The worst paradigm to hit the hobby and more specifically the SPS world

[Charlie’s Frags]

My mixed reef nano I bought from someone came in at 0.5ppm phosphate, I’ve brought it down to 0.12-0.19 (I’m not sure if my Hanna checker is not precise).

Can someone explain what happens when phosphates start to drift above 0.05-0.1 (which is what I see in most people’ s recommendations as not to go too far above or below this, but also to ensure good feeding of corals).

Who wants to take this one? I get tired of showing off my elevated po4 beauties

 

[Back where it all began]

Pardon my ignorance. In a “real ocean reef” do sps and softies etc coexist on the same reef structure? If they do, then I presume that they would all be exposed to the same ocean parameters that we monitor. If that’s the case, then it seems like something other than or parameters is making the real thing possible. Larger sea space, different biodiversity, etc. I also presume that there is significant types of algae that we define as pest algae.
Could it be that in our quest to raise challenging acros, sps that we are missing something more basic/complex than simple nutrient values?
I know I’m not nearly the first to suggest this, but it seems relevant to me.

 

[ahiggins]

I think the paradigm should be having nutrients without causing algae to grow
Most people over filter like crazy, especially new people who add a skimmer to the tank before it even has nutrients. Viscous cycle of “my nutrients bottomed out” do I need to turn off skimmer, take out chaeto, and all my reactors?!

 

[Rjmul]

You bring up another good point. Reguarly testing. Whether its weekly or bi weekly. Yes, most people are in tune with their tank. but it's always when something goes out of whack, you don't notice it, and by the time the corals show it, its far too late. if you jsut test, you nip things in the bud

I test something almost every day

 

[Rjmul]

Exactly!
Zero nutrients in a dead rock system is not the same as in a system teeming with micr o-life, which explains how some don't even need a skimmer, as the system has become a self sustaining eco-system. Again, in the past, most SPS gurus tried to go as low as possible, why? Because our rock was LIVE In this environment, you did not have to feed as often, the tank produced it's own food. I had a refugium with mysis teeming, I actually had my LFS growing them in one of their overflow boxes, unbeknown to them. I actually bought them from LFS to seed my fuge. Not that I didn't feed, but going a day or 2 without was no big deal. Have you ever seen how acros respond to stomatella snail spawns? They go nuts! Or, when your pods lay eggs on the glass, and acros put out feeding polyps when swiping glass? So my impression FWIW:
New systems or systems setup with dry rock, higher nutrients likely better.
Mature systems with tons of life, low nutrients likely to be acceptable, not better, just more capable of ULNS scenario.

im getting ready to start running zeobits sponge power in the hopes to boost my rock. Watching a lot of mike paletta videos and he mentions more then once that both his, and San jays tanks never took off starting with dry rock. I'm holding onto my 30 pounds for the rest of my life.

 

[Rjmul]

So I have a 40g with no protein skimmer thats about 2 months old with two clowns. My no3 stays around 10 and ammonia stays at 0. If i was to pick up a cheap softie would it thrive in a tank with those nutrients?

Yes. It should. Get a skimmer tho.

 

[tamanning]

For the longest time I wanted a zoa garden but could not keep them alive. I thought i had a parasite or a an odd critter that was eating them. turned out my tank was "to clean" I had my water tested at my lfs and was told to clean so in disbelief I drove across town and was told again to clean. I stepped up my feeding and now I can keep zoas and palies. so yes your tank can be to clean.

 

[Rjmul]

I think the worst thing to hit the hobby is the prices of nub frags

 

[Popkorn0407]

No. I keep n03 and po4 at 0 but i over feed fish and put alot of amino acid.

 

[Fishko]

My phos stays at .03 and nitrate 1ppm, but i feed pretty heavily, 35g, feed reef roids every other day. My birds nest has been really taking off growing new branches. Should i be concerned, im having a lot of trouble increasing nitrate and phos

 

[Fishko]

I test something almost every day

I love testing alk everyday

 

[Mark Novack]

Having seen the colors and health of corals in ultra low nutrient Zeovit aquariums I'm really not sure if it's the worst thing to touch the hobby. I'm leaning towards thinking that consistency is more important. My tank accumulates nitrates quickly and is not consistent. I do not keep any sensitive corals so they do alright, plus my fish are not reef safe. If I go back to an SPS with clams I'll do my best to stay under 5ppm which I consider a fine level. I have good knowledge but applying it is not so easy. So many variables it's hard to pinpoint the source of problems.
Mark

 

[jreece11]

Doh! .05 - .1

I’m at 1.0 phosphates and SPS still growing and looking great and for a minute I was like “there’s another guy with off the charts phosphates doing alright,” ha ha.

 

[MightyMO]

My mixed reef nano I bought from someone came in at 0.5ppm phosphate, I’ve brought it down to 0.12-0.19 (I’m not sure if my Hanna checker is not precise).

Can someone explain what happens when phosphates start to drift above 0.05-0.1 (which is what I see in most people’ s recommendations as not to go too far above or below this, but also to ensure good feeding of corals).

I do believe that certain types of nuisance algae start thriving...

 

[radiata]

The absolutely worst recent paradigm has been the switch from tank hoods to tanks without hoods.

With a tank hood...
- you don't need ugly netting to stop your fish from "carpet surfing"
- you don't need to listen to your spouse complain that the lighting is too intense in his/her room
- your children won't go blind looking at your lighting
- the ugliness of your lighting fixtures can't be seen by anyone
- you lose storage space for reef tools and foods
- your AFS (or equivalent) won't be just an ugly pimple on your setup
- you can manage heat diffusing air flow with a controlled fan
- you eliminate problems with having rimless tanks (like net/feeder mounting issues etc. )
- you have less water evaporation
- your overall installation doesn't look it was done on the cheap
- a matching hood/base cabinet has a more aesthetic appearance
- a proposed good looking hood/base cabinet is much easier to sell to your spouse
- overall, your setup won't look just plain butt ugly

 

[Reefasaurus X]

The absolutely worst recent paradigm has been the switch from tank hoods to tanks without hoods.

With a tank hood...
- you don't need ugly netting to stop your fish from "carpet surfing"
- you don't need to listen to your spouse complain that the lighting is too intense in his/her room
- your children won't go blind looking at your lighting
- the ugliness of your lighting fixtures can't be seen by anyone
- you lose storage space for reef tools and foods
- your AFS (or equivalent) won't be just an ugly pimple on your setup
- you can manage heat diffusing air flow with a controlled fan
- you eliminate problems with having rimless tanks (like net/feeder mounting issues etc. )
- you have less water evaporation
- your overall installation doesn't look it was done on the cheap
- a matching hood/base cabinet has a more aesthetic appearance
- a proposed good looking hood/base cabinet is much easier to sell to your spouse
- overall, your setup won't look just plain butt ugly

Yes! Yes!! I’m glad I’m not the only one. My first tank when I was 14 yrs old looked like a science experiment with equipment, wires, everything exposed. Since then I vowed my tanks would always look like art rather than the equipment/project look. Now at 53 yrs old, I’ve gone against the trend and stayed with a hood on my tank that matches the stand. I’ll never change as I love the clean look.

Regarding the reason for the thread.. low nutrients is not the worst paradigm. It’s all relative. All tanks are different. My mixed reef started 23 years ago with live rock. I’ve added a gazilion corals n frags over the years. I’ve seeded my tank with pod populations from various sources. I’ve always used natural seawater for water changes. All those factors add up to lots of biodiversity. My phosphate goes between 0 and .03. Nitrate runs 1-2. I feed a lot and skim a lot. LPS, SPS including acros are all happy campers.

 

[Reeferstin]

DINOS are the worse thing I have dealt with in 34 years. I am finally almost out of the woods. Blackouts, peroxide, heating up tank, Scrubbing, skimming, not skimming, dirtying the tank, bacteria, carbon dosing. Giving me Hives just thinking about it

Try giving Dino X a try it has been what saved my tank from a break down and restart , completely killed alll dinos for me in only 3 doses the bottle said to do 15 doses of 15ml on different days yes it came back slightly a few weeks later but has never come back to nearly what it was only 3 doses

 

[See Gee Sea]

I'm fighting a losing battle trying to increase nutrients and fighting dinos. I'm running my skimmer 6 hours/night and heavily feeding and the worlds tiniest water changes just to turn the sand bed and both my nitrates and phosphates are barely detectable. The guy at the LFS advised me not to add anymore corals until I raised it.

 

[BAUCE]

Lol ive always been told that back in the fays that was not a thing now almost everyone i know thats in the hobby gets vietnam flashbacks when i mention dinos lol

I’ve never dealt with Dino’s in my 15ish years in the hobby. How is this such a common problem these days?

 

[Marc2952]

I’ve never dealt with Dino’s in my 15ish years in the hobby. How is this such a common problem these days?

My guess is that tanks nowadays are going too "clean" and the fact that most people start with dry rock nowadays adds to the problem.