This hobby is out of control

[Eddie7144]

Deffinatly check the out store , I go there at times and they are a good store and pretty good selection of live stock. Of all the stores I go to in the 5 boughs I just think they are over priced.

 

[Dkeller_nc]

What I find odd is the price of equipment. Maybe I'm missing something but I dont get why lights and controllers, for example, cost so much. Considering in other markets much more high tech equipment costs less. I could build a dang good full blown pc for the price of a controller or some lights. And I'm sure the cpu and gpu in it would be far more advanced than the components in the controller, let alone some lights.

As someone that's in Manufacturing for a living, I can answer this one. I do rather frequently see folks insinuate that higher-end equipment manufacturers are "ripping people off". That's actually far from the truth. There's a lot that goes into it:

Conceptualization
Designing
Prototyping
Identifying and Qualifying Vendors of Sub-Components
Purchase Management (i.e., receiving, reconciling receipts with orders, quality checks, returns, "firing" vendors, dealing with backorders, etc...)
Manufacturing
Manufacturing Management (scheduling, inventory management, sales predictions, staffing, etc...)
Order Fullfillment, whether to individuals or distributors

That's just the manufacturing operations piece, and doesn't count sales and marketing, research and development of the next products, etc....

What's typically the case when I see folks opining that they can "get the same thing" for far less than X brand, they're comparing apples and oranges. Specifically, they may be comparing products with no R&D that are knock-offs of existing items, products that are "tool shaped objects" where the device has greatly cheapened components and little or no quality control that's advertised as "just as good as Y", or even items where brand X is made by a company in a country with established labor practices, pollution laws, etc... that has customer service, warranty repair, spare parts availability, etc... to brand Y that's assembled in countries with little or no intellectual property protection, pollution laws, worker protection laws, etc..., etc... and the item has no spare parts available, there's no customer service and (often) not even any way to contact the company, and a promised warranty with no way to follow up and actually make good on that warranty.

In the case of the example you gave (PC components), there's something else at play that massively dwarfs those other considerations above - economies of scale. When considered generally as to the global market, almost no one wants a reef tank light. Just about everyone wants computer components (whether for actual PCs or the little computers we call "phones"). While I don't know the actual specifics, I'm certain I could eat for free if I bet lunch with someone that the custom PCB in a Radion light that says "EcoTech Marine" on it had a gigantically higher order set-up charge and a substantially higher per-piece rate than your average USB 3.1 daughter card designed to go into a PCIe slot on a computer motherboard.

Looked at another way, the extremely sophisticated glass touchscreen in an iPhone would easily cost about $10k if they were manufactured on the scale of Abyzz water pumps.

 

[scriptmonkey]

As someone that's in Manufacturing for a living, I can answer this one. I do rather frequently see folks insinuate that higher-end equipment manufacturers are "ripping people off". That's actually far from the truth. There's a lot that goes into it:

Conceptualization
Designing
Prototyping
Identifying and Qualifying Vendors of Sub-Components
Purchase Management (i.e., receiving, reconciling receipts with orders, quality checks, returns, "firing" vendors, dealing with backorders, etc...)
Manufacturing
Manufacturing Management (scheduling, inventory management, sales predictions, staffing, etc...)
Order Fullfillment, whether to individuals or distributors

That's just the manufacturing operations piece, and doesn't count sales and marketing, research and development of the next products, etc....

What's typically the case when I see folks opining that they can "get the same thing" for far less than X brand, they're comparing apples and oranges. Specifically, they may be comparing products with no R&D that are knock-offs of existing items, products that are "tool shaped objects" where the device has greatly cheapened components and little or no quality control that's advertised as "just as good as Y", or even items where brand X is made by a company in a country with established labor practices, pollution laws, etc... that has customer service, warranty repair, spare parts availability, etc... to brand Y that's assembled in countries with little or no intellectual property protection, pollution laws, worker protection laws, etc..., etc... and the item has no spare parts available, there's no customer service and (often) not even any way to contact the company, and a promised warranty with no way to follow up and actually make good on that warranty.

In the case of the example you gave (PC components), there's something else at play that massively dwarfs those other considerations above - economies of scale. When considered generally as to the global market, almost no one wants a reef tank light. Just about everyone wants computer components (whether for actual PCs or the little computers we call "phones"). While I don't know the actual specifics, I'm certain I could eat for free if I bet lunch with someone that the custom PCB in a Radion light that says "EcoTech Marine" on it had a gigantically higher order set-up charge and a substantially higher per-piece rate than your average USB 3.1 daughter card designed to go into a PCIe slot on a computer motherboard.

Looked at another way, the extremely sophisticated glass touchscreen in an iPhone would easily cost about $10k if they were manufactured on the scale of Abyzz water pumps.

Very well said.

 

[WVNed]

Well pick up trucks cost $55,000 now and if you put your wet dirty dog in it after a day at the park in the creek it is totaled.

 

[brian moran]

I understand the topic, but wish a particular vendor was not singled out. I pop into NYRA now & then being from northern NJ & they are good people. Just so happens I spend waaaayyyy too much on loads of corals, and I can honestly say 2 of the nicest & healthiest in my entire tank came from them... Chalice first pic is a few months after purchase and then about a year after I got it... I don't think I could have gotten a nicer chalice anywhere for any price...

 

[scriptmonkey]

I believe the intent was they were just used as an example. If you look a lot of the big producers of "signature" corals were mentioned or indirectly mentioned plus it's all been very civil so I think no harm.

 

[Waynerock]

Well I wanted a MP10, could not justify the money and got two Aqamai KPS for less than 1 MP10 and could not be happier. There are cheeper options sometimes you need to be creative and research. Are they as good? Well 1 I have had for over a year and has never shut off or been maintained and still runs perfectly. Same with lights I really wanted a radion but got two AI Primes for less and once again. Very happy. Corals and another story but at least you can cut em a couple times and make your money back or like me hook up other people near you that can’t afford to even look at these prices. I am broke and in a rich mans hobby...I’ll take that challenge

 

[ca1ore]

Seems like there’s one of these kinds of threads every week or two. Same answer each time. Sellers can set absurd prices, but somebody has to be willing to pay them. Otherwise, prices come down. Simple. True for livestock or for equipment. A new damsel was recently found around Madagascar. Novel and ‘rare’ so it’s priced at over $200 on divers den. Maybe it really is rare, but maybe it’s just new and commanding bright-shiny-object pricing. Maybe in a year they’ll be $10 like most other damsels. I shall wait.

 

[ca1ore]

What I find odd is the price of equipment. Maybe I'm missing something but I dont get why lights and controllers, for example, cost so much. Considering in other markets much more high tech equipment costs less. I could build a dang good full blown pc for the price of a controller or some lights. And I'm sure the cpu and gpu in it would be far more advanced than the components in the controller, let alone some lights.

Really, I’d think it self evident? Anything made for a niche hobby is going to carry a siazable premium. Just look at high end, audiophile amplifiers for a world class case of sticker shock. They use mostly standard capacitors, components , etc., yet carry a huge premium. Same for stuff made for this hobby. If you have the skill to build it yourself that’s great; most either don’t have the skills or their time is better spent elsewhere.

 

[justingraham]

I like a green slimer anyday over a WD. $20 or $200? Or homewrecker.

You say that but if u had a home wrecker you wouldn’t
Well worth the money
Only coral my girl notices as it literally glows from 20 feet away in 14k daylight
Now a wd you can now get for 75 dollars and that’s worth it it is a nice coral for that price

While I get what your saying look at a purple monster or an Oregon tort they were both 10-20 dollar corals in the 90’s but now if u can even find anyone who has one the OT are 150 dollars and the purple monsters are closer to 200

Money isn’t the same as it was when our president was getting a lil sexy time in the office
Gas then was 99 cents
Cars were around 5,000
The economy was different

And for people to complain about prices of corals they aren’t even buying I find funny as well to me it means you either want it and can’t afford it and your jealous it’s like complaining an Acura NSX is to expensive because a Honda Civic is 100,000 dollars cheaper

The price is what anyone will pay for it there was a live sale from JF and he had a new coral priced at 500 I think and at the end all of them were still left because it wasn’t worth that and in his last live sale the price of the same coral was 250 and none of them were left because people thought the coral was worth that much.

Wwc live sale crashing R2R is great I think esp with all the bans going on I want this hobby to continue on and I want as many people selling corals as possible as it drives down prices

Now I would never buy any of the original zoanthids posted for that price but I also wouldn’t take any of them for free either so I think the price is crazy yes I do but I am not mad that they are asking that much either

The expensive corals that sell are expensive for a reason if you can see some of these in real life not from a doctored up photo I find it hard anyone wouldn’t buy them
Baton Rouge
Home wrecker
Op
Sunday driver
Hungs Rainbow
Are just a few in my book that are worth every penny
But if you have a civic budget but want a NSX you can get
Fox flame
Can malificent
Tsa princess peach
Pink lemonade
Bc spainbow
Wd

 

[MrObscura]

I've seen the homewrecker in person, didn't even realize it was homewrecker at first... It was a nice coral, but not 600 bucks nice.

Personally I like the Walt Disney more. And still don't want to pay 150 bucks for a frag.

As for equipment prices, Yea I mentioned above higher than usual markups due to being a niche full of people willing to spend, but it still doesnt change the fact that things are expensive for what the are.

 

[Thaxxx]

WWC is laughing all the way to the bank.
There's one born every minute.

 

[Waynerock]

That’s why everyone needs someone awesome growing out corals and hooking everyone up

30.00!

gold hammer times 2 40.00 a piece

gold torch (my fave) 40.00!!

green torch 20.00!! Why not!

agave zoa and forest fire digi a steal at 50.00 for both!! We all need to get together and support each other and not screw each other on pricing and don’t feed the demon[emoji83] it’s hard to resist the pretty pictures though being straight broke helps

 

[RELLIK-REEF]

That’s why everyone needs someone awesome growing out corals and hooking everyone up

30.00!

gold hammer times 2 40.00 a piece

gold torch (my fave) 40.00!!

green torch 20.00!! Why not!

agave zoa and forest fire digi a steal at 50.00 for both!! We all need to get together and support each other and not screw each other on pricing and don’t feed the demon[emoji83] it’s hard to resist the pretty pictures though being straight broke helps

Are these frags that you have for sale?

 

[Waynerock]

No just showing that you can find good deals sometimes. There are a lot of people local that enjoy sharing there Beauty and not trying to drag you over the coals. These guys just make enough to fuel there addiction. I like to keep everything in my little tank trimmed and practically give stuff away. I try to encourage everyone I know to enjoy this hobby. Definitely had friends give me hell for getting them hooked.

 

[Ariel V Rosa]

Soon, not yet, but soon. Sps will fade as it is largely aquacultured. What is going to become rare is softies. Lots of countries have closed their waters of to harvesting for the hobby. So soon, not yet softies will become harder to get. So will a lot of common fish we see, like tangs, I think only one guy has managed to captive breed them.

 

[Brad Miller]

This topic caught my eye.....

Well pick up trucks cost $55,000 now and if you put your wet dirty dog in it after a day at the park in the creek it is totaled.

I can reef because I have a 1991 Dodge Ram truck

 

[Hemmdog]

Soon, not yet, but soon. Sps will fade as it is largely aquacultured. What is going to become rare is softies. Lots of countries have closed their waters of to harvesting for the hobby. So soon, not yet softies will become harder to get. So will a lot of common fish we see, like tangs, I think only one guy has managed to captive breed them.

Are you saying sps colors will fade due to aquaculture or its popularity in the hobby?

 

[Jon Fishman]

Well pick up trucks cost $55,000 now and if you put your wet dirty dog in it after a day at the park in the creek it is totaled.

A beater costs $55k now.....

 

[Piranhapat]

I agree this hobby is out of control. But you decide if you really want to spend that kind of money. In time the more become available price will drop. You can shop a round and you will see good value.