This is why sharks should stay in the ocean

[IceNein]

Agreed. Putting aside the massive bioload for the volume that is an ammonia spike in real time, the fishes behaviour is not like it’s their home. The tank also does not look like a tank that has the side effects of all those big dirty feeding fish. If the tank was anything more than a video put together it was assembled in a cut flower display attitude to fish keeping. It in no way shape or form represents this hobby, particularly in western countries. It’s virtually click bait.

You make some very good points. The cleanliness of the tank is evidence in itself that something is not right.

 

[KQuillan]

That's silly. Although we all have a tipping point, each one is different. I wouldn't condone what this video depicts but that's as far as I will go. If that person wants to put all those fish in that tank, that's their perogative.

What do you say when those whose tipping point is, people shouldn't have any fish in an aquarium?

Comparing apples to oranges.

 

[Should I]

That's silly. Although we all have a tipping point, each one is different. I wouldn't condone what this video depicts but that's as far as I will go. If that person wants to put all those fish in that tank, that's their perogative.

What do you say when those whose tipping point is, people shouldn't have any fish in an aquarium?

videos like this is why people say "people shouldn't have any fish in an aquarium"

 

[Sisterlimonpot]

Comparing apples to oranges.

Not really, it's just a matter of perspective.

Someone that's triggered by this video needs to at least be able to see the irony.

videos like this is why people say "people shouldn't have any fish in an aquarium"

What should be the correct response? Live and let live? Or force people to live by what another perceive to be right or wrong?

 

[crazyfishmom]

Not really, it's just a matter of perspective.

Someone that's triggered by this video needs to at least be able to see the irony.



What should be the correct response? Live and let live? Or force people to live by what another perceive to be right or wrong?

I understand these perspectives however in this construct we call a society we have agreed to abide by a set of rules largely put in place by morality clauses where we agree not to kill, rob from each other etc and there are laws that enforce those morality clauses. They differ from person to person hence the many debates surrounding particular beliefs which I won’t mention here as I don’t want to lead this post down a winding path of political or religious arguments but the “live and let live” argument or the “live by my rules” argument are both severely lacking when we speak about quality of life of an animal that is alive and did not have a choice in where it was placed. I’m not a hypocrite and the mere fact that I put fish and coral in a tank for my entertainment means that I have already determined that my state of consciousness or position in the food chain supersedes theirs but there has to be a point where we agree that other beings should at the very least be provided with appropriate care defined by at the very least their basic needs. What that means should be a broader conversation and I don’t pretend to want to dictate what that means to any one individual but there’s a reason the loss of freedom is deemed as a severe form of punishment in our human societies and why solitary confinement in a tiny cell is an even harsher form of said punishment.

 

[Paul B]

I think those fish will be fine as long as they can put their face in the water.

 

[Sisterlimonpot]

I understand these perspectives however in this construct we call a society we have agreed to abide by a set of rules largely put in place by morality clauses where we agree not to kill, rob from each other etc and there are laws that enforce those morality clauses. They differ from person to person hence the many debates surrounding particular beliefs which I won’t mention here as I don’t want to lead this post down a winding path of political or religious arguments but the “live and let live” argument or the “live by my rules” argument are both severely lacking when we speak about quality of life of an animal that is alive and did not have a choice in where it was placed. I’m not a hypocrite and the mere fact that I put fish and coral in a tank for my entertainment means that I have already determined that my state of consciousness or position in the food chain supersedes theirs but there has to be a point where we agree that other beings should at the very least be provided with appropriate care defined by at the very least their basic needs. What that means should be a broader conversation and I don’t pretend to want to dictate what that means to any one individual but there’s a reason the loss of freedom is deemed as a severe form of punishment in our human societies and why solitary confinement in a tiny cell is an even harsher form of said punishment.

Exactly, and in the end it boils down to ethics and where you stand on that spectrum. In your mind, you've concluded that keeping a reef tank affords the inhabitants a level of quality of life that is acceptable. Where as someone who thinks what you're doing is wrong will latch onto points like confinement vs open oceans, not providing a sustainable environment commensurate to the ocean, etc.

To me, taking them from the ocean and putting them into a glass box is a more convincing argument than taking them from a larger glass box and sticking them in a smaller one. Hence the irony.

The mental gymnastics that we do to convince ourselves this is fine, but then lash out at videos like this is on some level... plain silly.

When you watch that video, you may be sickened.

But another person could watch this video and be equally sickened.

 

[twentyleagues]

Exactly, and in the end it boils down to ethics and where you stand on that spectrum. In your mind, you've concluded that keeping a reef tank affords the inhabitants a level of quality of life that is acceptable. Where as someone who thinks what you're doing is wrong will latch onto points like confinement vs open oceans, not providing a sustainable environment commensurate to the ocean, etc.

To me, taking them from the ocean and putting them into a glass box is a more convincing argument than taking them from a larger glass box and sticking them in a smaller one. Hence the irony.

The mental gymnastics that we do to convince ourselves this is fine, but then lash out at videos like this is on some level... plain silly.

When you watch that video, you may be sickened.

But another person could watch this video and be equally sickened.

I am going to say you are correct. Anyone that looks at the tank the post is about is technically a hypocrite if they are appalled by it. Because honestly us as humans keeping animals for our pleasure is not natural or "good". Even if you are providing the best possible environment. I am a hypocrite because I see the tank you posted and think wow beautiful! The fish seem relaxed and just going about their business . The corals are healthy. Everything looks great. The op posted tank looks like hell on earth. Its not right in either case in all reality we just justify it if things look good and they may be but its not as good as them being in their natural environment. You really need to be honest with yourself as humans we are monsters.

 

[Miami Reef]

Exactly, and in the end it boils down to ethics and where you stand on that spectrum. In your mind, you've concluded that keeping a reef tank affords the inhabitants a level of quality of life that is acceptable. Where as someone who thinks what you're doing is wrong will latch onto points like confinement vs open oceans, not providing a sustainable environment commensurate to the ocean, etc.

To me, taking them from the ocean and putting them into a glass box is a more convincing argument than taking them from a larger glass box and sticking them in a smaller one. Hence the irony.

The mental gymnastics that we do to convince ourselves this is fine, but then lash out at videos like this is on some level... plain silly.

When you watch that video, you may be sickened.

But another person could watch this video and be equally sickened.

I like how you put your reasoning into words. You explained the thought process so well.

Yes, it is definitely ironic and it’s a very fine line to cross. It’s all about perspective and where you fall on the spectrum.

 

[Dom]

That's silly. Although we all have a tipping point, each one is different. I wouldn't condone what this video depicts but that's as far as I will go. If that person wants to put all those fish in that tank, that's their perogative.

What do you say when those whose tipping point is, people shouldn't have any fish in an aquarium?

In the end, if you are going to keep fish (or any other animal), you have an obligation to do it in a way that is responsible.

For me, it isn't about prerogative, but about being able to look at myself in the mirror.

Would you keep you dog in a crate all day, never letting it out, feeding it and letting it do its business in the crate?

This is the same thing.

Could you spend your entire life in a 10 x 10 room? Maybe. Would you want to? Probably not.

The whole point of this hobby is to recreate an environment consistent with what the animals in the tank experience in the wild. That's not what this tank is.

 

[Reefering1]

Hmm, interesting discussion... I do like my freedoms and wouldn't push for any additional restrictions or oversight. Mostly because of my own desire to not have my options limited in the future. Feels like a slippery slope and there are likely more of "them" than "us". In my opinion, those fish don't live in that tank or appear very wild. I'll choose to believe they are going somewhere more suitable, this was a holding tank. Mental gymnastics, I like that term...

 

[jrill]

You all don't actually believe this is real do you? AI at its best.

 

[stewy14]

this dude has the best vids!!! lets all commemorate him by reporting him for animal abuse!!!

 

[Miami Reef]

You all don't actually believe this is real do you? AI at its best.

The video was made 8 years ago. It’s not AI.

 

[Dom]

You all don't actually believe this is real do you? AI at its best.

It doesn't matter if it is real. The message is that what is in the video is okay. What is depicted in the video is not okay, it is irresponsible.

 

[Dom]

this dude has the best vids!!! lets all commemorate him by reporting him for animal abuse!!!

Hardly the same thing.

 

[stewy14]

Hardly the same thing.

wat
that tank is too small for half of thsoe

 

[Tamberav]

The tank is from Indonesia which makes me think it is real and not click bait. Different cultural norms there.

 

[twentyleagues]

Hardly the same thing.

First I agree its not the same, but it kind of is. There is aggression and not enough coverage for everyone in the tank. I would say this is borderline ok for maybe a qt for a month or so if all the fish came from the same place at the same time. Still need better hiding spots even in that scenario.

 

[twentyleagues]

The tank is from Indonesia which makes me think it is real and not click bait.

I agree. They love to pack too small of a tank with too large of fish. Happens in the freshwater world all the time too. A 3' tank with a 1.5' Asian arowana, a 4' tank with 10-12 12" bichirs and so on. Its fine for a while then you get the "why did my $5000 arowana jump? It's ok though I got a new one thats even better looking than the last one".