but you have to choice to buy or not.

 

[Sierra_Bravo]

Its 2020, are you making products for the benefit and advancement of the hobby, or for your wallets?

Wallets, with the side benefit of helping the hobby, and there is nothing wrong with that as long as people are willing to pay the asking price. I would not be in business if it wasn't to make a profit, otherwise I'd have started a charity.

These threads tend to pop up over and over again and what is being stated can be applied to nearly each and every other item in the consumer marketplace. I'll point to the statement "while waiting patiently for an affordable aquarium controller from the asian markets". When that item exists there will be that option to buy. What is stopping anyone from jumping on that opportunity and making it happen themselves? Sounds like a great chance to risk some money and start a business - except for that no profit margin standard.

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[roberthu526]

To me it’s a free market and both sides can do what they want as long as neither force the other party into something. Yes I agree is price is too high but you can simply not buy them. It’s that easy.

 

[Elder1945]

I wonder how many MP60's are built vs lets say a GTX1060 .

 

[virtual reality]

I would like to think you are buying good customer service, not just a product.

 

[BigKid4788]

It always makes me smile when these threads pop up. The aquarium hobby is only as expensive as one makes it. Most product lines come in cheap, inexpensive, middle of the road and premium price. Nobody make someone get the Ecotech product line. There are competitors that go up against and sell their product solely on price. Bashing a company because you either cannot afford or choose not to pay their asking price doesn't mean they are wrong. People pay $6 for a cup of coffee that you can get at the gas station for $.75. As long as people choose to buy the products (I'm one of them) they will keep the price where its at. My .02

 

[Fish_Sticks]

These are good discussions so far. Thanks for all your input!