The Other Way to Run a Reef Tank (no Quarantine)

[JumboShrimp]

4”, and yet they really don’t take up much prime real estate. Other than swim up to grab food, they are generally on a rock or the bottom (as you probably know). Best wishes.

 

[Paul B]

LabrodorGirl. Any fish, invert or coral I buy I just acclimate for a little while, maybe 15 minutes depending on the salinity of the water in the bag, and put them right into my DT. No dipping, observing or other fanfare.
Fish from the sea all have some immunity. Quarantining will possibly make them sick. My job is to get them happy, safe and eating as soon as possible so they keep that immunity. It works probably 99% of the time.

 

[Oldsalt]

I sold 10 three month old Banggai Cardinal fish to my LFS last week. The guy looked in the bag and said they looked very healthy. I told him that I did a lot of husbandry to get them like this. He paid me $150 then promptly emptied them into a spare tank. No floating. No water mixing.

 

[Jase4224]

I sold 10 three month old Banggai Cardinal fish to my LFS last week. The guy looked in the bag and said they looked very healthy. I told him that I did a lot of husbandry to get them like this. He paid me $150 then promptly emptied them into a spare tank. No floating. No water mixing.

The owner of the first LFS I used to go to did this with every fish he got in. Ironically I never lost a fish to disease from his store except for the two fish I tried to qt thinking it was the right thing to do.

 

[Oldsalt]

The owner of the first LFS I used to go to did this with every fish he got in. Ironically I never lost a fish to disease from his store except for the two fish I tried to qt thinking it was the right thing to do.

I never had a sick fish, coral or anemone from this store. Been buying from them for over 2 years. The supervisor said that if anything dies from doing this, they probably weren't fit enough to begin with.
I don't QT but I do float and swap water over a ~ 15 to 30 minute period. Then I get the fish eating asap.

 

[mcarroll]

But my question was if there is any study showing a correlation between cyanide capture and the weakening of their immunity system?

https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=cyanide+immunity+fish

(I think I fixed the link – should have three search terms after you click it)

You should be able to get an idea as to the relationship between cyanide and immunity from the results of that search. Hopefully this helps!

 

[Jase4224]

I never had a sick fish, coral or anemone from this store. Been buying from them for over 2 years. The supervisor said that if anything dies from doing this, they probably weren't fit enough to begin with.
I don't QT but I do float and swap water over a ~ 15 to 30 minute period. Then I get the fish eating asap.

Which store is that? I’ll have to go have a look

 

[Oldsalt]

Which store is that? I’ll have to go have a look

Pet Magic Cannington West Australia

 

[KrisReef]

I got a hippo tang last week just so I can say I have a tang. I personally find tangs boreing except for hippo's so I got one as they don't bore me to much. It is a very young one and when he gets big I may give him away.
I got him with this big white mark on him because I just told the LFS owner to catch me one of the many tangs he had in a tank and I didn't look at it.


But in a few days, with no help from me, the mark disappeared. Excuse him as he is pooping here



After a day in my tank he was scratching a little like tangs often do when you remove them from the copper in a dealer's tank, but that is over now and he continues to smile even though I never use a lettuce clip or feed nori. I don't have any anyway.
He eats what the other fish eat and he has to like it or buy his own food.;

@Paul B
I picked up a Foxface lo a few weeks back because he looked doomed in the lfs and I had some bubble algae to feed him. The algae is gone and he is looking happier now but I did notice some of that "stringy poop" that is reported to be a sign of internal parasites.

Do you do anything special for fish with trail strings? I don't know if they make a fleet for a Foxface lo but I'd like to help him get clear if I can. Any specific help available beyond live nutrition? The fish looks kinda thin and lumpy along the lateral midsections and I hope to help improve this. Thanks.

 

[Paul B]

Kris, I really don't like to put medication of any kind in my tank especially if it's only one fish that I want to treat and I know how impossible it is to catch a foxface but PrizaPro is about the only easily acquired medication thing that may help that fish. Of course it may clear up on it's own. Supposedly you can put Prizapro in a coral reef tank but I personally have never done it. It will kill many types of worms, even worms that you may want to keep as not all worms are harmful. I don't know of a medication that will mix with food but I do recall medicated foods available, but I have never tried them.

If I were you, and the fish looks worse, I would really try to catch him and put him in a spare tank to treat with Prizapro. A week should do it. But remember we are guessing as we don't have fish MRIs and like in people we can't cure everything as the fish may have some obscure affliction .

Good luck.

 

[KrisReef]

Kris, I really don't like to put medication of any kind in my tank especially if it's only one fish that I want to treat and I know how impossible it is to catch a foxface but PrizaPro is about the only easily acquired medication thing that may help that fish. Of course it may clear up on it's own. Supposedly you can put Prizapro in a coral reef tank but I personally have never done it. It will kill many types of worms, even worms that you may want to keep as not all worms are harmful. I don't know of a medication that will mix with food but I do recall medicated foods available, but I have never tried them.

If I were you, and the fish looks worse, I would really try to catch him and put him in a spare tank to treat with Prizapro. A week should do it. But remember we are guessing as we don't have fish MRIs and like in people we can't cure everything as the fish may have some obscure affliction .

Good luck.

Thanks Paul. I was hoping you had another magic bullet and agree that Prazi in the reef is like dropping a bunker buster bomb in a city to clean-up and mitigate an old leaking underground gasoline tank on a busy street corner. Too much potential for collateral damage but effective if the old station absolutely has to be excavated and fuel removed completely by tomorrow. I've been watching him and I think the string problem is going away and I'm going to try increasing food rations in the tank to see if I can bulk him up a bit. Otherwise, I'll have to net and get him into treatment.
Thanks again,
kris

 

[Lasse]

IMO - a thin white poop is not automatically a sign of internal parasites. It is basically the fish getting ride of a mucus layer from the digestive tract and could be done of many reasons. The only disease there I have seen a tiny white poop as one of the indications of a disease is infection of diplomonad flagellates (hexamite like flagellates) but always together with other symptoms - the most important - not eating or spitting out food (the first day of the disease) And in this case - only drugs base on metronidazole or its derivatives are effective. And - very important to say - helminth infections (infection of internal worms) in the digestive tract can take place even without a tiny white stringy poop as an indication. If a fish eating good but loosing weight and get thinner and thinner - use anti helminth drugs like Prazi in the food. More discussion of the topic - in this thread

Sincerely Lasse

 

[KrisReef]

IMO - a thin white poop is not automatically a sign of internal parasites. It is basically the fish getting ride of a mucus layer from the digestive tract and could be done of many reasons. The only disease there I have seen a tiny white poop as one of the indications of a disease is infection of diplomonad flagellates (hexamite like flagellates) but always together with other symptoms - the most important - not eating or spitting out food (the first day of the disease) And in this case - only drugs base on metronidazole or its derivatives are effective. And - very important to say - helminth infections (infection of internal worms) in the digestive tract can take place even without a tiny white stringy poop as an indication. If a fish eating good but loosing weight and get thinner and thinner - use anti helminth drugs like Prazi in the food. More discussion of the topic - in this thread

Sincerely Lasse

@Lasse
Thank you. He seems to be getting bolder and eating more when he can. Thanks for the alternative hypothesis on stringy poop.
Kris

 

[Aquajan]

Good read!

When I introduced my first 2 clowns (in a 6 weeks old tank) they got alot of ick and they recovered from it in about 2/3 weeks.
Months later I threw a yellow tang in the tank and it had just a few white spots for a day or 2.
Since the tang never seen a sign of ick again and I never QTed.

 

[balajeek15]

Nice article but would I try this method?

I setup a new tank, cycled, started adding fish every week up to 10 fishes, then whichever fish got velvet had killed every fish in my tank every single day, I was feeding the flake food only. So based on your theory if i fed bacteria contained food the fish would've lived!

Its been more than a year since and i QT every two fishes i buy for a month before it goes to DT.

 

[MW319]

Nice article but would I try this method?

I setup a new tank, cycled, started adding fish every week up to 10 fishes, then whichever fish got velvet had killed every fish in my tank every single day, I was feeding the flake food only. So based on your theory if i fed bacteria contained food the fish would've lived!

Its been more than a year since and i QT every two fishes i buy for a month before it goes to DT.

Do you treat them with anything while they are in quarantine or do you just observe them and treat if anything develops?

 

[balajeek15]

Do you treat them with anything while they are in quarantine or do you just observe them and treat if anything develops?

First few rounds of QT in the past i use 27days of CP (Chloroquine Phosphate) treatment no matter what.
As you know some fishes are not compatible with this CP i had a the recent rounds of QT where i first observe and treat with CP (Copper Power), in my case observing seem ich keeps coming back so i had to treat them.

As the article mentions the LFS i know use copper (guess some low ppm may not be at the therapeutic level) in the tank so fishes are fine when you buy them.

 

[Kenneth Hooper]

Honestly, it's good to see validation for what I do.
I'm both too lazy and mostly too impatient to quarantine.
I have had one fish die from Ich but I really think my treatment and not the disease killed it.

 

[BudgetReefer007]

its just like humans..

the old school ways you didnt clean or do anything, you let it cycle and build diversity (old tank syndrome).. i didnt go back that far but its really come a long way. without this kind of knowledge the hobby could creat its own dustbowl and without these kind of forums we wouldnt be able to get it. thank you Paul and thanks r2r!

ive never quarantined and set up other tanks using my first just for this reason, building bio! i keep a fish for the crawly guys and let my fish do their thing. i ordered a fish and got a blow out eye and damaged body and after 5/6 months its nearly all healed (even the eye!).

KISS

 

[Neptune 555]

@Paul B
I picked up a Foxface lo a few weeks back because he looked doomed in the lfs and I had some bubble algae to feed him. The algae is gone and he is looking happier now but I did notice some of that "stringy poop" that is reported to be a sign of internal parasites.

Do you do anything special for fish with trail strings? I don't know if they make a fleet for a Foxface lo but I'd like to help him get clear if I can. Any specific help available beyond live nutrition? The fish looks kinda thin and lumpy along the lateral midsections and I hope to help improve this. Thanks.

yyaaayyyy Paul you finally added a tang! That gives more credibility to the nonbelievers. I just wish you took and documented taking a tang home with ich and then the fish living happily ever after in your tank. I warn you the blue hippo tangs are dfn cute and do have personality.. I had thought when mine outgrew my tank I would give it away too.... Instead I upgraded to a 180 to keep him b/c I loved him!!

Keep us posted on how he does. Yes feeding tangs black worms dfn gets rid of that spot. It also works with blue spotted puffer fish.

Best of luck with your new fish!
Neptune