The worst paradigm to hit the hobby and more specifically the SPS world

[hart24601]

I think the biggest problem isn’t low nutrients, it’s that we as a hobby like to take one item out and fixate on it vs the overall system. Similar to lighting and bleaching, how often do you hear flow in that conversation but it’s absolutely related.

Here the missing item is the total input. Low nutrients are still my preferred goal, but only is there is a large influx and out flux- aka lots of feeding and heavy export. Yes low nutrients in a tank that has extremely low input is bad, seems common sense but have that extra detail isn’t how we like, overall in the hobby, to convey information. We want to shoot for hard numbers, not realize the greater context.

My old system. 0ppb phosphate, only hint of detectable nitrate color with salifert. And 8x small auto feeding a day plus manual feed. If phosphate even creeped to 4ppb or so some acros turned brown, I could easily tell the water levels by the color. Now this doesn’t happen with all acros. Some live just fine elevated, but it doesn’t mean it’s preferred or acceptable across all species.

 

[Charlie’s Frags]

I think the biggest problem isn’t low nutrients, it’s that we as a hobby like to take one item out and fixate on it vs the overall system. Similar to lighting and bleaching, how often do you hear flow in that conversation but it’s absolutely related.

Here the missing item is the total input. Low nutrients are still my preferred goal, but only is there is a large influx and out flux- aka lots of feeding and heavy export. Yes low nutrients in a tank that has extremely low input is bad, seems common sense but have that extra detail isn’t how we like, overall in the hobby, to convey information. We want to shoot for hard numbers, not realize the greater context.

Exactly.

 

[Griev]

This 100% happened to me. I ran my bare bottom too clean and almost lost all my SPS.

What I’ve noticed is I judge by my glass now, and testing numbers correspond. I’ve found that everything in my tank seems to look and grow best with around .25 no3 and ~.1 po4. At this level I have to clean the film algae off about twice a week. Any more than that I know my numbers have crept up so I’ll feed a bit less, any less than that and I’ll feed a bit more.

Same method I've switched too as well. If I'm not cleaning the glass at least twice a week I do extra feeding.

 

[Charlie’s Frags]

I think what the OP is trying to say, and I apologize if I’m wrong, that it’s the preaching that we must keep n/p low to ultra low in order to keep sps, which simply isn’t true. Maybe they will have better color (I’ll challenge anyone on that) or better growth, but elevated (not crazy high) residual n/p will not crash a tank. So when newbies get into sps and drop 1k on a bunch of new frags during a live sale, they break out the ultra low P checker and start starving the tank chasing numbers that are not necessary for survival. Gfo reactors, nopox, denitratros, ats, etc all with limited feedings bc they’re afraid of po4 going above 0.03. And when the acros look dried out and brown (starved) they are led to believe it’s the 0.05 po4 that caused it.

I’m never going to recommend @jda or @Pedoconfuego or @danariddle to elevate their nutrients bc they are not newbies and they know what they’re doing.

I myself, along with Red Sea, believe sps frags have a better survival rate with at least 0.08-0.12 po4. Most of the death threads involve a bunch of frags with ultra low to zero n/p with an alk of 9-11 bc that’s what BRS recommends and they don’t understand why all of their frags are dying. We need to have a different standard for newbies with sps frags.

Shouldn’t survival be more important than the best color or growth?

 

[jda]

Who really preaches this? This is not 2000 and the ZeoVit people are abundant on the board. Is this mostly a strawman?

Even in the olden days, people only really ever said to be "clear" on a test kit knowing that clear was not anywhere near zero or else there would be no growth of anything. Most of the good hobbyists told people NOT to use media or chemicals when they were clear unless they were using a detailed plan (like Zeo at the time).

I only really suggest for people to do it if they want to the ultimate level of keeping acropora... otherwise, do what works. You know, threads where people ask about ultimate growth and stuff...

I totally believe that there is more at work here than just residual levels. Lighting and biodiversity play role too in some ways that we do not fully understand. A few folks are kinda working on some of these intertwined things, but results are not yet ready.

Survival is the key. However, once survival is no issue, then the best color and growth with the most species is the next step.

 

[h2so4hurts]

There are a lot of ways to be successful in this hobby. Making your tank params look a lot like the ocean is a good start though

 

[sHockz]

There are a lot of ways to be successful in this hobby. Making your tank params look a lot like the ocean is a good start though

Next time I'm at the beach, I'm collecting a water sample. I never thought about testing ocean water, but now I'm gonna.

 

[Joedubyk]

Im just going by the anecdotal evidence I see on the board. It's every day "My corals are pale and some dying. My params are 0, 0". I have 3 fish and am running GFO. This is another can of worms, but I actually think HIGH 15-25 nitrate gets better colors in acros. Theres a lot of experts posting that they run low-ish...but yeah, you guys are already feeding the **** out of your tank with heavy feed and heavy export..

 

[xiaoxiy]

Next time I'm at the beach, I'm collecting a water sample. I never thought about testing ocean water, but now I'm gonna.

You should collect water samples from further out. Beaches and water sources closer to land tend to have increased nutrients and misc from runoffs.

 

[Perry]

I believe alk has been mentioned above, but should probably garner more attention in relation to nutrient levels.

 

[jda]

Here are ocean parameters in this article by Dr. RHF, along with his recommendations.

Optimal Parameters for a Coral Reef Aquarium: By Randy Holmes-Farley

[note: edited on 5/29/2022 to update the nitrate and phosphate sections with higher recommended levels.] One of the main roles of an aquarist with a coral reef aquarium is to ensure that the conditions are right for their tank inhabitants. There are many different attributes of the aquarium...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[Charlie’s Frags]

Here are ocean parameters in this article by Dr. RHF, along with his recommendations.

Optimal Parameters for a Coral Reef Aquarium: By Randy Holmes-Farley

[note: edited on 5/29/2022 to update the nitrate and phosphate sections with higher recommended levels.] One of the main roles of an aquarist with a coral reef aquarium is to ensure that the conditions are right for their tank inhabitants. There are many different attributes of the aquarium...

www.reef2reef.com

What does his tank look like?

 

[Charlie’s Frags]

What does his tank look like?

I know what this guys tanks look like

Phosphate Ramblings

Below is a short write up that I have sent to countless friends and customers of mine who are experiencing some kind of issue and feel that it’s related in some way to phosphate levels. I have decided not to have my faithful grammar pro “fix” it, as it's more of a raw outpouring than any sort...

battlecorals.com

 

[Chrisnugent942]

So I have a 40g with no protein skimmer thats about 2 months old with two clowns. My no3 stays around 10 and ammonia stays at 0. If i was to pick up a cheap softie would it thrive in a tank with those nutrients?

 

[Charlie’s Frags]

So I have a 40g with no protein skimmer thats about 2 months old with two clowns. My no3 stays around 10 and ammonia stays at 0. If i was to pick up a cheap softie would it thrive in a tank with those nutrients?

This is the sps forum

 

[X-37B]

My po4 .02-.06, most of the time .02.
No3 1-3 most of the time its 1ish.
Alk 7-7.3
A balance of fish and feeding keeps it this way.
BB good cleanup crew and a good skimmer too.
Its the whole package that makes it work.
I clean my glass with a flipper every 2-3 days to remove the green film.
Good flow as no detrius settles anymore with bigger powerheads.
Also a big believer of live rock. Went 50/50 this time but my live rock was 2.5 years old from my nano system.

 

[Charlie’s Frags]

This is turning into a low vs elevated n/p debate, which I don’t believe was the OPs objective. Any successful sps keeper knows there are amazing tanks with zero residual n/p, but the question is, “is this the most reliable way to keep sps alive?”

 

[MurphyJ]

And the science say

Optical Feedback Loop Involving Dinoflagellate Symbiont and Scleractinian Host Drives Colorful Coral Bleaching

Coral bleaching, caused by the loss of brownish-colored dinoflagellate photosymbionts from the host tissue of reef-building corals, is a major threat …

www.sciencedirect.com

I suppose that this article can be a game changer for some - but not for me.

Sincerely Lasse

Very interesting read. thank you for sharing.

 

[tehmadreefer]

Next time I'm at the beach, I'm collecting a water sample. I never thought about testing ocean water, but now I'm gonna.

Are there corals where the beach is? If not, then it isn’t the same.

 

[sawdonkey]

Do you keep acros?