This debate will last through eternity! But it's 2020 and have things changed?

[NewCaliCaptives]

I have a nano reef and don’t have a slimmer. So I rely 100% on weekly water changes and filter socks for all of my nutrient export. I feel like that’s the best way to do it for a nano, but bigger tanks are a whole different animal in many aspects, as are nanos!

 

[Tankkeepers]

I put other becouse your tank has to be setup to be a no water change system and without all the proper gear and inhabitants you will only cause problems

 

[BKLYN651]

Color compare!
Last water change was 9/17. Try to do 5 gallons every 2-3 weeks 55 gallon.

 

[adobo]

Are water changes a thing of the past or of the present?

Do water changes, don't do water changes? The debate will last F O R E V E R!!

So why not continue it today! Well things change, methods change, people change, systems change and what is 2020 telling us, besides it's a crazy year, about changing out your water in your saltwater reef aquarium?

This paragraph from @Randy Holmes-Farley makes it as clear as mud but is so truthful! HA!



So in light of this brand new discussion topic of water changes let's dig in and talk about it! It's 2020 and has your feelings changed about water changes?

1. YES water changes are beneficial or NO water changes are not beneficial to a reef aquarium?

Let's go a step further....

2. YES water changes are necessary or NO water changes are not necessary for long term health of a reef aquarium?

3. Do you perform regular water changes on your reef aquarium?

Hi Rev,

At the risk of coming across as antagonistic, I kind of feel like this question doesn't add much to the community's knowledge. Most people who participate in these discussions share their feelings and personal observations.

The thing is, feelings are not facts. And humans are incredibly bad at measuring anything if all they are using are their own senses. The most we can get from this is perhaps a sense as to what the plurality of the hobbyists feel. Maybe 90% of hobbyists feel that water changes are a waste of time. Are those 90% of hobbyists right? Who knows, that is an entirely different question.

So honestly, my opinion is that state of the debate really cannot advance beyond "45% feel that option A is right, 45% feel option B is right, and 10% have mixed feelings" simply because people are expressing their feelings rather than presenting empirical facts.

Imagine if we were using our feelings to figure out to decide whether the earth is a sphere or if dinosaurs existed millions of years ago. Its fun to participate in threads but for us to get down to the truth of the value of consistent water changes, we will probably need to start to introduce the scientific method into the discussion.

 

[MnFish1]

Nitrate is usually 0.1ppm or less, phosphate, 0.01 or less. Probably a bit too low lately.

Water 50G from evaporation every 2 week, this doesn't count as a water change because no minerals change other than adding kalkwasser to help the carx keep up.

If a parameter is too high, I just let it go until it drops over time. I've only overdosed a few times and they drop on their own. Boron, molybdate, magnesium, I OD'd on those a few times, maybe bad calculations. Can't seem to keep Iodine, Vanadium, Iron and Zinc levels in my tank drop very fast. Then magnesium strontium, manganese, flouride, barium for next round of fast depleters.

In order of importance:

1. T5 w/ LED mix for lighting
2. gyres x 4, best flow ever, no powerheads
3. -ATS //uses up excess nutrients, icecap medium size
4. Bi-monthly ICP test and manual dosing as needed
5. -calcium reactor (8" x 20" I think, holds 2 gallons of media), burn through 1 gallon of media per 2 month
6. -auto doser for calc reactor (exactly 70ml/min), a DIY project, but they sell these now, very important IMO
7. -kalk wasser top off water, automatic, 1.5 cups per 50 gallon, last about 2 weeks, helps calc reactor keep up
8. 2 small return pumps, minimal sump
9. apex fusion system on everything, helps, but not needed
10. gas hot water loop for temperature control //also not needed
11. -coral growth //uses up most nutrients
12. -GFO //helps with a bit of silica I have too much of, and keeping phosphate in balance with nitrate 2 cup/8wk
13. -carbon //4 cups bi-weekly helps with water clarity from ATS yellowing of water
14. -live rock //maybe 300lbs?
15. -ceramic rock //2 big blocks that fill a 5G bucket with high flow, supposedly helps with anerobic bacteria to lower nitrate
16. -Skimmer //seems to really not do much, skimmate production is up and down all the time, annoying
17. -15G frag tank, coral and nasty algae in there, kinda forgot about this thing honestly, it keeps backups of colonies only.

I put my recipes below for my 300G water volume.

Thansk - there is no doubt you have a beautiful tank. One question I dont THINK (sorry if I missed it) - you answered - how often due to your ICP have you had to change water? I know you said - if one of the 'beneficial' things is too high - you let it fall - I mean things like Tin - or something else that are not likely to drop over time

 

[Ardeus]

Hi Rev,

At the risk of coming across as antagonistic, I kind of feel like this question doesn't add much to the community's knowledge. Most people who participate in these discussions share their feelings and personal observations.

The thing is, feelings are not facts. And humans are incredibly bad at measuring anything if all they are using are their own senses. The most we can get from this is perhaps a sense as to what the plurality of the hobbyists feel. Maybe 90% of hobbyists feel that water changes are a waste of time. Are those 90% of hobbyists right? Who knows, that is an entirely different question.

So honestly, my opinion is that state of the debate really cannot advance beyond "45% feel that option A is right, 45% feel option B is right, and 10% have mixed feelings" simply because people are expressing their feelings rather than presenting empirical facts.

Imagine if we were using our feelings to figure out to decide whether the earth is a sphere or if dinosaurs existed millions of years ago. Its fun to participate in threads but for us to get down to the truth of the value of consistent water changes, we will probably need to start to introduce the scientific method into the discussion.

Reef tanks are anti-scientific.

If you work in any field of scientific research, you focus on a niche subject and dig as deep as you can on that subject.

Understanding a reef tank requires the opposite, you need to connect dots from a wide variety of areas.

I guess that may help to explain why most experts in any area related to reef tanks don't have spectacular tanks

Regarding water changes, the samething applies. They affect a wide variety of things in the tank in many ways and they may help some aspects of some tanks and not so much in others, depending on the tank type and how it's managed.

 

[KWT]

Yes,yes, and yes, weekly changes, working for me so far in 3 tanks

 

[MnFish1]

Hi Rev,

At the risk of coming across as antagonistic, I kind of feel like this question doesn't add much to the community's knowledge. Most people who participate in these discussions share their feelings and personal observations.

The thing is, feelings are not facts. And humans are incredibly bad at measuring anything if all they are using are their own senses. The most we can get from this is perhaps a sense as to what the plurality of the hobbyists feel. Maybe 90% of hobbyists feel that water changes are a waste of time. Are those 90% of hobbyists right? Who knows, that is an entirely different question.

So honestly, my opinion is that state of the debate really cannot advance beyond "45% feel that option A is right, 45% feel option B is right, and 10% have mixed feelings" simply because people are expressing their feelings rather than presenting empirical facts.

Imagine if we were using our feelings to figure out to decide whether the earth is a sphere or if dinosaurs existed millions of years ago. Its fun to participate in threads but for us to get down to the truth of the value of consistent water changes, we will probably need to start to introduce the scientific method into the discussion.

I agree - and disagree. For example - my problem with the Triton method has always been - if you follow their protocol - and do ICP testing at their recommended timing - If something is 'high' the recommendation is 'water changes'. So - IMHO - why not just do water changes - get rid of the chaeto - the possible death of same (happened to me) - and all of the chemicals.

 

[MnFish1]

Color compare!
Last water change was 9/17. Try to do 5 gallons every 2-3 weeks 55 gallon.

I do not understand what you are showing - color me stupid

 

[WVNed]

One thing has changed. You can buy a simple device to do it for you.
So I no longer do water changes. It does them.

 

[MnFish1]

One thing has changed. You can buy a simple device to do it for you.
So I no longer do water changes. It does them.

until it fails

 

[BKLYN651]

I do not understand what you are showing - color me stupid

Color compare!
Last water change was 9/17. Try to do 5 gallons every 2-3 weeks 55 gallon.


just slight yellow tint in bucket taken from tank in bottom photo and top in second photo.

 

[zachtos]

FYI, in my 300G SPS, water changes would be a total waste of time. My tank pulls vanadium, zinc, iron, iodine and strontium to nearly 0 within a month. I can't afford to change 100% water per month, so coral colors/health will always be deficient. It's easy to test with ICP to verify this issue.

 

[zachtos]

Thansk - there is no doubt you have a beautiful tank. One question I dont THINK (sorry if I missed it) - you answered - how often due to your ICP have you had to change water? I know you said - if one of the 'beneficial' things is too high - you let it fall - I mean things like Tin - or something else that are not likely to drop over time

I have NOT changed ANY water in 2 years. I only ADD supplements to keep the trace/major minerals near real ocean levels. I have had much more success than 10 years ago in my old 240G SPS tank. Things that are too high, have not been a problem for me so far. The corals use up many of the minerals, and if something is high and is not being consumed, then it usually is not a problem. GFO, carbon, skimming and ATS act as some forms of export though.

 

[Joedubyk]

FYI, in my 300G SPS, water changes would be a total waste of time. My tank pulls vanadium, zinc, iron, iodine and strontium to nearly 0 within a month. I can't afford to change 100% water per month, so coral colors/health will always be deficient. It's easy to test with ICP to verify this issue.

why not dose, and do WC at the same time? trace elements is just a small fraction of why wc work so well

 

[zachtos]

why not dose, and do WC at the same time? trace elements is just a small fraction of why wc work so well

water changes are expensive with a big reef, more expensive than ICP testing. Dumping water down the drain will screw up all my mineral levels and rhythm of consumption. Everything is going amazingly for me, so why fix what's not broken?
*note, my nutrient issues are non existent, so no true reason to WC.

 

[ca1ore]

So honestly, my opinion is that state of the debate really cannot advance beyond "45% feel that option A is right, 45% feel option B is right, and 10% have mixed feelings" simply because people are expressing their feelings rather than presenting empirical facts.

Sounds about right LOL!

This hobby has historically suffocated under anecdotes and rules-of-thumb. Making forceful claims based on opinion is still just opinion. My approach to these things is that 'your' opinion doesn't matter and my opinion doesn't mater. They're either important or they're not. Since there is really no data one way or the other, I'll keep doing them just to be on the safe side. Imagine that's why places like WWC keep doing them.

 

[Joedubyk]

water changes are expensive with a big reef, more expensive than ICP testing. Dumping water down the drain will screw up all my mineral levels and rhythm of consumption. Everything is going amazingly for me, so why fix what's not broken?
*note, my nutrient issues are non existent, so no true reason to WC.

i hear ya. if its working and your tank looks great for sure. I believe for the large majority , especially in the first few years. WC are vvery very beneficial.

 

[Proteus Meep]

 

[Deaf clown]

I feel like the ones that don’t do water changes with sps corals spend WAY more money on equipment and products when water changes would help just as well.