The Other Way to Run a Reef Tank (no Quarantine)

[MnFish1]

I’m keeping records of how things develop in my tank, as reported in my tank thread, I had a complete fish wipeout back in October last year, I had had some of these fish for 14 years in 3 different tanks, the last one for 6.5 years, I’d never quarantined anything in all of this time, I added a gold flame angel from a private tank, id observed it on several occasions and new the reefer and his tank, this said fish had been in his tank for over a year and looked completely healthy as did all his other fish... 2 weeks after putting it in my tank all fish dead to what appeared to be velvet, the only survivers a clown fish and cleaner wrasse.. now I have no reason as to why this happened as neither of us had ever seen velvet in our tanks... I had my suspicions, I debated for over a month as to buy this fish or not as I felt my tank was at its fish capacity, all fish had established sleeping holes etc and a very defined heirachy... I knew deep down I was pushing it, but the gold flake was my No1 dream fish and I trusted 100% where I was getting it from.... I still don’t know where this disease came from or why the cascade of events happened... the reason I’m posting this on here now is, this is @Paul B thread, but I feel there are things we don’t understand and we can’t explain everything... unfortunately... I’m currently in the process of restocking and I’m not quarantining again, one thing I won’t do again is overstock and push things and follow my feelings and experiences, as a few of you have said observation and knowing your tank is crucial, spotting the changes, gaining a feel, I ignored my gut feeling and my fish paid a very expensive price..

Here is my 2cents - and I think you might be right - a key question - did you see some negative interaction between the fish, etc. when you added the gold flake. Ie - the gold flake causing stress in the others.

But the other possibilities - the gold flake carried some kind of parasite to which he/she was partially immune. And to which the others were not. The other fish got sick - the numbers of (whatever it was) grew in the tank so high that it overwhelmed even the gold flakes immune system. Or something died - it changed the water chemistry - and thats what killed the rest. You're right though - who knows.

 

[MnFish1]

Could you imagine trying to explain to the majority of how many microscopic virus’ are in a single drop of saltwater taken from the ocean. Let alone whatever else is in a sample.

For this reason I think the OP had a few sitting ducks who’ve bitten his take on biodiversity and parasite contamination from adding all the...... Mud, dirt, seawater, parasite, and the list goes on. to his tank.
Clearly the margin from knowledge to experience is too wide and will possible easily confuse quite a few by making them believe it’s just his magic touch or luck.

A.

Frankly - no clue what this means. And No one has said its his magic touch or luck.

 

[Mortie31]

Here is my 2cents - and I think you might be right - a key question - did you see some negative interaction between the fish, etc. when you added the gold flake. Ie - the gold flake causing stress in the others.

But the other possibilities - the gold flake carried some kind of parasite to which he/she was partially immune. And to which the others were not. The other fish got sick - the numbers of (whatever it was) grew in the tank so high that it overwhelmed even the gold flakes immune system. Or something died - it changed the water chemistry - and thats what killed the rest. You're right though - who knows.

I saw a change in the whole fish heirachy, sleeping holes changed, bickering increased massively. Your thoughts are on the same lines as mine, but more questions than answers, which is why we discuss these things

 

[MnFish1]

But that’s anecdotal... sorry being a git... I’m sure like you and most reading this thread we follow an aweful lot of threads and in my observations the more sterile tanks seem to have more fish health issues... maybe because this style is more popular now or that people are just in to much of a rush stocking immature tanks, i don’t know, but I think instant bacteria, low rock levels and poor fish selection are a huge contributor...

Actually - thats not anecdotal lol its probably more a fact. Those are the universal recommendations for keeping a marine tank

 

[Thales]

But that’s anecdotal... sorry being a git...

Ha! Absolutely, it is. Of course, if someone asked me to support the ideas I could (and I didn't write 'FACT'.

I’m sure like you and most reading this thread we follow an aweful lot of threads and in my observations the more sterile tanks seem to have more fish health issues... maybe because this style is more popular now or that people are just in to much of a rush stocking immature tanks, i don’t know, but I think instant bacteria, low rock levels and poor fish selection are a huge contributor...

This is nothing new. Every seven years or so, the wheel grinds around for another turn...

 

[hotashes]

Frankly - no clue what this means. And No one has said its his magic touch or luck.

Re read it, I’m sure you see it’s a basic comment and not meant to do anything other than open the debate a little wider.

A.

 

[Mortie31]

Actually - thats not anecdotal lol its probably more a fact. Those are the universal recommendations for keeping a marine tank

Maybe therein lies the problem.. time, unnatural and minimalistic ( sorry I used sterile before)

 

[soflmuddin]

Thinking back from what a lot of you have said on here, and my own experience people that don’t quarantine and have fish live for years, there appears to be a few commonalities
1) Tanks not overstacked with fish, and a more careful/ restrained choice of fish
2) Apperently well fed either live or quality dried/ frozen
3) “more natural looking tanks” lots of live rock, sand, inverts, hiding places

1) no, I am overstocked

2) yes I do feed a lot of live shrimp, frozen whole shrimp, frozen krill, frozen mussles, good quality flake food and dried kelp pakaged for sushi.(really only thing not easily sourced in Kansas is the live shrimp)

3) yes lots of live rock, lots of crabs i.e. Sally lightfoot, emerald, clown, stone, hermit
lots of shrimp i.e. mantis, pistol, coral, anemone
Also a lot of serpent stars in display and 10 or so large brittle in refugium
lots of hiding places.

 

[MnFish1]

Re read it, I’m sure you see it’s a basic comment and not meant to do anything other than open the debate a little wider.

A.

Sorry. Here's what I dont understand:

I got the part about the number of organisms in seawater.
Who are the sitting ducks? The people who are questioning the article - or the ones supporting the article?
In the last sentence - It's your use of 'them' (who are they) and who are 'quite a few' - and what is (who) trying to make (whom) believe ...

I think I get it but still not sure

 

[hotashes]

Sorry. Here's what I dont understand:

I got the part about the number of organisms in seawater.
Who are the sitting ducks? The people who are questioning the article - or the ones supporting the article?
In the last sentence - It's your use of 'them' (who are they) and who are 'quite a few' - and what is (who) trying to make (whom) believe ...

I think I get it but still not sure

Let’s not confuse the watching eye anymore, I’m sure you’ve got it

A.

 

[MnFish1]

Let’s not confuse the watching eye anymore, I’m sure you’ve got it

A.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA - I almost used a disallowed word - now I'm completely lost hahahahahaha - but it was funny

 

[hotashes]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA - I almost used a disallowed word - now I'm completely lost hahahahahaha - but it was funny

Ha ha, and no I’m not an illuminati member heh

A.

 

[MnFish1]

Ha ha, and no I’m not an illuminati member heh

A.

So you say...

 

[Paul B]

WEll this thread did what it was supposed to do. Dig up interest and conversation. I was gone for a few hours today getting my wife an MRI, blood tests etc and on our way home I stopped at an LFS thinking I would pick up at least something. The store had nothing I wanted and not much of anything anyway so I was very disappointed. Not even an anemone crab.

I just read the last few pages and it was mostly about my not exactly explaining things exactly like Einstein would have done, but I think I explained my thoughts about what I feel quarantining is and the difference or similarity of a pathogen, bacteria or parasite. If I said parameters don't mean much to fish, thats what I meant. I won't go over those answers again or anything else I already explained. It is what it is. What I said, or implied is the way I think, period. If there is more need for explanation, just figure I was wrong and get past it. I am a big boy and won't take offense. My tank and experience speak for itself and I have no need to prove anything. My fish like me as do my Grand Kids.

 

[hotashes]

So you say...

You just want my details to send me marketing and spam emails ha ha.

I cannot prove this to you, as I cannot provide you with personal details ha ha. Actually R2R may have a little info on their database *grin*

Let’s hope our details are not passed on to third parties *cool*

A.

 

[MnFish1]

WEll this thread did what it was supposed to do. Dig up interest and conversation. I was gone for a few hours today getting my wife an MRI, blood tests etc and on our way home I stopped at an LFS thinking I would pick up at least something. The store had nothing I wanted and not much of anything anyway so I was very disappointed. Not even an anemone crab.

I just read the last few pages and it was mostly about my not exactly explaining things exactly like Einstein would have done, but I think I explained my thoughts about what I feel quarantining is and the difference or similarity of a pathogen, bacteria or parasite. If I said parameters don't mean much to fish, thats what I meant. I won't go over those answers again or anything else I already explained. It is what it is. What I said, or implied is the way I think, period. If there is more need for explanation, just figure I was wrong and get past it. I am a big boy and won't take offense. My tank and experience speak for itself and I have no need to prove anything. My fish like me as do my Grand Kids.

EVERYONE LIKES YOU - INCLUDING ME. Let me be the first to respond to your post. I do wonder why one of your grandchildren is a ninja...

 

[MnFish1]

You just want my details to send me marketing and spam emails ha ha.

I cannot prove this to you, as I cannot provide you with personal details ha ha. Actually R2R may have a little info on their database *grin*

Let’s hope our details are not passed on to third parties *cool*

A.

Are you Jimmy Fallon or something lol.

 

[MnFish1]

WEll this thread did what it was supposed to do. Dig up interest and conversation. I was gone for a few hours today getting my wife an MRI, blood tests etc and on our way home I stopped at an LFS thinking I would pick up at least something. The store had nothing I wanted and not much of anything anyway so I was very disappointed. Not even an anemone crab.

I just read the last few pages and it was mostly about my not exactly explaining things exactly like Einstein would have done, but I think I explained my thoughts about what I feel quarantining is and the difference or similarity of a pathogen, bacteria or parasite. If I said parameters don't mean much to fish, thats what I meant. I won't go over those answers again or anything else I already explained. It is what it is. What I said, or implied is the way I think, period. If there is more need for explanation, just figure I was wrong and get past it. I am a big boy and won't take offense. My tank and experience speak for itself and I have no need to prove anything. My fish like me as do my Grand Kids.

Let me also be the second response. You're being a little soft-skinned. No one said you needed to be Einstein - you're making a false argument - and I'm not afraid to call you on it. OK - so - this is what I was going to write (If you dont like criticism of your logic - dont write articles). But I will say it differently. There are valid points to your article - and there are problems with your article. Own both (ie the positive and negative feedback). But IMHO - as much as I respect you - and sincerely appreciate your input to this hobby and Im being really sincere here. If you write an article with false information - just like the New York times - issue a correction and move on.

 

[MnFish1]

You just want my details to send me marketing and spam emails ha ha.

I cannot prove this to you, as I cannot provide you with personal details ha ha. Actually R2R may have a little info on their database *grin*

Let’s hope our details are not passed on to third parties *cool*

A.

LOL I just looked at your build thread (nice btw) - The H2O2 says it all.

 

[hotashes]

LOL I just looked at your build thread (nice btw) - The H2O2 says it all.

Who ever said you cannot keep a blue stripe pipefish in a 14 gallon/ 54 Litre nano tank. Oh did you hang around long enough to spot my 1” Tridacna Maxima, or the 3” Crocea, you couldn’t have missed the 5” Derasa *grin*.

@DSC reef was very kind in helping me learn the sp.

Catch up soon
*cool*

A.