The Other Way to Run a Reef Tank (no Quarantine)

[MnFish1]

Quarantine means any time spent away from other fish, diseases, parasites etc. But in this discussion I think we should go with what many people feel is the time period to keep fish separate so the parasites go through their cycle and die.
I hear 72 days a lot so lets say two months.

Medication means just that. If you buy a new fish and put it in anything besides seawater, be it Prizapro, copper, formalin, metheline blue, quinicrine hydrocloride or anything else that comes in a bottle. I don't feel fresh water dipping is that bad because I also have to occasionally do that for flukes, but only for like 2 minutes, possibly 3 if the fish is not to stressed. Then the fish goes right into my reef.
I rarely do that, but occasionally even though I know it severely stresses the fish.

I feel a fish should be acclimated for maybe 20 or 30 minutes depending on the salinity and temperature of the water in the bag. If the temperature and salinity is the same, 5 minutes of acclimation should be enough.

Remember, very important, in a very new tank, no matter if you throw the fish right in or quarantine for a year, you will most likely have problems as fish hate new water with new rocks. Bacteria needs months to settle down and make the tank healthy and stable enough to allow any system to work. It is what it is.

OK someone who doesn't mind argueing with like everyone, put up a poll.

Thanks. As I said - I don't Quarantine - and my GUESS - is that most people that 'quarantine' - do not do it for 72 days. So - its kind of an artificial disagreement right? As to medication - I have not used any medication for at least 15 years - for any reason. So see - we agree.

 

[MnFish1]

I would LOVE a survey like this, assuming honest answers. I'm getting back into the hobby after a 12 year hiatus and am 3 weeks into my DT cycle. I have also been cycling a 20g long QT, but have gotten so many mixed messages on the need to quarantine, including the additional stress that quarantining has on a fish and the risk of overtreating with copper, etc., that I'm not even sure I'm going to QT, and maybe just leave the tank up as a hospital tank. I know risk of prevention = lb of cure, but I'm really confused. Add to this the fact that my LFS is super clean and run by a husband & wife who go to great lengths to ensure their livestock is healthy prior to selling (recognizing that there are zero guarantees). They are not against individual quarantining, just do not actively promote it.

You can create your own poll - and then you would get answers. I just tried to create one to find out 'whats the duration most people use for 'Quarantine'? but all the responses were not added - and I cant edit it

 

[ReeferRod]

I’ve been following this thread and find it quite interesting. I have recently acquired a 75 gallon with a sump and a 25 gallon Nuvo AIO. My original plan was to make the 25 gallon a quarantine tank and the 75 gallon my main display tank. I have been cycling the 75 gallon for over week with live rock that I had curing for 5 weeks. The fish that were given to me with the tank are a blue hippo tank and two black and white clown fish Have been sitting in a 20 gallon brute garbage can and doing well. My 75 gallon parameters are as follows Nitrite 0, Nitrate 20, Amonia 0, ph 7.8, salinity 1.24, and using Tropic Marin Pro reef salt. I was going to wait another month to complete the 76 days of quarantine in the bucket and then put the fish in the 75 gallon display tank? Now reading this thread, am I doing the fish no good quarantining in the bucket. I have not medicated, I’ve been observing them every day. The fish are very active with great appetites With no signs of any diseases. I have been doing week;y water changes in the bucket and using a sponge filter on an aquaclear power head with a bubbler as well. I am also waiting the 76 days to put the fish from the 25 gallon lagoon in to the 75 gallon display tank, any thoughts?

 

[Paul B]

is that most people that 'quarantine' - do not do it for 72 days.

Two posts below yours, the guy wants to quarantine in a bucket for 76 days.
People have all sorts of Ideas how long to quarantine for.

ReeferRod, I don't think it's a good Idea to quarantine any animal in a bucket for 76 days.
If you really want to quarantine I would do it in something that looks like a tank with real hiding places.

Of course I wouldn't quarantine myself, but a lot of people like to do that. You have to make up your own mind what you want to do,

 

[ReeferRod]

Two posts below yours, the guy wants to quarantine in a bucket for 76 days.
People have all sorts of Ideas how long to quarantine for.

ReeferRod, I don't think it's a good Idea to quarantine any animal in a bucket for 76 days.
If you really want to quarantine I would do it in something that looks like a tank with real hiding places.

Of course I wouldn't quarantine myself, but a lot of people like to do that. You have to make up your own mind what you want to do,

The bucket has live rock to hide, do you think it’s better to use the 25 gallon lagoon instead? Photos were posted. Thank you

 

[Paul B]

Rod, the fish may feel comfortable in there but you can see them to know if they are well or eating.
Also that much plastic in a small place will add a lot of plasticisizers to the water especially if it is a new bucket. Thats the stuff that gives it a plastic smell and keeps the plastic plyable. Especially in that bucket which is flexible PVC. We don't know how harmful that stuff is but we know it off gases from new plastic and some people feel it is harmful.

Older buckets, I feel are better.
But besides that, I know I want to see the fish to see whats going on. But like I said, I am the wrong guy to ask because I feel quarantining is one of the worst things we invented.

 

[ReeferRod]

Rod, the fish may feel comfortable in there but you can see them to know if they are well or eating.
Also that much plastic in a small place will add a lot of plasticisizers to the water especially if it is a new bucket. Thats the stuff that gives it a plastic smell and keeps the plastic plyable. Especially in that bucket which is flexible PVC. We don't know how harmful that stuff is but we know it off gases from new plastic and some people feel it is harmful.

Older buckets, I feel are better.
But besides that, I know I want to see the fish to see whats going on. But like I said, I am the wrong guy to ask because I feel quarantining is one of the worst things we invented.

Thank you for the advice, I’m going to transition them to the tank this weekend and hope that this non quarantine method works out for me? You guys have brought some good insight especially to those, who prefer not to medicate unnecessarily. I think I’m going to quarantine/observe any future fish in the 25 gallon lagoon pictured in my post, wait a few weeks to ensure good eating behaviors as well as good health then acclimate them to the 75 gallon main tank or should I just acclimate them to the 75 gallon tank from the start and keep the 25 gallon tank strictly for corals?

 

[Paul B]

Rod, remember it's not just throwing fish in. They have to be in the best shape they can be in and only food and no stress will do that. Dry foods won't help.
New tanks are never healthy

 

[ReeferRod]

Lol, I understand I’m not just throwing fish in an aquarium, I’ve had a few saltwater tanks that have been smaller with hob refugium and skimmer that I never quarantined fish, just acclimated in a bag with water fill and had some success. Yes I’ve lost fish to disease, which this time with this setup, I’ve considered doing quarantining to be a bit different with hopefully better success. After reading this post, I think I was on the right track previously, I just have a better understanding and knowledge and wanted to attempt a better way to keep fish healthy. This is why this post is so interesting and informative helping me come up with a hybrid process, like you guys have suggested. I’m always willing to learn and share.

 

[MnFish1]

Two posts below yours, the guy wants to quarantine in a bucket for 76 days.
People have all sorts of Ideas how long to quarantine for.

right - that was my point - so when someone says anything 'positive' or 'negative' about quarantine - its important to make sure that the definition of quarantine is. Since the title of the article is 'the other way to run a reef tank - no quarantine' - and you define it as 76 days - to me its a little unclear - here is a link to a poll - I hope everyone here answers the 'duration' question.

What is your DURATION of 'quarantine'

So - recently in another thread - there were a couple posts about what the definition of QT is, whether to do it, etc - Many people this to be a one side vs another side - I tend to think its 50 different methods - and its impossible to compare - so FOR THIS POLL - its not about MEDICATION AT...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[Paul B]

My Ich magnet Hippo tang has been in my tank for maybe 6 or 8 months and no ich yet. He has also never been fed nori or any dry food.

 

[MnFish1]

My Ich magnet Hippo tang has been in my tank for maybe 6 or 8 months and no ich yet. He has also never been fed nori or any dry food.

Except every couple weeks - when I feed LRS - I feed flake food. Protein, carbohydrates and fats are all broken down into the same things - Now - would I only feed fat to my fish - or - only carbs - no - but I guess I agree with you nori is overrated - as is live food.

 

[theMeat]

Except every couple weeks - when I feed LRS - I feed flake food. Protein, carbohydrates and fats are all broken down into the same things - Now - would I only feed fat to my fish - or - only carbs - no - but I guess I agree with you nori is overrated - as is live food.

LRS offers some you some “live food” benefits because it fresh, and freshly frozen.

 

[Paul B]

I use that every day. But it is not the only thing I feed. I know Larry the owner and he makes a very good quality product.
The reason I also feed live worms with this is for the living gut bacteria. As I said multiple times. I have nothing to prove. My tank is very old and never had a sick fish.

Have a great New Year.

 

[MnFish1]

I use that every day. But it is not the only thing I feed. I know Larry the owner and he makes a very good quality product.
The reason I also feed live worms with this is for the living gut bacteria. As I said multiple times. I have nothing to prove. My tank is very old and never had a sick fish.

Have a great New Year.

Agree - you dont have to 'prove' anything - but lets face it there are lots of people that have tanks set up - with no disease either. I feed mostly flake food - aside for 'accidents' - I could make the same statement. I know you talk about 40 years - but - my guess is that you've had fish die in the tank (in fact you've said it) - doesn't that mean 'by definition' that you have had sick fish. I mean - even if a fish dies after a long life - it was still 'sick' (or maybe you're just meaning 'infection' sick.

 

[Cell]

Sorry if this has been answered previously within the thread, but is this method viable for a new reefer starting from scratch in a landlocked area? I'm sure you would have to take it slow and build up immunity over time, but just how much time before one can drop fish in from their local LFS and have the necessary protection to not have to deal with sick and dying fish?

 

[theMeat]

Sorry if this has been answered previously within the thread, but is this method viable for a new reefer starting from scratch in a landlocked area? I'm sure you would have to take it slow and build up immunity over time, but just how much time before one can drop fish in from their local LFS and have the necessary protection to not have to deal with sick and dying fish?

Not sure there’s a simple answer here. Depends on many variables. Size of tank, type of fish, how many. Did you start with cured live rock, sand, dry, from ocean, etc.
On a small or crowded tank I don’t see this alone working.
My .02

 

[Paul B]

Agree - you dont have to 'prove' anything - but lets face it there are lots of people that have tanks set up - with no disease either. I feed mostly flake food - aside for 'accidents' - I could make the same statement. I know you talk about 40 years - but - my guess is that you've had fish die in the tank (in fact you've said it) - doesn't that mean 'by definition' that you have had sick fish. I mean - even if a fish dies after a long life - it was still 'sick' (or maybe you're just meaning 'infection' sick.

No it doesn't. Usually when I say I haven't lost a fish to a disease in 40 years I say I haven't lost a fish to a "communicable" disease. If I don't put "communicable" in there it is because I am lazy but I always post any fish that dies.

As you said I have lost fish all my life. I posted about all of them. Besides the old age that they mostly all die of the rest of them died from #1, jumping out.

12 year old watchman gobi dying of old age


I lost a ruby red dragonette last week which I posted.


I also lost a female mandarin from being egg bound, which I posted about.


Egg bound cardinal


Egg bound mandarin



This Bangai Cardinal died of old age shortly after I took this picture. He was about 5 years old. Their lifespan in the sea is about three years. You can see his eye is getting a little bacterial infection. That is because his immune system is shutting down. His mate also died.



I can't remember any other fish dying of anything but never, but never a communicable disease. As you know I have been writing articles from way before computers were invented so before the internet in paper Magazines like FAMMA and you will never find anything I have written after about the early 80s of any ich, velvet, bacterial or anything else except what I have said.

Old age, jumping out and being egg bound are not diseases. Healthy fish became egg bound very frequently because they just develop to many eggs and in a tank they may only have one male. Maybe in the sea that doesn't happen because there are more males, but I am guessing.

It is easy to tell if a fish died of this. Cut them open and see the eggs.

 

[Paul B]

Sorry if this has been answered previously within the thread, but is this method viable for a new reefer starting from scratch in a landlocked area? I'm sure you would have to take it slow and build up immunity over time, but just how much time before one can drop fish in from their local LFS and have the necessary protection to not have to deal with sick and dying fish?

You are correct, it will not work in a new tank. Especially if you are using dry rock and ASW. Nothing will work in a new tank because no new tanks are healthy. I wrote an article in my book about this but somewhere in the beginning of my book it reads, "This book is not for Noobs with a new tank" or something like that.

Noobs will always have problems but it is not your fault so don't beat yourself up. It is the bacteria and other micro fauna's fault. Those are the things that run our tanks, not you. They determine when you can add corals, when certain fish can be added and when the tank will generally be healthy. It will not happen in a year or two, sorry.

But to make you feel better, this hobby has no end (I just posted this someplace) There is no time you will say, I finally did it and can call my tank a success. (I can and will explain)

Keeping a tank is like sailing an expensive Yacht. You don't really want to get any place, you are enjoying the journey, the scenery, the breeze, and gentle water splashing on you, the conversation and wine.

The only end to that pleasure is the dock at the end. Unless of course you sink. Just like your tank crashing.

If you wanted to get someplace, why would you board a very expensive piece of machinery and go maybe 5 MPH while getting splashed?

In March of this year my reef will be running fifty years. All of the time that I have had this tank running I said many times that I won't call it a success until it is 50 years old. That is the age I placed on what I can call success. Some people may say 6 months is success. That is their goal.

I also said many times, that if it runs 50 years I will call my theory about not quarantining and how bacteria and parasites react with the tank correct.
I think that time is long enough to prove my thoughts as no scientific test lasts that long.

All the people for almost 50 years that keep saying "I have been lucky" that velvet didn't crash my tank are wrong. It is not luck and in March I will call it a success. If it crashes then. It is still a success.

Using my own criteria for my own tank, I can't call any quarantined tank a success until one reaches 50 years old. I am not sure how long I can wait because as my tank has been aging, I have not been in a coma or in space traveling faster than the speed of light looking for the end of the universe which I know is a brick wall with tar paper on top and beyond that, Strawberry fields forever.

Prove me wrong.

 

[Jeffcb]

Well said . Good read. Thank you.

I have never quarantined a fish . I don't even own a quarantine tank nor do I plan on it.