These lights are done for good....or are they?

[oldbob50]

Over time the question will not be answered by what is best for the coral but what is best for the planet. LED's will continue to improve in their ability to match the Halides and T5's performance at a much lower energy foot print. So the coral will be fine and being living creatures will adapt. The original light bulb, incandescent, is now, or will be shortly, a thing of the past and no longer available. Likewise, as LEDs improve they will take over because of controllability and lower power consumption. No matter what your experience or opinion is, all technologies will eventually get replaced by newer technologies. We no longer ride horses to work, run trains with steam and, in the near future, we will not be powering cars and trucks with internal combustion engines. Take a look at the Tesla Roadster or the Amazon fleet of electric trucks and you can see the future direction we will be going in. So for now, Halides and T5's have their place. If they are working for you, fine, but accept the fact that they will probably not be available 20 years from now. I'm a photographer that started with film in the 60's and I haven't shot on film since 2000 when I replaced my Nikon F4 with a DSLR. Do I miss film? Maybe a little but I can do so much more with digital. Give the LED technology a chance to develop and, like DLSR cameras, it will far exceed the abilities of the older lighting systems.

 

[BZOFIQ]

Over time the question will not be answered by what is best for the coral but what is best for the planet. LED's will continue to improve in their ability to match the Halides and T5's performance at a much lower energy foot print. So the coral will be fine and being living creatures will adapt. The original light bulb, incandescent, is now, or will be shortly, a thing of the past and no longer available. Likewise, as LEDs improve they will take over because of controllability and lower power consumption. No matter what your experience or opinion is, all technologies will eventually get replaced by newer technologies. We no longer ride horses to work, run trains with steam and, in the near future, we will not be powering cars and trucks with internal combustion engines. Take a look at the Tesla Roadster or the Amazon fleet of electric trucks and you can see the future direction we will be going in. So for now, Halides and T5's have their place. If they are working for you, fine, but accept the fact that they will probably not be available 20 years from now. I'm a photographer that started with film in the 60's and I haven't shot on film since 2000 when I replaced my Nikon F4 with a DSLR. Do I miss film? Maybe a little but I can do so much more with digital. Give the LED technology a chance to develop and, like DLSR cameras, it will far exceed the abilities of the older lighting systems.

The point you make is spot on and all of today's technologies will be archaic in time. The problem is when people tell you today that its LED or nothing, which is just clearly not the case - not yet at least. Many will use T5 and MH for years to come. Do I have anything against new tech, being an IT guy, absolutely not! But to shove something down my throat just so I conform to what marketeers will have you believe is fundamentally wrong. I don't foresee changing my hybrid T5 fixtures for about a decade, giving LED manufacturers time to figure it all out.

 

[JPergamo]

I will run halides until I literally cannot find them even used anymore

 

[Mayhem]

I don’t understand why T5s haven’t disappeared yet. They are wasteful since you need to replace them often (~6 mo) and are considered toxic waste. As for metal halides, large deep tanks or large public displays still need them as LEDs are not up to the task yet.
I’ve never used T5s. The frequent replacement costs and waste were an instant no-go for me. I’ve used MH until 2018 though. It was only after seeing tanks lit by Radions G4 that I decided to make the switch. My electrical bill went down and my tank is thriving under the G4s. Never going back. Why live in the past?

 

[BZOFIQ]

I don’t understand why T5s haven’t disappeared yet. They are wasteful since you need to replace them often (~6 mo) and are considered toxic waste...

I thought it was every 2 months.

Seriously, just watch this.

 

[Ratsinmyhead]

I’m sure most here have heard of planned obsolescence. From what I remember hearing, this was all started mostly in part because of the big light bulb companies at the time. The bulbs simply lasted too long. (Check out centennial bulb) Simple idea to up profit? Make it so that the lights MAY prematurely fail. Genius and evil at the same time. Point being is to never forget, companies, with very few exceptions, are in business to make money. What other incentive would there be to take the risk of losing everything when starting any said company.
Why could those early bulb companies not have been like Tobasco company? When looking for a way to sell more bottles or make more profit, someone simply suggested “why not just make the hole a little bigger?” So simple. But planned obsolescence also ties into I what I thought my parents told me about with keeping up with the Jones’s. People will always want the next biggest or best. Simple, very small changes in a product, can with the right advertising, have major impacts on any companies profits.
Sorry off topic and rambling.

 

[Stigigemla]

The aquarium industry is a very small part of the lighting industry. When the street lights, sport places and large commercial buildings leave the MH there will be no manufacturers of MH left. And Your manufacturer of MH will have no place to order their special spectrum MH. Leds are a lot cheeper today. The cost of maintenance is much lower too with a lifae of more than 10 years instead of 2. But it will take long time - T8 lighting was faced out in production about 10 years ago but replacement tubes are still sold. Now in the shops here in Sweden its hard to find room light without led.
But T5 replacement tubes will be around for at least 20 more Years. After that time there will be no production of T5 tubes.

If leds will be the only light tech available in the future. Probably not. Other materials will come. With oleds for instance its possible to make a wallpaper to light up a room and change colors - less than a millimeter thick. So maybe in a few years some people will have the whole ceiling as a light source. And still more is to wait for.

The development in leds have been a chase of higher efficiency but thats changing now. Bridgelux has a new series, Thrive with color rendition index of 97 - 98 instead of 80 as a usual Cree LED.

It has been a possibility of ordering leds with a special spectrum for a long time. I have done it for 7 years for the aquarium lights I produce. The possibility of making led lights with special spectrums are hugh. Leds are now so cheap so it is possible to make a light with full power output in any color with low extra cost.
The development in led lights for aquariums has not ended yet. The next I expect from the big companys is a light adjustable from red-blue refugium color to fresh water planted tanks over to marine and in the end all blue fluorecent light. All colors with full power possibility and fine adjustments.

 

[BurgerFish]

I'm T5 user. Never go back to led (I only use it as a supplement to T5).

 

[robi0543]

1. Have you ever used Metal Halide and T5 Lighting on a reef tank?
yes too all

2. Do you currently have a tank running MH or T5 lights?
Actually just changed back to mh/t5 from led
Im old fashion and did loved my old tank look under mh/t5 combo. Another thing growth rate , corals were growing like weed under mh


3. Do you remember the discussion about LED and about how there wasn't proof that they would work?
I do

 

[nezw0001]

1. Have you ever used Metal Halide and T5 Lighting on a reef tank?

Yes and Yes

2. Do you currently have a tank running MH or T5 lights?

Currently running MH on my 450G mixed reef. Hard to get coverage at a reasonable price for a big tank.

Running T5s on my high end nem propagation tanks. They don't seem to like LEDS

3. Do you remember the discussion about LED and about how there wasn't proof that they would work?

Yes, pure silliness. Always and Never should never be used with a biological system.

 

[nezw0001]

It is just a matter of time before they are either banned or the companies stop producing them. Beer companies have stopped making 3.2 beer for Utah because they are the last state require the lower ABV. It is no longer cost affective. T5s will be around for at least a decade I'm sure. But 10 years is not a long time. I personally have T5s and I love them. But they will be gone sooner than later. I wish the LED T5s would grow corals. Less electricity and longer lasting bulb. That is the future IMHO.

Unfortunately MN still has 3.2 laws. We are the last state standing

 

[Claybird1985]

Idk the numbers but reef brite supposedly did that with their MH fixtures/ballast. I still haven't seen many jump on that though..

Love my RB ballasts and the dimming feature is actually pretty bad*** .. ! More PAR than my lumateks (radium bulbs) and a few watts less.

 

[Reefahholic]

I honestly think Halides are gonna be out the door soon. T5’s will stay around much longer. LED’s have come a long way with spread/distribution and they’re going coral very well now. I think most of the Halide guys will eventually switch over to avoid the heat, bulkiness, electricity costs, wattage, chillers, etc. There’s no doubt that Halides are still one of the best (if not the best) light for coral growth. I’m fixing to get away from ATI PowerModule’s because they weigh 60 lbs or so and it’s hard to hang and adjust them. My electric bill has definitely gone down since the fixture is gone. I think LED fixtures will just keep getting better. The Radion G5 has finally convinced me to try LED. Took me a long time, but I think I’m going with the G5 pros on the new build. It just makes it much easier. No bulb changes. It’s gonna be hard not to throw some T5’s up their with them though. We’ll see what happens.

 

[Silent]

I have a 6 bulb t5 I will use in the future on a frag tank that I can put doubles of frags to compare colors against a led frag tank. Each tank and each type of lighting will produce different colors in corals. It would be nice to see that side by side.

 

[DeeFromBrooklyn]

I have a 6 bulb t5 I will use in the future on a frag tank that I can put doubles of frags to compare colors against a led frag tank. Each tank and each type of lighting will produce different colors in corals. It would be nice to see that side by side.

I'm sitting on a 6 bulb t5 fixture because I don't want the jump in electrical usage or the headache of buying those ATI bulbs anymore.. they definitely grew coral better than the leds

 

[kenchilada]

I'm sitting on a 6 bulb t5 fixture because I don't want the jump in electrical usage or the headache of buying those ATI bulbs anymore.. they definitely grew coral better than the leds

I never did understand the power consumption argument. Seems so small of a savings.

For a 72" tank:
6x80W T5 = 480W
Three Radion XR30 G5 = 615W (run at 75% is 461W)

I'm spending more on salt for quarantine tanks than I do on electricity for lighting.

Same with unit cost comparisons:

6x80W T5 Sunpower = $672 new
Three Radion XR30 G5 = $2517 new

That would give me a $1845 budget for light bulbs. That cover changing bulbs for about 15 years.

 

[jda]

Mostly old arguments from people who cannot do math, have unrealistic expectations and/or are betting on the future. Been hearing for a decade-plus that LEDs are getting better and are going to be as good as MH, but none yet can do what a MH can do. They can get close and are different, so if that is OK, then cool, but they are not direct replacements. The Gen 3s were supposed to do this... then the Gen 4s... not hearing so much good about the Gen 5s, so they either are just OK or people are understand that they are not actually much more than a G4. There will likely always be MH around for large tanks since they are the cheapest. Also need to get LEDs to last more than 3-4 years for the masses before they are truly cost effective - sure, some have them last much longer, but they are not the norm. A $800 fixture at 10 years is more like it, not a 1 year warrant and lasting 3-4 and maybe 5 for most folks.

VHOs were supposed to disappear a decade ago. Those are still around... and as long as they are, then I don't think that you have to worry about MH anytime soon. There have been more actual advances and new tech in MH in the last 5 years than in LED with the dual-arc bulb, new bulb formula to significantly reduce heat. There has not really been much new in LED tech since multicolor replaced blue/white.. just different blends of multicolor bulbs. I don't want to argue over mobius or apps or control, but the point is that people are investing in new MH tech for a reason... people use them and they are profitable.

...so we are just were we were 5-10 years ago. ...someday LED will be as good as MH and MH will disappear. I pay attention nearly every day, so somebody let me know if I miss when this actually happens. I parallel this to when i was a kid in the late 80s, everybody was supposed to be driving hydrogen cars or hovercraft with air lands for jet packs... I am still waiting for those too.

 

[zalick]

I've used power compact, T5, halides, DIY led, Kessil a360 and Mitras LX7. Currently have 6 a360s and 4 LX7 over a 300DD.

I'm switching back to halides. In my experience they offer the best growth and health of corals and clams. This is NOT to say that LEDs can't also grow this stuff.

I don't think I've seen anyone who has used both halides and LED and concluded that LED grew better or healthier corals. Maybe other benefits.... My 2c.


I don't think they are done.

 

[xtian]

Dave at Hamilton agrees MH wont disappear anytime soon and stated they sell several thousands of MH bulbs a year with no plans to discontinue them.

 

[Dr. Jim]

Sorry to side-track just a little, but does anyone know of any 48" Halide/T5 fixtures other than Hamilton? It seems like these fixtures (not pendants) have disappeared.

I have a Hamilton Cebu Sun (24") which is great except the legs are metal and the screws/nuts are rusting after 6 months. Would be perfect with plastic legs. (Does anyone know of a safe silicone-like spray or paint that I could use to coat the legs?)

I'll be using halides until there are no more halide bulbs left anywhere on Earth!