Discussion in 'TL Reefs' started by TL Reefs, Sep 16, 2017.

The significance of reef tank lighting; a semi-scientific documentary.

With the constant debates about different lights and which is better, I figured I'd share a recent experience. Many people believe lighting is...
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  1. Tariq

    Tariq Member

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    A scientific publication does not start on its own. Keen observation and documentation of a unique pattern leads to a scientific study.

    I am glad TL Reefs shared his observation with follow ups and pictures. I don't think everyone here will run out and replace their existing lights with the Hydras but people considering the Hydras might feel more confident with their decision.

    Also remember, R2R is the friendliest site on the hobby. :)
     

  2. Vaughn17

    Vaughn17 Well-Known Member

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    Not science, sorry. He shared his experience, which may prove beneficial to others and is a good thing (and I'm not knocking the post), just don't call it science, please.
     
  3. ukdreamer

    ukdreamer New Member

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    It rather worries me when folk ask "What settings did you use" in situation like this. There absolutely is no such thing as a 'One size fits all' light setting out there that would bestow instant success on all who new it. The setting TL Reefs used on that particular type, size, shape and depth of tank, at that time, with the corals he had, the substrate and the million and one other possible variables make that light setting not exactly totally irrelevant....but not vital knowledge either.
     
  4. DSC reef

    DSC reef Coral wasted R2R Supporter Reef Squad R2R Excellence Award Reef Tank 365 Build Thread Contributor

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    What a joke. I'm surprised your not accusing him of "scaring people in to hydra's" lol. He's contributed more than you have...... kudos TL reefs, I enjoyed your write up. Thanks for taking your time to explain what you witnessed on a tank you've cared for over a year. @Bouncingsoul39, since you accuse BRS of scaring people in radions then bash this post about science then why don't you Grace us all with your knowledge and test some led lights? You know, just speaking plainly
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2017
  5. A. grandis

    A. grandis Valuable Member

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    I do not like the growth under LEDs at all, therefore I prefer T5s/MHs over any LEDs.

    BUT I have to say how much I liked that article. Is is really the best gift someone can give to these newbies or any people using LEDs. That is true to all types of light over any reef tank, though. The only reason the author had to actually write all that is because of the huge number of choices to combine spectrum/intensity we have with most LED fixtures.
    Very good article!
    Hope people will follow the suggestions from that author and stop burning their corals with multiple times adjusting LEDs!
    When I had my own LED fixtures over my old 125gal. I didn't loose any polyp at all, but didn't like the shapes, colors and growth compared to my T5s.
    Thanks for sharing!!
    Grandis.
     
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  6. ritter6788

    ritter6788 Coral Fraud Private Eye Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter Reef Spotlight Award Photo of the Month Award R2R Excellence Award Partner Member 2018

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    Don't hold back. Tell us how you really feel.
     
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  7. A. grandis

    A. grandis Valuable Member

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    You guys...
    Tell me what you really mean.
    Grandis.
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2017
  8. Eric Tang

    Eric Tang Active Member

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    this is a good exercise and I say I like the post because it is easy to understand for any level of hobbyists. It is scientific enough as it was kind of a "controlled" exercise because the only thing that was changed was the light and nothing else. With photos showing the before and after is great! Sometimes putting things in simple terms is better than being too "scientific"

    Great post!
     
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  9. jduong916

    jduong916 Active Member

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    Is this whole argument over the title? If it was just called "The Significance of Reef Tank Lighting" I bet that would unbunch everyone's panties. I don't think TL Reef is a scientist, but is it that important. It's just an article on his experience with a Hydra. So what if he correctly or incorrectly titled it a "Semi-Scientific Documentary"? Is that really so important it needs to be debated. This article isn't in a scientific journal, It's on a reef tank FORUM. So take a step back and end enjoy the experience TL Reef is sharing. Don't bunch up them panties over things that don't matter. And Please, do not worry, the scientific community is not losing any sleep over this article lol.
     
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  10. chipmunkofdoom2

    chipmunkofdoom2 Always Making Something R2R Supporter Reef Squad R2R Excellence Award Article Contributor

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    For the sake of being accurate, the BRS videos are not scientific at all. The methods are loosely described, but not shared verbatim (read the abstract, intro and method sections of any peer-reviewed scientific literature to see the detail that most scientific studies provide). The results are summarized and the raw data are not released (again, read the results section of any scientific study to see how much detail the researchers typically provide). The results are not published and they are not peer-reviewed, so there is no way for peers in academia or industry to replicate their setup and reproduce their data, which is one of the most important parts of the scientific process.

    To be clear, I really enjoy the BRS videos and gain a lot of insight from them. I believe they really improve reefing and they're doing a fantastic service to the hobby. The BRS team appears to be methodical and attempts to control for variables to an extent, which is why these videos have value. But this is not the same as an academic or scientific study.

    To your point about Mythbusters, no, that's not technically scientific either. But they do at least attempt to discuss the physics or facts behind the their findings. For the most part, BRS does not do this in their videos. They share their results, how they obtained them, and their best guess (which is pretty good, most of the time) as to why they got the results they did... but that's not scientific. It's documented trial and error. For a topic like organic carbon dosing, for example, BRS may state that adding X ml of vodka per gallon per day reduced their nitrates from Y to Z. But they don't describe the bacteria responsible, nor do they detail their lifecycle, their reproduction rate, their nutrient consumption, or anything else related to what caused the actual reduction in nutrients. It's not the organic carbon that reduced the nutrients, it's the bacteria.. but there's little discussion about those bacteria and lots of discussion about what type of organic carbon to use, or how much and how often.

    To be fair, nobody really knows exactly what goes on when we dose organic carbon to a reef aquarium, and it's an unfair burden to ask BRS to unravel that for us. It's just an example. My point is that something doesn't necessarily need to be scientific to be useful to the hobby. If the process is detailed and the results are predictable, that's useful. BRS takes it one step further and does this with cutting edge reefing topics, which is VERY useful and of great value to the hobby. Conversely, however, just because something is accurate and useful to the hobby does not mean it's scientific. It is more closely related to a standard operating procedure than it is to a scientific study.
     
  11. Rakie

    Rakie Federal Coral Reserve R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Reef Tank 365 Build Thread Contributor

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    My take is nobody here should be surprised, shocked, or enlightened. But we should all be reminded that there are differences in quality of gear, often reflected by price point.

    My take is; You get what you pay for.

    Others make take it as; Maybe that upgrade is worth it...

    And also that @TL Reefs hates science (jk, lol)
     
  12. Vaughn17

    Vaughn17 Well-Known Member

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    LOL.
     
  13. XNavyDiver

    XNavyDiver Insightful answer loading... please wait. R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Build Thread Contributor

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    Speaking for the noob crowd, I have to admit my head spins when the subject of lighting comes up. I have no clue as to where my radions are best set at as far as percentage of channels and intensity. What I want when looking at my channel adjuster for my radions on Fusion is a "sweet zone" for each channel based off the dimensions of my tank. There is no such thing of course so I must make adjustment by guessing. It's like playing darts blindfolded. So far I've yet to even hit the board as NOTHING has ever grown in my tank from day one. And I mean nothing. I've got a ton of pictures of new frags on my phone that is like looking at the obituaries. They say stability is the key....set your lights and do nothing. Others say experiment and find out what works. Both approaches I've tried over the months and both approaches lead to the same place for me. Nowhere. Frustration has set in...deep.
     
  14. nickman

    nickman Member

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    I liked BouncingSoul39's criticism almost as much as I liked TL Reef's response to it. He made no claims as to the scientific rigor of the following text, his title just got certain readers hopes up a little too high.

    I am a very literal person and a scientist by schooling so I did cringe a bit at the use of the word "science" in the title of the article but to be fair TL did say "semi-scientific". The only variable in the the "experiment" was the light (nevermind the sample size of 1) but the results were noticeable. This does suggest that the light was the main reason for the improvement in the "happiness" of the corals was the light. Again, very semi-scientific.

    That being said, I think that no matter how scientific or how scientifically or statistically insignificant any one hobbyist's experience is we can all learn a little from them sharing it. This is a public forum after all and not a peer-reviewed journal.

    Keep on reefin on, everyone!
     
  15. azbigjohn

    azbigjohn Well-Known Member R2R Supporter Build Thread Contributor

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    I enjoyed reading the write up. I think the pictures are an excellent demonstration of what a change can do to any tank.

    I certainly appreciate the time putting the pictures together, and taking the time to document them. I know lighting is always a topic of discussion. Eben once you decide on LEDs, there are long discussions about which LEDs to use, and what settings.

    Thanks, TL Reefs, for the time to document what you found.
     
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  16. EleMental

    EleMental Member

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    Wow! I have a degree in bio with a minor in chem. I mix compounded and IV medications for a living...Im familiar with science. I really didn't feel any need to attack this thread because of how the heading was worded. It was fun to see the difference in coral growth and I enjoyed it. Thank you for sharing.
     
  17. Bouncingsoul39

    Bouncingsoul39 Well-Known Member

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    It's funny you guys are still bashing me for my post and pointing out how wrong I am. Who cares, seriously. This is a site for newbs, by newbs and I can tell from the comments of some of you still don't even understand (@Rakie mentions quality, has nothing to do with quality) why the OP achieved the results he did. Whatever, this is the type of thing that gets posted around here and it's accepted as awesome so I will just learn to ignore it and keep my comments to myself. @DSC reef I've got you on ignore Bro. Ignore works great for not seeing posts by people you don't agree with. Try it!
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2017
  18. DSC reef

    DSC reef Coral wasted R2R Supporter Reef Squad R2R Excellence Award Reef Tank 365 Build Thread Contributor

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    Feel free to leave this site of newbs, lol. We just can't bask in your greatness and knowledge bouncing soul. lol. All you do is complain about others who post on here, call people out like they have no knowledge and then get teary eyed when people give it back to you.
     
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  19. Rakie

    Rakie Federal Coral Reserve R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Reef Tank 365 Build Thread Contributor

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    He may not have said it has to do with quality, but comparing an AI light to some Marineland light, quality is definitely a factor.

    Also, nobody cares -- why do you think people are bashing you? Why do you think people care so much about you? I haven't seen anyone really mention you outside of the initial post.
     
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  20. A. grandis

    A. grandis Valuable Member

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    I say you go get some T5s please and replace now.
    Or... you will need to get involved with the LED people to really learn what they have to tell you.
    Good luck, my friend.
    But it is possible, because if they can do with the LEDs, you should be able to.
    I like my T5s!
    Sorry guys, I couldn't resist :D.
    Grandis.
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2017
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