The worst paradigm to hit the hobby and more specifically the SPS world

[Charlie’s Frags]

Gorgeous tank. Lots of ppl chime in with no proof or current proof that they even have acros. Thanks for the pics. How long have you had those colonies?

 

[tehmadreefer]

We also have to consider who is posting all the problem threads. Typically it’s newbies throwing in acros after their tank might/might not have cycled, using dry rock, dosing 2 part with 2 frags and using vibrant/gfo to get rid of algae, while their alk is over 10 and then wonder why everything is dying, but hey their po4 is low, lol

 

[sawdonkey]

This is turning into a low vs elevated n/p debate, which I don’t believe was the OPs objective. Any successful sps keeper knows there are amazing tanks with zero residual n/p, but the question is, “is this the most reliable way to keep sps alive?”

I’ve killed more acros due to high PO4 than the other way around. Someone mentioned low nutrients causing dinos above. How often do we see Dino outbreaks on mature tanks? It seems like almost never?

I don’t really see people saying to target zero these days (but did a lot in 2013-ish). I do aim for right around zero, but I feed big, have big fish, run biopellets and skim big. Big in-big out! I will also acknowledge that this is a fine line to walk, but it’s where my coral look best. But yeah, if you don’t want to kill your acros....shoot for .1 and 20....but for me, that’s not where my corals look good/best

Gorgeous tank. Lots of ppl chime in with no proof or current proof that they even have acros. Thanks for the pics. How long have you had those colonies?

My neighbor had a house fire in 2017 and ruined my condo/tank. The pics above are my current tank I’ve been growing since mid 2018. This tank runs at about 10 NO3 and .1 PO4. I’d like both lower to get better coral color (can’t get vivids rainbow to color up)

This is my old tank ruined by the fire. It almost always ran 0/0 and my colors were better.

 

[Charlie’s Frags]

I’ve killed more acros due to high PO4 than the other way around. Someone mentioned low nutrients causing dinos above. How often do we see Dino outbreaks on mature tanks? It seems like almost never?

I don’t really see people saying to target zero these days (but did a lot in 2013-ish). I do aim for right around zero, but I feed big, have big fish, run biopellets and skim big. Big in-big out! I will also acknowledge that this is a fine line to walk, but it’s where my coral look best. But yeah, if you don’t want to kill your acros....shoot for .1 and 20....but for me, that’s not where my corals look good/best



My neighbor had a house fire in 2017 and ruined my condo/tank. The pics above are my current tank I’ve been growing since mid 2018. This tank runs at about 10 NO3 and .1 PO4. I’d like both lower to get better coral color (can’t get vivids rainbow to color up)

This is my old tank ruined by the fire. It almost always ran 0/0 and my colors were better.

Awesome tank. All you need now is a shark

 

[tnc112105]

And sometimes you can feed until your hearts' content and the nutrients still won't budge. I think most reefers understand that corals (not just SPS) need nutrients to survive, and that once we detect that there is a problem, begin taking the necessary steps to correct it. That being said, I think we all would prefer to raise nutrients naturally when possible, but this is not always successful in a timely enough fashion when corals are showing signs of stress.

When I noticed my corals paling, I tried for a month to get my nutrients up with additional feedings, addition of reef roids, reducing water changes, less aggressive skimming, etc, and over that month I got NO3 from 0 to 0.2 and PO4 just barely above 0. Sometimes "manipulating" is necessary.

 

[92Miata]

No.

For the vast majority of reefers - lower nutrients are a good thing.

Yes, there are people who are too low - but they're the exception, not the norm. Watch your corals.

 

[pasquale petrovia]

DINOS are the worse thing I have dealt with in 34 years. I am finally almost out of the woods. Blackouts, peroxide, heating up tank, Scrubbing, skimming, not skimming, dirtying the tank, bacteria, carbon dosing. Giving me Hives just thinking about it

 

[Marc2952]

Worst thing ive ever done is trying to get the nutrients as low as possible, now im on this 4 month battle with dinos.

 

[Xero]

i've been called "old school" because i run my tanks all higher nutrients. I started out early on keeping NPS, it was going to be unavoidable to some extent.

I saw 2 recent videos showing that higher nutrient tanks can actually achieve more growth with less PAR, etc, etc.

 

[Marc2952]

DINOS are the worse thing I have dealt wit in 34 years. I am finally almost out of the woods. Blackouts, peroxide, heating up tank, Scrubbing, skimming, not skimming, dirtying the tank, bacteria, carbon dosing. Giving me Hives just thinking about it

Lol ive always been told that back in the fays that was not a thing now almost everyone i know thats in the hobby gets vietnam flashbacks when i mention dinos lol

 

[pasquale petrovia]

I shut down my tank that had live rock in it for about 25 years after my 18 year old majestic angel died. I started it back up with the same rock that was dry in storage a year and a half ago. It looked great for about a year and then came the DINOS. I am about 4 months into my battle. I can only run skimmer every 3 days or my nitrate disappears and I know they are waiting to come back. SPS dominate , but still in frag size pieces so QT was the only way to blackout 3 days. I hate those things my UV is helping though. I never had them or ever heard of them

 

[Da Ghost]

Agree - disagree. We (I) have always strived to keep low nutrients to avoid algae blooms and such, but when I started reefing (early 90's) we did not have nearly as much information, testing and ability to test and monitor our systems water quality the way we do now. I think old school reefers still follow the idea of wait a year for everything to settle in then see what you need to do- whereas some reefers today want insta coral/ insta reef/ insta success. So I am willing to go with marketing as a bigger factor. I have to admit that I did try zeovit for a year- then tore it down and stuck with what I know. While the pastel coral look was nice (different from what I was use to) I could tell visually my system was not in order, just never seemed to be thriving. Here we are now two years after Zeo and I am just now getting my nutrients to settle-in where I think they should be. I tested maybe a month ago to see Po4 still low .05-.06ish and Nitrites at 2-3ish. Now I will just observe the tank and see where it goes from there. Feed more here, add a fish there, reduce the skimmer a wee bit more and dial it in. The hard part is this all takes time. Not days, not weeks, but months.......sit back grab a beer and observe.

 

[GA_Reeferr]

how do you find and maintain that balance without starving corals or having major algae issues? How do you find the sweet spot?

I feel like it depends on what coral you are keeping. But don’t shoot for absolute zero as this starves the coral but don’t think that elevated n/p will help the coral that much. In my experience, the higher n/p aid my soft corals in being puffy and healthy looking.

 

[Piranhapat]

I think what is just important. We rely on tests that at times to be not accurate. Throwing a wrench in the water parameters readings.

 

[Shawn_epicurious]

I am really not qualified to speak to the intricacies of this whole “zero nutrients” thing. What little I do know about it is that some reefers think their livestock should only be consuming the nutrients they want the livestock to consume...

But, it does appear to defy logic... that’s kind of like throwing up my breakfast because I only want my lunch to effect my body... seems silly.

 

[JCOLE]

To add to my post above... It's why most hobbyists shouldn't be messing with carbon dosing and dosing of nitrogen and phosphorous. It becomes really difficult to balance and to control the bacterial balance that you throw off through manipulating nutrients.

+1. I had a fight with Dino's a little while back and I chose to start dosing Nitrate and Phosphate during that time. My dino's did clear up(I think this was related to other issues) but it seemed to throw the growth off for a couple of months.

@Ike why do you recommend against carbon dosing? I am curious to hear what you say as I currently dose 80ml of Vinegar to my ATO with Kalk. 80ml is on the low side for my tank and I use it to help the Kalk along with a little bump for my bacteria.

 

[aqua_code]

aptasia, red bugs, and copper resistant strains of velvet are the only things that are a concern to me. I still keep my nutrients low. Otherwise have a GHA problem quickly. Anyone with a nano knows this.

It's not worth adding the algae killing snake oil (unless maybe you're fighting bubble algae). Stresses out SPS. Dinos always go away for me but can take 6 months with UV on the recent strains I've seen.

 

[Iversonforever3]

After reading 4 pages of comments, I will say now I feel I have a little better grasp on Acros... I have 1 fuzzy Acro (2” tall at best) and with new sps frag in the tank (tank is about 9-10months old), and I am always trying to figure out why it seems to not have growth or color compared to other corals.

With the debate on low nutrients vs high export. It seems I’m going to up my feedings and test the tank more than bi-weekly to try some of all of your (R2R) inputs on possibly helping my new frag strive.
Thanks mates for all the new information I have gathered , I hope in a couple of months I’ll have something to show for my time in this thread lol

 

[JCOLE]

I think the big issue with this is how you run your dkh as well as nutrients. I don't think low nutrient systems are bad but you really should be running ALK around natural sea levels with low nutrients. Running high ALK with ULNS is asking for issues.

 

[MohrReefs]

This is the sps forum

So I have a 40g with no protein skimmer thats about 2 months old with two clowns. My no3 stays around 10 and ammonia stays at 0. If i was to pick up a cheap softie would it thrive in a tank with those nutrients?

You'll be fine to get some softies in there. They are probably most tolerant of parameter swings from your new tank.