The real power of GHL profilux software

[Lasse]

There has been very much post claiming that GHL software is crap. I´m not one of those that think so - instead it is very well done. With help of both P3.x and P4 I have been able to solve very difficult problems with controlling different processes. In an earlier experiment with coral growth and acidification I succeeded to control pH with less than 0.02 swing. From 7.6 to 8.4 as wanted pH. This included a daily rise with 0.2 units during 12 hours - when back to the nominal value. In my own aquarium I have a 25 cm thick DSB. In the bottom of that DSB - it is an old undergravel filter with 4 tubes up to the surface. One of the tubes is the inlet for water that is pumped under the undergravel filter - creating a reversed flow up though the sand bed. In another tube I have a redox electrode - measuring the redox in the water below the DSB - and in another - there is a pH probe measure the pH in the poor water below the sand bed. There is also a tube for ethanol feed below the sandbed.

The general idea is to have an anaerobic environment below the sandbed (and up in the sandbed) feed water for the circulation and ethanol for denitrification and to uphold a low redox potential. Wanted is between -150 to -200 mV. But as soon as I pump surface water - from the refugium - i get in oxygen and the redox will rise (and need more ethanol in order to decrease afterwards) The trick is to balance these flows so it give you a disent flow of water through the sand bed but still a low redox potential (i.e anaerobic environment) I decided to use my redox probe as the main controller for this but I needed two different nominal values (one for the waterpump and one for the ethanol pump) The start of this whole adventure was to create a virtual copy of my physical redox probe below the sand bed. In my case Redox 5 is the physical and Redox 1 is my virtual probe. Redox 1 control my addition of ethanol (DOC) and redox 5 control my water pump

Here you can see that I have two different nominal values (I have tested out these nominal values for my set up - can be different in other set ups

Below you can see the real power - GHL has not only an on/off mode - it has more control modes. Here I have used pulse variable for my ethanol pump and pause variable for my water pump. For my ethanol pump - max pulse is 25 sec and a fixed pause on 30 minutes. This means that the controller analyze how large the deviation from the nominal value you are. with help of this it decide how long time (from 0 to 25 sec) the pump should run. After this - it wait for 30 minutes and after that do a new analyze and the new running time will be 0, shorter or longer than the last run - if the deviation is larger - run more, if it lower run les and if it is 0 or that the real value is (in this case when the run should decrease down to the nominal value) is lower than the nominal value + 1/2 hysteresis - it happens nothing - after 30 minutes a new analyze,

For my water pump - I have chose pause variable and max pause 45 minutes - fixed pulse 8 sec This means that the program analyse with help of the deviation from the nominal value how long the paus should be (between 0 and 45 minutes) - after that a fixed pulse of 8 sec, new analyze and new variable pause. In this case - the action should increase the redox potential - therefore if the redox hit the nominal value +1/2 hysteresis - nothing happens

OK - the controllers is fixed - now we have to knit one to a working outlet (switch) - In my case it is Switch 3 (for my pump below the DSB) Redox 5 control upwards (increase). This is a real outlet - I connect my water pump here (max 300 L/h but measured to 120 L/H (2000ml/minute))

My addition of ethanol is managed by a pump head of one of my doser 2. To have this to work we need to knit an virtual switch (no physical outlet) to redox 1 control downwards (decrease) I chose switch 60

For the ethanol we need to knit to a real doser head - in my case pump 12. Calibrate - and I run it slow (1). I knit it to switch channel 60 and switch on recording. Every time switch 60 is on - the pump will run as long as switch 60 is on.

In order to record how much water my water pump runs - I create a virtual dosing pump (one that´s not in physical use. P4 have 32 pumps available - I chose pump head 30. My water pump was clocked to 120 L/H -> 2000 ml/minute. You can´t use 2000 ml/minute as calibration amount - I chose to use 20 ml/minute and have to remember to always multiplicate the result with 100. Mark recording and chose switch index 3 (the water pump) Everytime this switch run - you will record the amount / 100

Now to the results I have got. During long time I was pleased with a switch of ± 30 mV and lower flow but all of this talk about crappy software get me a little bit upset and I decided to see what this crappy software can do- The result since yesterday

Since this morning - the deviation have been 1 mV !!!!!!!!!!!. Before it was 3 mV. I have use around 18 ml 8% ethanol (DOC) and pumped around 500 L aquarium water through the sand bed. My nitrate level is around 5 and I will see what will happens with this during the coming days. I have not change water for more than 4 years.

I will stress once again - people that talk about crappy GHL software - do not know what they are talking about. The software help you to program very complicated relationship in a way that I can hold a deviation of 1 mV in my poor water below the DSB. I know competitors that not even manage to read negative redox potential if you do not do a physical fix. .

The redox potential and the redox probe is useful according to manage anaerobic environment - not so useful in open water if you do not run ozone - by the way - the water that is pumped in below the DSB have this ORP profile

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Lucas815]

I think the bad comments about GHL are not about the "power" of the software, but rather it's simplicity for users.

I have a P4 and a doser, and absolutely love lots of stuff about GHL. I have no regrets.
... But I did have some issues with Wifi setup initially. Note that I've been working in IT for 15 years, and do that kind of stuff for a living.

I've come across lots of technical terms that I understand because I'm in IT, but most people would not, like USB com ports, IP addresses, NTP servers, etc...

Why do I have 4 different ways to connect to my P4? Why and when would I use one vs the others?

The vast majority of people do not, and should not have to understand any of these things.

The expectation in 2022 with electronic devices is that they "just work".

Customers want it to work like a microwave.
Step 1 : plug it.
Step 2 : there is no step 2, you're done.

Is that realistic? Probably not, but businesses should strive nontheless to work towards this goal.

One of the way to work towards simplicity is to "dumb down" the software, which is obviously not the GHL way.

There are other ways though, like setup wizards, reducing and automating steps, assuming values for the user.

For exemple, my P4 should detect automatically when I'm on my home network and connect to it locally. When I'm away from my home network, it should connect with myGHL. No user intervention should be required. I'm sure there are very specific conditions where that would be detrimental, but that would be very exceptional.

It's unfortunate that a middle ground between simplicity and "power" cannot seem to be reached with GHL software, as I think they would fly off the shelves otherwise.

Hydros absolutely have the right approach with their software.

 

[YOYOYOReefer]

Im currently playing with a 4 and have yet to get it to connect to my internet.
its probably going to get sent back if i cant get it going in a day or 2 without any more issues.

same reason i returned the hydros.

 

[Scdell]

I think the bad comments about GHL are not about the "power" of the software, but rather it's simplicity for users.

I have a P4 and a doser, and absolutely love lots of stuff about GHL. I have no regrets.
... But I did have some issues with Wifi setup initially. Note that I've been working in IT for 15 years, and do that kind of stuff for a living.

I've come across lots of technical terms that I understand because I'm in IT, but most people would not, like USB com ports, IP addresses, NTP servers, etc...

Why do I have 4 different ways to connect to my P4? Why and when would I use one vs the others?

The vast majority of people do not, and should not have to understand any of these things.

The expectation in 2022 with electronic devices is that they "just work".

Customers want it to work like a microwave.
Step 1 : plug it.
Step 2 : there is no step 2, you're done.

Is that realistic? Probably not, but businesses should strive nontheless to work towards this goal.

One of the way to work towards simplicity is to "dumb down" the software, which is obviously not the GHL way.

There are other ways though, like setup wizards, reducing and automating steps, assuming values for the user.

For exemple, my P4 should detect automatically when I'm on my home network and connect to it locally. When I'm away from my home network, it should connect with myGHL. No user intervention should be required. I'm sure there are very specific conditions where that would be detrimental, but that would be very exceptional.

It's unfortunate that a middle ground between simplicity and "power" cannot seem to be reached with GHL software, as I think they would fly off the shelves otherwise.

Hydros absolutely have the right approach with their software.

Simple information icons by items to explain what something does would work wonders.

 

[*Ruffian*]

I went with the GHL eco system including the Mitras lights. The only problem I have had with setup is the USB Driver on newer computers. I have an old computer I use for firmware updates.

The equipment is rock solid and once programmed is very reliable. My goal is to automate as much of the aquarium as possible. So far, everything I have attempted has been pretty straight forward and documented.

Whether GHL or Apex, you will need to invest time to understand how it works. There are several people here that will help you through any issue, especially Lassee. I am very satisfied with the equipment and just waiting on my ION Director.

Steve

 

[FishyFishFish]

Counter example. I connect to my KHD via GHL connect. I’ve now got it so that it connects every time from my iPhone (which unfortunately can’t be said for GCC).

However, after I make one or 2 changes, then the app freezes and the only way to get it to work again is to close the app and open it again.

I’m not doubting the programmability of it, but it is frustrating to use.

I see you still haven’t got over your patronizing tone where you state that people that don’t agree with you ‘don’t know what they’re talking about’.

 

[IKD]

I guess in Europe it’s not required to indicate
“This message paid for by GHL”

j/k

 

[Lasse]

I guess in Europe it’s not required to indicate
“This message paid for by GHL”

j/k

Its normal for me to do that - if it is that way. In this case - it is not that way - I´m not paid by GHL in one or another way. Have not any connection with them more than I have buy and used their products since 2009.

Customers want it to work like a microwave.
Step 1 : plug it.
Step 2 : there is no step 2, you're done.

And if the user does not know - do not use metal containers in the microwave or can´t understand the delay function (hence an empty microwave starts in the middle of the night) - thats means that you are probably done with both the microwave and your house All things have an learning curve and if you are handling a life support systems - you need to know what you are doing both from a biological and technical point of view.

Why do I have 4 different ways to connect to my P4? Why and when would I use one vs the others?

Its one of the best things with GHL - it gives you alternatives, I want to control things by myself - especially when it comes to manage a life supporting system. I do not want to be limited by solutions defined by others more than necessary.

don’t agree with you ‘don’t know what they’re talking about’.

Its a fact - not an opinion. I´m talking about the software - you are complaining about the interface between humans and software.

Simple information icons by items to explain what something does would work wonders.

There is ton of information about how to use these P4 and other models. Sticky in this forum is a lot of how to do videos and there is a lot of documents on the official website. Here, here and here



Sincerely Lasse

 

[FishyFishFish]

There you go, making up your own facts again.

 

[Member No 1]

@Lasse Don't waste your time. Trying to explain anything to this group is like trying to nail Jell-O to a tree!

 

[FishyFishFish]

@Lasse Don't waste your time. Trying to explain anything to this group is like trying to nail Jell-O to a tree!

I would rather do that than continue to read this thread (or anything else from @Lasse). I’m fact, I’m going to go out and get some now.

 

[Lasse]

@Lasse Don't waste your time. Trying to explain anything to this group is like trying to nail Jell-O to a tree!

Yes I know - but if you have enough of jell-O - you will drown the tree

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Lasse]

I would rather do that than continue to read this thread (or anything else from @Lasse). I’m fact, I’m going to go out and get some now.

Your welcome

By the way - its a fact (if I believe you) that the GHL WiFi works bad in your network/phone but it is an opinion that it because of crap software in your GHL devices. You have not shown that this is the case. If I remember right - In another thread you complain that your hydros lost the wifi connection but it did not bother you in that case.

Sincerely Lasse

 

[FishyFishFish]

Final post here before pop out for the Jell-o (once I find out what that is) and then I’m done. Yes, my Hydros power bar drops off a few times a day but it appears that happens to a lot of people. I am convinced (although I can never be 100% sure) that is a Hydros problem and nothing to do with my network. I can always connect to the brain and the app doesn’t crash.

As for GHL, GCC is still very patchy to connect (maybe connects 30% of the time) and the GHL connect app on my iPhone crashes every single time I use it. I have had problems getting every single one of my 5 GHL devices connected to the network.

They might have best programming in the world (I would discuss this point but I would never say that someone who has this opinion is wrong) but if I’m spending all day just trying to connect, then I’m not going to get the best out of it. I’m still thinking of switching my Hydros back to GHL, but I wouldn’t say that GHL doesn’t have its problems or that the software is without faults.

 

[IKD]

Its normal for me to do that - if it is that way. In this case - it is not that way - I´m not paid by GHL in one or another way. Have not any connection with them more than I have buy and used their products since 2009.



And if the user does not know - do not use metal containers in the microwave or can´t understand the delay function (hence an empty microwave starts in the middle of the night) - thats means that you are probably done with both the microwave and your house All things have an learning curve and if you are handling a life support systems - you need to know what you are doing both from a biological and technical point of view.


Its one of the best things with GHL - it gives you alternatives, I want to control things by myself - especially when it comes to manage a life supporting system. I do not want to be limited by solutions defined by others more than necessary.

Its a fact - not an opinion. I´m talking about the software - you are complaining about the interface between humans and software.



There is ton of information about how to use these P4 and other models. Sticky in this forum is a lot of how to do videos and there is a lot of documents on the official website. Here, here and here



Sincerely Lasse

My comment was only in jest (hence the j/k). That said, I would say that you have been an advocate of GHL (we’re you a beta tester for IOND?) and if I owned GHL products I would probably go to you first for help based on your knowledge of the products.

 

[Scdell]

There is ton of information about how to use these P4 and other models. Sticky in this forum is a lot of how to do videos and there is a lot of documents on the official website. Here, here and here

This is true...... But why should one have to go looking for info when they are in the middle of setting things up? It makes one lose focus on what they are trying to do when a simple information icon would do that? That just makes things frustrating.

 

[Lasse]

(we’re you a beta tester for IOND?)

Nope - i was not - I´m total independent from GHL - therefore i can (in my eyes) advocate for them if I think their products are OK. There is up a downs with their products (like from all manufactures) and all their products have pros an cones, But when coming to their software (with software I mean the programming from hardware language to a language that can be understood by humans) - its outstanding for a device that cost around $ 540 and are constructed in order to control a life supporting system. To write crappy software about this - still shows that the writer not knows what he/she are talking about.

The last connection - from the machine to humans is the user interface - and P4 give you at least 5 interfaces - the menu driven interface on the device, GCC, internal web interface (local connection), Through a web browser to the cloud (myGHL) and through apps connected either locally or through the cloud. When I home and do changes - i use GCC, in order to monitor whats happen - I use the internal interface through a browser at home and through myGHL when I´m outside home but can access a computer. If can´t access a computer - I use the app in my cell phone. Remember - all these interfaces and cloud storage is free of charge. GCC is as close as possible to many professional interfaces for automation - and I know what these cost - both to by and have a license running

About the interfaces - you can have different opinions - as an example - I do not like the apps - but that´s not enough for me to write in thread after thread about crappy software, not even crappy interface

My comment was only in jest (hence the j/k). That said

I´m sorry - i did not get that - I´m not a native english reader (or writer and definitely not speaker) - I did not understand the meaning of j/k - my bad

This is true...... But why should one have to go looking for info when they are in the middle of setting things up? It makes one lose focus on what they are trying to do when a simple information icon would do that? That just makes things frustrating.

I do not know but if I set up something that I not even have seen on a postcard before - I read the manuals first - before even the start to set up. Thing become more complicated nowadays with all electronics - I can´t do the way my father always did - read the manual first when things not work at all. When I set up the ion director the other day - I read for at least a hour before I start the set up process

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Scdell]

I liken GHL software to being a step above the old DOS programming.
One has to almost learn a new language when using it.
On top of that is GHL's omnipotence that their stuff is the best and everyone needs to learn to do it their way.
I'm about 3 years into a P4. Mitras LX'7's and Light bars. I have the basics down for the most part.
It's just sooooo challenging to get into it further.
There's so much more it's capable of, but also frustrating.
It takes hours or days and constant searching to figure things out.
I've read the manuals.

 

[JoeinLA]

im not sure if I’ve come across a thread that complained about the power of capabilities of the software - other than it’s power in giving its users headaches. GHL software is an absolute nightmare of a user experience.

To the GHL apologists who refuse to accept that reality, yes, you’re better, smarter, cooler, more handsome, and more beautiful than the rest of us. ‘Grats.

 

[Member No 1]

yes, you’re better, smarter, cooler, more handsome, and more beautiful than the rest of us. ‘Grats.

Finally the recognition I deserve!