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Tampa Bay Reef Keepers
R2R Secret Santa 2019
- Jul 21, 2012
- Reaction score
- Longwood, FL
Do you mind sharing what you think the issue was with the flow coming from your closed loop system? Was it pump choice? AC/DC? Outlet placement? Or some other issue? How would you design your system now if you were to go with a Closed loop again?My poorly designed CL worked perfectly fine until the SPS hit the tank. But like you, it's the route I'd go if planning a new one. And not to speak for @blitzkragz either, you really do get used to them being there and it's not the end of the world. Besides, you're supposed to be enjoying the contents not the container...lol.
My attempt at a CL system is kind of hard to explain, but I'll try.Do you mind sharing what you think the issue was with the flow coming from your closed loop system? Was it pump choice? AC/DC? Outlet placement? Or some other issue? How would you design your system now if you were to go with a Closed loop again?
I know another popular option is if you plan on a canopy, drill a closed loop into the Eurobracing on your tank, this alleviates the drain the whole tank problem.
My system is comprised of one 1 1/2" inlet and four 1" outlets. Each outlets will be split in two with locline adapters making 8 3/4" outlets. 2 opposite outlets will be run by one Ecotech Vectra M2 and the others will run off a second M2. I was originally going to run one pump and an Ocean Motion device but after a few attempts to reach out to OM fell on dead ears I decided to skip that approach and go with Dual pumps instead. As I said earlier, my tank is still dry so my flow theories are up in the air for the next couple months anyway.
A potentially seriously embarrassing momentAwe what did I miss!?
Thanks for the detailed outlay of your old system I think drilled tanks with holes on the bottom while a risk, in reality is a small risk, is there a slim chance it MAY leak a little bit, absolutely. But it's not going to be a catastrophic failure, will you have to drain the tank to fix it, sure (Kindof sucks), but if you plan for that eventuality it can be accomplished relatively pain free. I will have a tub to fit all rock, fish and coral on standby if something happens. I have also planned a quick drain feature into the closed loop as well if the tank needs to be drained for whatever reason.My attempt at a CL system is kind of hard to explain, but I'll try.
Knowing I was doing a canopy played into the design. All of my returns/outlets, for both main and CL pumps, were run up and over the top. I had no return holes drilled in the tank. All plumbing runs up and down the space I left in my stand, against the wall. I brought the return up, split it, and the two returns were installed on the wall end, over the top, on either side of the overflow box.
My CL inlets were actually drilled under my overflow box, not quite half way down the wall side glass. They drained down to the pump and back up the wall side, where they too were split, and then ran across the aquarium sides. The return nozzles came out at the top of the viewing end panel. The way I designed my canopy completely hid all that pipe work. Hard to explain but the only thing you could see were the return outlet nozzle at the top of the tank, two on each end.
I used an AC pump for the CL. I think it was a Sicce model because it had to be quiet. So in theory, the CL worked and was in fact quiet. The problem was there were only two outlets from a pump that really wasn't strong enough. At that time, from what I could tell, the DC pumps were not really designed to run externally and most of the larger AC pumps were simply too noisy. So I was limited by not enough outlets and not enough flow from the start.
The system actually worked well given the limitations. The problem was when I started adding SPS, I just couldn't get enough flow out of it. That's when I plugged the CL inlets and installed the first Gyre on the overflow box. Remember I was still trying to avoid a pump on the viewable panel. Once the SPS took off, it was painfully obvious I had to install another pump (I went with another Gyre) on the view panel.
If doing it again, and I realize the risk/fear of having holes in the bottom of a tank, I think I would risk it. I would have several CL returns incorporated in to the rock work and it would be run on as many Ecotech Vectra or similar type pumps as needed. But I have no intentions or desire to upgrade in my current environment. So for now, I shall live with what I have.
Just for fun, this is a picture of the tank at about the two year mark. You can see I had already added the first Gyre on the overflow box and you can also see the return nozzles, on the viewable end, of the CL.
Agreed...and let's face it there is a risk with any box of water in our living rooms, regardless of where the holes are drilled. We've all read the threads that start with "...the tank blew out a seam...". So it could be catastrophic but it's part of the game. As you said, planning is your best game plan....I think drilled tanks with holes on the bottom while a risk, in reality is a small risk, is there a slim chance it MAY leak a little bit, absolutely. But it's not going to be a catastrophic failure...
One thing I didn't mention in my CL, which I truly loved and miss, is I had T-'d off one of my CL inlet pipes (between the inlet and the pump) and put a ball valve off the T, which then had a hose bib fitting on it. So I could hook up a hose, open the valve, and pump water right out of the house using the CL pump. It made water changes so easy with no buckets required....I have also planned a quick drain feature into the closed loop as well if the tank needs to be drained for whatever reason...
Me too!!!It's nice to see everyone's flow solutions for these tanks so far, hopefully more can post there setups
Absolutely, having a glass box full of water is a risk in and of itself and plan plan plan. Atleast when something does go sideways you will know or have an idea of what to do. This goes for any setup, standard, peninsula, closed loop etcAgreed...and let's face it there is a risk with any box of water in our living rooms, regardless of where the holes are drilled. We've all read the threads that start with "...the tank blew out a seam...". So it could be catastrophic but it's part of the game. As you said, planning is your best game plan.
Something that I had plumbed into my previous setup on my manifold. Made water changes a BREEZE! In my new setup I will incorporate the same feature but hard plumbed into a drain along with my AWC. I will also have a Y plumbed into my emergency drain with a slot for a filter sock at the end of the pipe. This will allow me to up the flow on the return and siphon my sand and rock to my heart's content. There will also be a 1/4" rodi line plumbed off the closed loop to so I can attach a 1/4" acrylic tube and stir up any detritus from the rocks once again for as long as I want to, no more Turkey basters for meOne thing I didn't mention in my CL, which I truly loved and miss, is I had T-'d off one of my CL inlet pipes (between the inlet and the pump) and put a ball valve off the T, which then had a hose bib fitting on it. So I could hook up a hose, open the valve, and pump water right out of the house using the CL pump. It made water changes so easy with no buckets required.
i haven't update my peninsula for almost 2 years. i decided to take a break from reefing since then. the tank iddle since with no corals, just fish and hair algae. recently have it fullly running again couple months ago. I'll post some pix later.Thanks...that's my hope.
Now let's here your P-Tank story as I know you have one.
how about some pictures of your set upI understand what @fragit is saying regarding secondary drain noise with a horizontal gyre on the glass side. I noticed the exact same thing, when the glass gyre would ramp up, it would create a wave effect on the water surface pushing more water into the overflow, making noise. I thought about a workaround being having double secondaries to handle variable flow quiter, but didn't pursue it.
Another issue @fragit metioned I had too, mounting them too high on the glass side to get more view would then suck water from the surface.
And I had the same problem as @mikeintoronto with sand gradually moving to the ends of the tank, and a "dead spot" in the middle of the tank.
Swapping the 4 gyres into vertical orientation solved all of that. It doesn't suck water from the top, doesn't cause wave surges to the overflow, doesn't block your view on the glass side, and there is way less effect on the sand. The sand up against the glass does get blown around a bit, but it is nice as it makes kind of a slope up to the middle of the tank. I am using a Hydros WaveEngine to synchronize all 4 and it works fantastic. This is the only real way I could find to get water completely from one end of the tank to the other.
I can't speak as to if it will be good enough for SPS or not (I am just about to start that journey), but my euphelia in the middle of the tank wave around like crazy. Below is kind of an illustration of the flow pattern using 4 vertical gyres. If anyone wants to try this I will be happy to post my WaveEngine settings.
Great comments. I actually ordered two new MP40's and am going to replace the Gyres, one on each end. To your point, I was thinking it may end up being a combination of flow patterns so I'm not getting rid of the Gyres. The Tunze is a great idea due to the "pointing" ability.I think about a closed loop all the time. The bottom of my tank is pvc so it would be easy to drill. But then there is the leak factor. I think the best solution for peninsula is multiple type flow generators. I forgot to mention my return line is a SeaSwirl. Because of aquascape challenges in peninsula tanks IMO a combo of gyre type/MP pump(s), and pumps like Tunze are best. Being able to point your flow in a direction in a peninsula is super important because of all the viewing angles, achieving good turn over and avoiding dead spots. With a Tunze you can place it in the top corner on one side and aim it diagonally to the opposite corner and get some really good cross flow combined with a unidirectional or gyre pump your looking at some good random flow that will fill the tank.