The Other Way to Run a Reef Tank (no Quarantine)

[Frogger]

That is awesome, good for you. I am jealous. I have no real need for one but have been egging my wife on for years to get one. Nothing fancy just a compound. I am actually closer to getting a 3d printer.

I get way more use out of my dissecting scope. You can always take a sample of your algae/bacteria/dino to your local fish store, most of the quality stores have compound microscopes and can also help with the id.

With a dissecting scope I can take a new frag and do a full inspection in a cup of tank water. I can easily move it around to get a complete view of the coral.

 

[Paul B]

My microscope, just to the right and above the red heat gun is from circa 1900.
I use it all the time but it only shows me images of Trilobites.

 

[Frogger]

I use it all the time but it only shows me images of Trilobites.

Your tank has been set up so long you may well have trilobites in it.

 

[mshonk]

My microscope, just to the right and above the red heat gun is from circa 1900.
I use it all the time but it only shows me images of Trilobites.

Had to google trilobites.

 

[Hermie]

Besides an occasional micron filtering, is there any mechanical filtration in "The Other Way to Run a Reef Tank" ? I ask because I think I am filtering out many copepods by using filter floss... Rotifers seem unaffected

 

[fishybizzness]

One thing I've noticed is that alot of the older, most successful mature tanks have some algae scattered around and aren't pristine and spotless! I believe in only cleaning the front and sides of my tank and leaving the back glass alone. I believe that it makes the perfect place for pods to breed and a great grazing area for the fish and shrimp! It also looks more natural than a spotless glass..

 

[Paul B]

Besides an occasional micron filtering, is there any mechanical filtration in "The Other Way to Run a Reef Tank" ?

Not really.

 

[MnFish1]

Not really.

Isn’t the undergravel filter mechanical filtration? Btw I think it might be key to you ich fighting ability

 

[Paul B]

I guess the UG filter is a sort of mechanical filter but with gravel it isn't filtering much.
The UG filter is also not needed in an un quarantined tank.
I like them because there is oxygen all through the substrate, therefore, life all through the gravel. Life equals healthy mandarins and pipefish.

 

[atoll]

I guess the UG filter is a sort of mechanical filter but with gravel it isn't filtering much.
The UG filter is also not needed in an un quarantined tank.
I like them because there is oxygen all through the substrate, therefore, life all through the gravel. Life equals healthy mandarins and pipefish.

I have a mixture of sand and small gravel.

 

[MnFish1]

I guess the UG filter is a sort of mechanical filter but with gravel it isn't filtering much.
The UG filter is also not needed in an un quarantined tank.
I like them because there is oxygen all through the substrate, therefore, life all through the gravel. Life equals healthy mandarins and pipefish.

The reason I wonder if it doesn't help keep an 'immune tank' is interesting (IMO). When theCI falls off the fish and then goes to encyst it does it in the early morning hours (in darkness). The fish who are usually hiding in a certain part of the tank perhaps near the 'gravel' thus have a hundreds of CI particles that encyst in the area in which they are sleeping. One theory is that fish tend to 'bed down' in the same spot every night - meaning that in several days now infections theronts which also tend to become free swimming in darkness - will have a ready host to infect laying right there. Only 5-20% of theronts infect a fish. Thus:

My theory (which I read in an article on CI) - is that a high flow tank - or a tank with an under gravel filter disperses the CI falling off a given fish - such that re-infection of these is much less likely. This would mean that the UG filter may have a very big role in decreasing likelihood of infection.

 

[fishybizzness]

I currently run 2 gyre 230 pumps on my 55 gal dt in oceanic gyre mode. I've been doing this for some time. At night, the pumps run in a circular pattern and pull water from the whole bottom of the tank in alternating cycles. You can see it by the motion of the gorgonians I have in the tank. It then floods into the overflow and into the sump. The first section of sump is where my ozone fed skimmer is. The water then flows through the sump to the return section and pumps back into the dt. On my return line I have a manifold feeding my uv and returning to the first chamber of the sump. I run my uv from 9 PM to 7 am. I feel that both my ozone and my uv keep the crypto at a manageable level for the fish. I also feel that alot of the newly hatched crypto get pulled out of the dt and get subjected to both ozone and uv. This double treatment does not kill all of them but I do feel it keeps them at a level that the fish can deal with. I have also not noticed any negative effects on the pods in the tank as anytime I shine a flashlight on the glass in either the dt or the sump they are literally crawling everywhere. What are your thoughts on my system and my theories?

 

[Gareth elliott]

https://www.advancedaquarist.com/blog/microbe-populations-in-saltwater-aquariums-highly-dynamic
wasn’t looking for this but while on advancedaquarist found this article and made me think of Pauls mud.

 

[Paul B]

Gareth, I found this interesting in your link:
Quote:

An additional study of a smaller system at Shedd Aquarium (Chicago) analyzing the microbiome of aquariums after water changes "showed that water column microbiome diversity and evenness increased and stability decreased after a 90% water change in a 1,600 gallon salt water habitat. This study provided evidence for rapid turnover of microbial taxa following water changes in aquariums."

I always thought too much water changing decreased stability and the reason so many, mostly Noobs have so many problems with parameters. To much water changing.

 

[Gareth elliott]

Gareth, I found this interesting in your link:
Quote:

An additional study of a smaller system at Shedd Aquarium (Chicago) analyzing the microbiome of aquariums after water changes "showed that water column microbiome diversity and evenness increased and stability decreased after a 90% water change in a 1,600 gallon salt water habitat. This study provided evidence for rapid turnover of microbial taxa following water changes in aquariums."

I always thought too much water changing decreased stability and the reason so many, mostly Noobs have so many problems with parameters. To much water changing. [emoji1]

I wonder if that finding could be used to ones benefit in some events.

Like dinoflagellates. Large water change, and using the nsw to deliver new microfauna, coupled with the increased diversity that occurs after a water change would increase the chances of a competitor or predator microorganisms would take hold?

What i found most interesting was that a closed with changes too small for detection had the changes it did it microfauna diversity. And the implications this could hold for shifting a tank towards desired microfauna could be possible. Be it adding a bottle or adding live rock.

 

[Gareth elliott]

Since you are online, what are your thoughts on this.

In another thread discussion moved to making your own “ocean rock”. In spirit of testing this placed 10lbs of dry rock in a crab trap in the lagoon behind my house(manasquan inlet).

Plan is to check its diversity vs my actual fiji rock with a microscope come summer.
Do you think this is long enough?

 

[MnFish1]

Since you are online, what are your thoughts on this.

In another thread discussion moved to making your own “ocean rock”. In spirit of testing this placed 10lbs of dry rock in a crab trap in the lagoon behind my house(manasquan inlet).

Plan is to check its diversity vs my actual fiji rock with a microscope come summer.
Do you think this is long enough?

Within a month you should be good to go depending on what kind of diversity you’re looking for

 

[Paul B]

I used to do that with rock under my boat. Now my boat is at a river delta and mostly fresh water so all I would get is tadpoles.

 

[PghReef]

Barely scratched the surface of this thread, only the first 10 pages but plan to continue reading as time permits. Lots of useful information for thought on both sides. I appreciate the input from members who have pioneered this hobby. A lot of new research and methods come out that is not always necessarily better. I do believe a lot of good practice gets lost in the learning of the newest high tech advancements of not just this hobby, but is applicable to many hobbies.

My main concern is with diseases that progress rapidly and can take out a tank like velvet more so than ich which can be managed and allowed to persist so fish develop an immunity. Wouldn't a velvet infection progress and weaken a fish so fast that the fish would never get a chance to boost their immune system to fight and attain immunity?

I do think food is key but if we obtain a sick malnourished fish from subtheraputic copper dosed holding tank how do we get them strong enough to build their immune system before they succumb to the illness. I tend to see a middle ground in most debates, this one no different. If fish look healthy and you follow a protocol similar to Paul's I believe you can be successful. However if you obtain a fish that is obviously in an advanced state of illness and malnourished then I think early intervention might be the best option. Selection of good healthy looking fish from a reputable dealer would go a long way with this method. Ordering fish online and utilizing a no qt system would probably be difficult.

I never did QT but I do not buy $1000 fish either and most of my money is tied up in my corals, not fish. I used to spend a long time looking at my purchase before pulling the trigger, but having a baby rushed things a bit. I just added a baby regal tang that had a few spots on it, appears to be a minor ich infestation. I am feeding lrs twice daily and let algae grow on the back wall. It's been 48 hours and the 2 clowns are still symptom free, 1 is 7 years old and the other a year. They came from lfs and went right into the tank with the lfs water. The spots on the tang are very small but she is very active and eating like a pig. If I see a huge advancement in the outbreak I will remove the fish to treat and leave empty for the required time. I am very hopeful however that with proper nutrition and husbandry the fish will be just fine. I understand if I neglect my tank and dont perform the routine maintenance, continue to feed well, or cause other excessive stress then I will likely have an outbreak on my hands. One could argue that if the above were to take place the fishes health as well as the coral and tank as a whole would have many issues and probably losses regardless of qt or not.

 

[Frogger]

I just added a baby regal tang that had a few spots on it, appears to be a minor ich infestation. I am feeding lrs twice daily and let algae grow on the back wall. It's been 48 hours and the 2 clowns are still symptom free, 1 is 7 years old and the other a year.

I never met a regal tang that didn't have ich. I had one in my 250 non-reef tank for over 15 years before he died. Every time I changed anything or added a new fish he would break out in ich. I think the key to managing ich in these situations is tank bio-diversity (competition for the parasite ), healthy fish and a low stress environment. If you get a tank wide breakout you likely lack one or more of these 3 things.