Thoughts on why Tangs are ich magnets.

Topekoms

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Why the word ich induces such a rabid response in people makes me scratch my head.

Let's distill this down. In my example ich is the indication of something that is wrong. I think that, for lack of a better word, the anti-ich people can agree with this. I posit that the something that might be wrong is inducing the ich or stress or whatever you want to call it is that certain types of fish might not be getting proper rest i.e. not sleeping. That is all.

That someone dragged this into a never ending discussion of ich is sad but often the case when it comes to discussing anything around fish disease.

The post was never really about it ich it was about stress. More specifically it is about how certain fish could be prone to this type of stress.

Thoughts on why Tangs are ich magnets. Is the title of the topic. What do you mean post was never about ich.......​

 
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Paul B

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not to say Paul is wrong but I think he might be a bit misguided. So let's compare ich to tape worm. You wouldn't want to be infected with tape worm as it would affect your health and could possibly kill you.
I don't think you can compare ich to a tapeworm. Yes, they are both parasites but all fish harbor parasites like ich, not all fish harbor tapeworms. The immune system can easily take care of ich but not tapeworms or fish hooks.
That someone dragged this into a never ending discussion of ich
True so I will end my post there. :)
 
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HuduVudu

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Thoughts on why Tangs are ich magnets. Is the title of the topic. What do you mean post was never about ich.......​

That you can't understand what the post was about is why you will forever struggle with ich. It seems your not alone.

Good luck with your ich free tank. I wish your tank and fish longevity.
 

Shooter6

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I have seen the phenomnon. Everybody in the tank seems fine but the Powder Blue/Brown or Hippo gets it. They get it on and off. It seems to come and go, but never leaves, leaving you scratching your head.

I have a thought.

Background. I have the butterfly version of the Powder Blue/Brown tang. That would be a Pakastani Butterfly. When he arrived he had two small white spots. I don't worry too much about this because my tank is set up with high flow and surface skimming to encourage good oxygen content. I also have have good biodiversity through live rock. These are my base preventatives for dealing with ich. I also recieved a Sunset Butterfly the same time as the Pakastani and she did a little head shaking but that was about it. The ich on the Pakastani got worse. The Sunset got better. The Pakastani got more spots on his tail and lower dorsals and he was pacing and head shaking constantly. He quickly started eating the white worms that I fed so I didn't worry.

Now to my thought. I noticed that there was a TON of light pollution in my tank. I have decent amount of hiding places in the rock for the fish but the Pakastani would sleep out in the open. Essentially he would be awake the entire night. He would never sleep. Sometime back I had a maintenance tank in a hospital and had 3 Pakastanis in it. They all died because the light in the room that they were in never went out. It occured to me that this stressor of not sleeping was keeping the ich coming back. With that thought in mind my wife started to cover the tank with sheets at night. This seemed to do the trick the ich started to abate and the fish started to calm down.

Aftermath. The Pakastani has stopped pacing and the spots are all gone. The fish seems calmer. He still has the head shakes occasionally but I am sure that that will go too.

Just a thought for people that are having problems with chronic ich on their tangs.
Infected tank, so will never go away until you cure the system.
Tangs are not ick magnets, only show signs easier then the rest. Thats due to smother skin/ less slime coat. Ick also attacks the gills of fish who show no obvious signs.
 

Paul B

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BTW my tang is 4 years old, I´m far from talented enough to keep it stress free that long (I even moved the entire tank to a new home the last year). I also have a Mandarin that sleeps on the substrate, 2 years old that one.
I hate to get involved in this and it is nice your tang is 4 years old in an ich free tank.
My hippo in this picture was 10 years old in an un quarantined ich infected tank.
That red fireclown is still alive and him and his mate are 30.



This mandarin was 10 here in the same "infected" tank



This copperband was 10 in the same tank


My new Hippo here is still a baby at 3 years old


Showing a fish a few years old in a quarantined tank is fine and proves a fish can live without parasites for a third of it's lifespan. You are a good aquarist and those fish probably love you. Now if those fish die of old age while never getting sick. That will be a success and prove your point.
So far I have not seen to many or even one quarantined fish that died of old age and was never sick. And spawn if it is they type of fish that can spawn.

PS, I also moved this tank. Fish and all.
 
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lefkonj

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While I try to buy fish that are QT'ed and healthy ICH is a thing I am not sure you can avoid long term. I have seen spots on some fish from time to time but it usually resolves itself as long as they are eating and active. If I had a large stress event in the tank (rock shuffling, equipment issue, etc) I may see some spots on my tangs but most of the time they can ride it out and are fine. Have several Tangs for about 6-7 years now.
IMG_1676.JPG
 

Reef and Dive

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I hate to get involved in this and it is nice your tang is 4 years old in an ich free tank.
My hippo in this picture was 10 years old in an un quarantined ich infected tank.
That red fireclown is still alive and him and his mate are 30.



This mandarin was 10 here in the same "infected" tank



This copperband was 10 in the same tank


My new Hippo here is still a baby at 3 years old


Showing a fish a few years old in a quarantined tank is fine and proves a fish can live without parasites for a third of it's lifespan. You are a good aquarist and those fish probably love you. Now if those fish die of old age while never getting sick. That will be a success and prove your point.
So far I have not seen to many or even one quarantined fish that died of old age and was never sick. And spawn if it is they type of fish that can spawn.

PS, I also moved this tank. Fish and all.
Paul I showed my personal experience just as a source of example for fish that are considered “ich magnets” and even under many stressful moments did not get infected. Just to show it “can be done”.

In my city it is incredible the amount of fish that arrive every week and do not make it. It is an average city far from the shore where the hobby is pretty expensive and not common.

It is incredible the discrepancy between the number of tanks and the number of fish that were removed from nature just to die every week. And I go back to the LFS just to buy fish food and Balling or other maintenance products.

The fact that there are fish tanks where these fish survive IMHO do not justify the massive amount of fish that die. It would make the hobby a lot less predatory...
 

Topekoms

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That you can't understand what the post was about is why you will forever struggle with ich. It seems your not alone.

Good luck with your ich free tank. I wish your tank and fish longevity.
Bro that is a bit childish. Your topic was about ich not about stress. Especially tangs with ich. If your ***** about my response change your topic to what you really want to talk about
 
Fritz

Paul B

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It is incredible the discrepancy between the number of tanks and the number of fish that were removed from nature just to die every week.
Correct. It boggles my mind how many fish are collected and how many die in a few weeks in some people's tanks. I really can't stand it as I love these things.
 
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HuduVudu

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Thats due to smother skin/ less slime coat.
This is one possible answer. There is probably a study to back it up, but just because it can be doesn't mean that it is. Mandrians are also smooth scaled and so are many of the gobies, they don't seem to have the reputation for ich.
 
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HuduVudu

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While I try to buy fish that are QT'ed and healthy ICH is a thing I am not sure you can avoid long term. I have seen spots on some fish from time to time but it usually resolves itself as long as they are eating and active. If I had a large stress event in the tank (rock shuffling, equipment issue, etc) I may see some spots on my tangs but most of the time they can ride it out and are fine. Have several Tangs for about 6-7 years now.
IMG_1676.JPG
I think you hit the nail on the head ... a stressor event.

I am suggesting that not sleeping triggers a stressor event. Continuing to miss the cause of the stressor event, in this case sleep, will push the fish down a path toward it's demise.

I also suggested that certain species of fish might be more prone to this type of stressor event.
 
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HuduVudu

HuduVudu

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Bro that is a bit childish. Your topic was about ich not about stress. Especially tangs with ich. If your ***** about my response change your topic to what you really want to talk about
I don't need to talk about ich because it is a non-issue for me.

I simply see ich as a warning that a fish is undergoing some sort of stress. If I am dealing with that stress then the ich will go away. For me stress is the important discussion, not the thing that is capitalizing on that stress.

As to the childishness of this, I find from your build thread you are most in need of this type of information. Stress in fish is real and it kills. I have seen it's effect for 35 years. Blaming the thing that killed and not the thing that opened up that possibility for that death is what many people struggle to understand.
 

Topekoms

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I don't need to talk about ich because it is a non-issue for me.

I simply see ich as a warning that a fish is undergoing some sort of stress. If I am dealing with that stress then the ich will go away. For me stress is the important discussion, not the thing that is capitalizing on that stress.

As to the childishness of this, I find from your build thread you are most in need of this type of information. Stress in fish is real and it kills. I have seen it's effect for 35 years. Blaming the thing that killed and not the thing that opened up that possibility for that death is what many people struggle to understand.
You mean my incomplete build thread that was an emergency build due to a house fire. Which 12 of the 15 lived thru. Sorry for your misunderstanding but my fish are fat and happy. Super childish you are trying to talk crap about my tank. Your a sad person go be a keyboard warrior to someone else. I have now ignored this post
 

Shooter6

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I hate to get involved in this and it is nice your tang is 4 years old in an ich free tank.
My hippo in this picture was 10 years old in an un quarantined ich infected tank.
That red fireclown is still alive and him and his mate are 30.



This mandarin was 10 here in the same "infected" tank



This copperband was 10 in the same tank


My new Hippo here is still a baby at 3 years old


Showing a fish a few years old in a quarantined tank is fine and proves a fish can live without parasites for a third of it's lifespan. You are a good aquarist and those fish probably love you. Now if those fish die of old age while never getting sick. That will be a success and prove your point.
So far I have not seen to many or even one quarantined fish that died of old age and was never sick. And spawn if it is they type of fish that can spawn.

PS, I also moved this tank. Fish and all.
This response was pointless
 

Shooter6

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This is one possible answer. There is probably a study to back it up, but just because it can be doesn't mean that it is. Mandrians are also smooth scaled and so are many of the gobies, they don't seem to have the reputation for ich.
The goby ect have thick mucus layers though. And again ick is attacking all your fish continually. Tangs just show it more then others.
The only way for the parasite to continue to live in your system is to complete the life cycle. Hatch, swim up, find a fish. Feed. Fall off and settle into the sand ect. Then hatch releasing thousands more. Just because your fish dont display symptoms doeznt mean they are not continually suffering. Its like herpes only curable. To not cure it and leaving fish to suffer is nothing to brag about!
 

Zionas

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What I’m more curious to know is why are certain species like the Powder Blue, Brown, White Cheek, Clown, Achilles, maybe a couple others especially known to be ich magnets over the Zebrasoma and maybe some select Acanthurus species? Not sure about Naso.
 
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HuduVudu

HuduVudu

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Just because your fish dont display symptoms doeznt mean they are not continually suffering.
How do you know that the fish are suffering from anything when they don't display symptoms.

Its like herpes only curable.
It is nothing like herpes. What is your definition of curable?

To not cure it and leaving fish to suffer is nothing to brag about!
Once again what is your definition of curable? Using copper to remove it from the fish. That doesn't cure it. Here's a thought what if the system predates the parasite when it is at it's weakest ... free floating in your tank.

Once again ... why you feel it is necessary to debate the topic of ich when the post is a about a specific stressor is beyond me. You are never going to agree with me and I am never going to agree with you. We could however agree that light pollution in aquariums is a stressor for our fish.
 
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