Third fish loss in QT in a month

[Boaz1021]

Let me start off by saying, I originally setup my QT at the same time as my main tank and had 2 clownfish in it while the DT was finishing cycling. I left them in there for 6 weeks, no disease or issue, so they went into the DT. I had 6 other fish over 2 months go through the QT tank without issue.

The last successful fish out of QT tank was my Naso Tang and a Derasa clam that were in there 6 weeks. They graduated to the DT and I put a Coral Beauty and Clown Fairy Wrasse into the QT. The Coral Beauty was dead within 24 hours, the Clown Fairy Wrasse didn't survive another 48hours. LFS said that they'd replace the Coal Beauty since it was within 24 hours of it coming home and going directly into an established QT, where the Naso and Derasa had just come out. (Waiting on another Coral Beauty to show up at the LFS).

I drained and wiped down the QT tank (15 Gallon Fluval AIO). Put the live rock, and ceramic biomedia in the sump of my display tank after rinsing it (I didn't use any medicine/copper, so I wanted to keep the rock cycled). I then let it sit dry for 2 weeks, wiped it down again with DI water and paper towels to make sure everything was clean (also rinsed sponge filter and return pump and hoses). I mixed fresh saltwater (HW Marine Mix) and put live rock and ceramic plate back in tank so that the Copper Banded Butterfly would have a place to hide, etc. I let it run for 3 days, then added the CBB and monitored the parameters and ammonia alert strip. No issues for 4 days, I saw it swimming around this morning while video chat with my daughter when she fed it before going to school (I was out of town) and then my wife got home at 2, walked past the tank and when she came back by, she noticed the CBB was dead and at the bottom of the tank. The CBB wasn't eating a *lot* but would come out to eat mysis shrimp when fed it to my DT. 3 dead fish in a row, after 8 successes in a row. I'm just at a loss as to what is going wrong all of the sudden. I even added an extra flow pump to make sure the water was getting moved enough.

 

[attiland]

If wasn’t medication in the water I can’t see what would you do wrong. I wouldn’t count CBB in this row as it has the history of dying in otherwise perfect conditions.

 

[Boaz1021]

If wasn’t medication in the water I can’t see what would you do wrong. I wouldn’t count CBB in this row as it has the history of dying in otherwise perfect conditions.

That's exactly my conundrum... I have no idea what I could have done wrong. I even brought in the water to my LFS to have them test it also, just in case I was doing something wrong and it all checked out. I told the guy I buy from at the LFS that the ghost of that first Coral Beauty that died must be haunting my QT and killing the inhabitants.

The wrasse swam on its side for a day after the CB died, so I knew it wouldn't last long. I just chalked that up to "whatever killed the CB must have gotten the Wrasse"... but with the CBB gone after looking perfectly healthy, I've just been doubting myself and worried that I messed something up. I even moved the QT to the living room (from the guest room) so that I could always keep an eye on it and watch the QT fish, just in case.


Here's a short video of the fairy wrasse the day before it died. I was trying to figure out what was wrong with it.

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[Tamberav]

The Copperband appears to have red marks on it. Uronema or a bacterial infection. They are fragile and prone to getting internal damage and later dying as well. Even in the first photo swimming around it appears to have some marks.

 

[Boaz1021]

The Copperband appears to have red marks on it. Uronema or a bacterial infection. They are fragile and prone to getting internal damage and later dying as well. Even in the first photo swimming around it appears to have some marks.

So the transfer from the LFS to my QT (15min drive) could have injured it? I honestly didn't realize they were that fragile...

I didn't notice any marks on it when it was alive, but did see them after it died. I didn't get to the house until 4 hours after my wife told me it had passed and I figured the red discoloration was from being dead on the bottom of the tank.


I guess, my real question, is what do I do now, moving forward with the QT? Should I dump it again and refill it with fresh saltwater after wiping it down and letting it dry for a week or 2?

 

[Reef AquaCult]

You didn’t mention anything about LFS salinity. Most fish stores keep their fish at lower salinity to save $$ and also is better to keep parasite count lower. If you drop the fish in 1.027 at your home it’s very stressful to the fish osmotic shock. You are already trying expert level fish. The fish was also likely in meds at the LFS which were suppressing the disease and when you drop in clean water the diseases can outbreak quickly. Wound on fish is concerning for uronema. I would recommend avoiding expert level fish and get some easier fish through QT. You didn’t mention which meds if any you are using.

 

[Tamberav]

So the transfer from the LFS to my QT (15min drive) could have injured it? I honestly didn't realize they were that fragile...

I didn't notice any marks on it when it was alive, but did see them after it died. I didn't get to the house until 4 hours after my wife told me it had passed and I figured the red discoloration was from being dead on the bottom of the tank.


I guess, my real question, is what do I do now, moving forward with the QT? Should I dump it again and refill it with fresh saltwater after wiping it down and letting it dry for a week or 2?

What I meant is It could have already been there and had not showed up yet. If there is even the slightest discoloration it’s best too pass on a Copperband.

How long did the LFS have that fish?

Otherwise they are also prone to Urenoma which can move fast and is very lethal.

Gram neg bacterial infections also kill quickly.

Redness is not normal even after death. There is a white mark in the first photo exactly where a red line developed later.

I would sterilize the tank.

 

[Tamberav]

Also you should never take rock out of your QT and add it to your display tank/sump. Ever. This defeats the entire purpose of QT.

QT is to protect your current fish and adding media from a QT to a DT can easily bring in disease. Rinsing it will not clear it of parasites. It makes QT a pointless endeavor if you plan to just move the rock back.

Your YouTube video is set to private.

 

[Boaz1021]

Also you should never take rock out of your QT and add it to your display tank/sump. Ever. This defeats the entire purpose of QT.

QT is to protect your current fish and adding media from a QT to a DT can easily bring in disease. Rinsing it will not clear it of parasites. It makes QT a pointless endeavor if you plan to just move the rock back.

Your YouTube video is set to private.

Try this link for the video, I think I figured it out.

 

[Boaz1021]

What I meant is It could have already been there and had not showed up yet. If there is even the slightest discoloration it’s best too pass on a Copperband.

How long did the LFS have that fish?

Otherwise they are also prone to Urenoma which can move fast and is very lethal.

Gram neg bacterial infections also kill quickly.

Redness is not normal even after death. There is a white mark in the first photo exactly where a red line developed later.

I would sterilize the tank.

I didn't notice the discoloration on the CBB when I purchased it.


@Reef AquaCult
The LFS had the fish for 2 weeks before I purchased it. When I first set up my tank, I matched my salinity, temp etc in my DT and QT to my LFS. They do run a light amount of copper, but no antibiotics other than that. They keep live rock in each tank with the fish as well as sand.

I'll have to read up on Urenoma. I didn't have any antibiotics in my QT, I was just observing the CBB at first before trying any treatment.

 

[Reef AquaCult]

We’re the fish eating in the store? I don’t see anything you are doing that’s wrong. I make sure to watch the fish for a good 20 mins at the store and have them feed the fish. If any abnormal behavior or not eating, it’s an automatic no go. I suspect the fish you got were already sick when you got them. Going from subtherapeutic copper to no copper is a recipe for disease outbreak.

 

[Boaz1021]

We’re the fish eating in the store? I don’t see anything you are doing that’s wrong. I make sure to watch the fish for a good 20 mins at the store and have them feed the fish. If any abnormal behavior or not eating, it’s an automatic no go. I suspect the fish you got were already sick when you got them. Going from subtherapeutic copper to no copper is a recipe for disease outbreak.

Gotcha. Yeah, he was eating and I saw him eat Mysis shrimp at the store. (I was there when they opened and watched them feed all the fish while we were talking because I was there to get some frozen Mysis for my DT Fish)

I think you might have a point with the subtherapic Copper to just fresh saltwater. I didn't think about needing copper in my QT until something was visibly wrong. I guess I'll have to get some copper to dose my tank before I put anything else in the QT.

 

[Tamberav]

Wrasse looks like he is breathing fast and I also see a mark on his side.

If your QT matches salinity to the bag of the fish then I don’t believe it is your QT process.

Other then if there is disease it is showing itself since no meds.

 

[Boaz1021]

Wrasse looks like he is breathing fast and I also see a mark on his side.

If your QT matches salinity to the bag of the fish then I don’t believe it is your QT process.

Other then if there is disease it is showing itself since no meds.

How should I go about "sterilizing my tank"? I have another Coral Beauty coming in and I need my QT to be ready for it.

 

[Tamberav]

How should I go about "sterilizing my tank"? I have another Coral Beauty coming in and I need my QT to be ready for it.

Drain and rinse with vinegar and fully dry anything for 48 hours.

You can not be re using rock between fish if there was a sick fish. You are just exposing new fish to potential things the last fish had. Sterilizing rock would mean an acid bath to RO soak to drying it out for long periods.

What some people do is keep media in their sump so it’s seeded. Like matrix or bioballs or whatever and move a fresh handful over to a QT every time they get a new fish.

What you can do since you are tight on time is get some media like sponge or matrix or what not and seed the tank with biospira to get it up and going quickly.

Use fake plastic hides (I hate PVC cuz fish do) like the freshwater crap. A log, fake plants, a skull, castle, doesn’t matter so long as it isn’t bright white. These can be sterilized and re-used easily every time.

The cycled media is tossed each time and new media added.

 

[Boaz1021]

I have a lot of extra live rock... well... rock... in the garage... I can always rotate it out thro l through the sump, into the QT, then sterilize... (amd repeat). I guess the biggest problem I would have is breaking the pieces down to fit in the tank.

.... my biggest problem is breaking it down for it to fit in my QC... lol