Thunder Goose Declares WAR on ALGAE - Two Month Update

[ThunderGoose]

I haven't been thrilled with my tank for a while. My corals don't seem to grow, just limp along for 4-6 months then die.

So I decided they weren't getting enough of something. Tried using BRS 2-part. Nope. Tried allowing nutrients in the tank to rise and... guess what? The corals are STILL not thriving but the nuisance algae is.

[Doesn't look too bad from here. MOST of the problem is in the back of the tank. AND the front is much easier to keep clean.]

Several different kinds of algae.

So I spent the past month reading posts, watching @BRS videos, looking at other locations on line, asking fellow reefers for advice.

Most of what I got was confused, contradictory advice.

But what was left? Resulted in a Plan of Attack.

Week 1 (this week):

pull algae by hand as much as possible (I've been doing this), scrub with toothbrush what I can't pull.

H2O2 dip what I could remove. Drip H2O2 on exposed rock when I could. [mixed results from first attempt]

Three large water changes (aiming for 30%, but probably closer to 20) in a very short time period.

Change lighting program - using Coral Labs LPS lighting schedule, long ramp time (for longer viewing) at lower intensity. No, I don't have a par meter. Yes, I should either get one or borrow one and check it. I think my local reefing club has one that's available to borrow. Looking into it.


Other changes:

Reduce feeding.

Add extra cartridges to RODI system. My TDS is not zero. Aiming for zero.

Add snails to replace ones that have died of old age or been killed by the mantis shrimp. Yes, I know some of them will be mantis food.

Start Triton dosing. I like the idea of only having to measure alk and having all the dosing based off ONE measurement, not trying to adjust alk and calcium and magnesium and... It seems easier and I am all for easy.

Target feed corals.

Do not buy any new corals until tank has been stable for 4 - 6 months (yeah, like THAT's gonna happen).

Be inspired by @MJC softy tank and go for softies more than anything else (I had been trying for an LPS focus because I read so many people who regretted getting this soft coral or that soft coral... I'll avoid Kenya trees and pulsing xenia and blue sympodium... I think those are the worst offenders).

Wish me luck.

[apologies for poor picture qualities, I tried something new with my phone and it didn't work]

 

[revhtree]

Let's GO! We're behind you!

 

[mcarroll]

H2O2 dip what I could remove. Drip H2O2 on exposed rock when I could. [mixed results from first attempt]

This is at least as likely to result in even more algae.

Change lighting program

This risks stressing corals and probably won't help. Get at least a lux meter before making any lighting changes.

Reduce feeding.

Not unless you're overfeeding.

Target feed corals.

Don't feed corals if you have fish.

I didn't see nutrient test results or how you're managing nutrients...the trend is to over-manage them, starving out everything but the algae, so you may have room to back off some things there.

 

[ThunderGoose]

I'm working on adjusting PAR - I finally got to the top of the list for borrowing my local club's PAR meter. Yes! And I bought a new nitrate test kit. I had been using API. I know they aren't popular because you have to be precise but with decades of lab experience I felt I could be precise. What I didn't like was the trying to guess which color matched. So I went to Salifert. Sadly it's a color matching one as well, so some guess work is involved. I need a spectrophotometer...

The results of the Salifert test were very, very different from the results of the API test. I'd been getting readings around 2 on API and my first try with Salifert got 50.

Huh?

So I tested with the API and Salifert at the same time from the same sample and found....

It turns out that the recommended 30 sec of vigorous shaking recommended in the API test kit IS critically important. NOW they match and I found my nitrates are around 40 ppm (the last API test read 2 ppm - just over a week ago).

I think I found my problem....

Still, my adventures of puling algae, reducing lighting, doing a bunch of water changes and using H2O2 on exposed rock has brought my total load of algae down quite a bit. Now off to read threads on how to reduce nitrate. Ta!

 

[dimidragos]

I'm working on adjusting PAR - I finally got to the top of the list for borrowing my local club's PAR meter. Yes! And I bought a new nitrate test kit. I had been using API. I know they aren't popular because you have to be precise but with decades of lab experience I felt I could be precise. What I didn't like was the trying to guess which color matched. So I went to Salifert. Sadly it's a color matching one as well, so some guess work is involved. I need a spectrophotometer...

The results of the Salifert test were very, very different from the results of the API test. I'd been getting readings around 2 on API and my first try with Salifert got 50.

Huh?

So I tested with the API and Salifert at the same time from the same sample and found....

It turns out that the recommended 30 sec of vigorous shaking recommended in the API test kit IS critically important. NOW they match and I found my nitrates are around 40 ppm (the last API test read 2 ppm - just over a week ago).

I think I found my problem....

Still, my adventures of puling algae, reducing lighting, doing a bunch of water changes and using H2O2 on exposed rock has brought my total load of algae down quite a bit. Now off to read threads on how to reduce nitrate. Ta!

It's also important to reed the Salifert test immediately after 3 minutes. I use a stopwatch to be accurate.

 

[cracker]

I'm doing just about the same ! I'll be watching to see how your efforts work out !

 

[ThunderGoose]

I'm doing just about the same ! I'll be watching to see how your efforts work out !

Good to know I'm not in this alone!

I am seeing some progress - my chaeto is growing, my refugium is full of pods, and you can tell I've been pulling and scrubbing algae. There's still a LONG way to go. I'm determined to take my time and get it right. Something that's easier said than done.

After hours on the intertubes I've come up with a tweak to my strategy. Well, several tweaks.

1) monitor nitrate and phosphate (and alk) daily
2) do 5 gal water changes several times a week (it's about 70 gallons in total)
3) added a bag of GFO and I'm thinking about setting up a media reactor with GFO for the phosphates - I'll decide this in a few days
4) per @Randy Holmes-Farley I'm dosing vinegar daily. Fingers crossed it'll be a positive in the system
5) Dosing NOPOx weekly at a rate determined by nitrate and phosphate testing

Continue working the Triton system. Dosing and growing chaeto, with ICP testing once the alk is stabilized.
I've got a PAR meter on loan this week and I'll be dialing in my lighting. Based on a bunch of different locations and data points I'm aiming for low to mid 100s on the sand bed and 250 - 300 up top. If that works with my set up.
I got some extra supplies for my RODI system and The Husband and I are setting it up next weekend. He has a LOT more patience that I do. Plus it's got to be easier than the HPLC and Mass Spec he uses at work. Fingers crossed for 0 TDS!

 

[cracker]

I assure You, Your not the only one with algae issues! I'm opposite of your issues. My tanks are nutrient deficient. I have to dose! Yet I still have algae issues. Your game plan of scrubbing & getting as much out as possiblre is good. I found Adding a LOT more snails is helping me. I also very slowly drip my new snails for at least 2 hours ! I hardly lose any this way.
This advice came from Mcarroll & is working for me.

 

[ThunderGoose]

Update: yesterday my nitrate was 40 and phosphate 69 (ouch). I did a ~5% water change, dosed vinegar, added a bag of GFO and 2 mL NOPOx.

Today: Nitrate 30, phosphate 39!

I'll dose vinegar again and do another 5% water change today. Progress!

I also ordered some more trochus snails. Hopefully they survive the heat during shipping [my LFS is a0 only open on weekends and b0 not currently carrying trochus snail due to high mortality when they come in].

 

[mcarroll]

Sadly it's a color matching one as well, so some guess work is involved. I need a spectrophotometer...

What you can hopefully tell is the difference between 0.00 ppm and each higher color-graduation – it's not important to discern the shades in between for our purposes. (You'll need a Hanna Checker, or similar for that.)

If you read zero color, that's 0.00 ppm and is a problem.

The color change above zero is probably the first OK level, and above that is generally fine/no worries.

Today: Nitrate 30, phosphate 39!

I'll dose vinegar again and do another 5% water change today. Progress!

Those numbers aren't all that high and changes don't show up all at once – you'll be seeing the effects kick in over the scope of weeks – so be careful with applying so many "fixes" all at once.

Overshooting and crashing the tank's nutrient levels to zero is a very real possibility/danger and can bring worse things than algae to your tank. (Think: Dino's!)

IMO at the number you're posting and considering the rate of descent for those numbers, I think I'd stop all the extras except aggressive water changes. And stop those when either PO4 or NO3 gets into a more ideal range.

 

[ThunderGoose]

Thanks @mcarroll . I'm not surprised I'm overdoing things. It's the way I tend to live life (go ahead ask me how often I injure myself when working out...) and I'm VERY frustrated with this tank (my first). It's been up since December 2016 and has never achieved stability or had successful coral growth (no problems with fish or invertebrates though).

I'll step back from everything but water changes and continuing to work on tuning my lights to the "right" PAR range.

 

[mcarroll]

Speaking of which, since you don't own the PAR meter you might consider getting a lux meter to use WITH the PAR meter. PAR * lux of the same reading on the same tank/lights will give you a usable lux-to-PAR conversion factor that can be applied to future lux readings (of your lights) to accurately convert them into PAR.

2¢

 

[ThunderGoose]

Speaking of which, since you don't own the PAR meter you might consider getting a lux meter to use WITH the PAR meter. PAR * lux of the same reading on the same tank/lights will give you a usable lux-to-PAR conversion factor that can be applied to future lux readings (of your lights) to accurately convert them into PAR.

2¢

Great idea. I have a LUX meter already. I'll take some readings this afternoon and create a conversion equation for future reference!

 

[ThunderGoose]

Update:

I'm still pulling algae every day or two BUT my corals are looking better. I'm increasing the amount of light and target feeding them. I'm now thinking they never had enough light. Good thing I was able to borrow that PAR meter. The final setting for the lighting will be higher than I've ever had it. Fingers crossed the corals do well and the BTA doesn't decide to split more frequently (still trying to figure out how to get a couple of them off my glued-in-place rock).

Nitrate and phosphate are slowly coming down. I backed off to water changes every couple of day and will continue to taper as long as those numbers don't rise. Once I get back to once a week I'll dial in my dosing pump for the Triton supplements.

My chaeto is growing like crazy. I'm guessing that's where at least some of the nitrates and phosphates are going. I did lengthen the lighting exposure to the refugium to encourage this.

The Husband and I were trying to connect the new cartridges to my old RODI unit yesterday. He had mounted a board on the wall for us to mount everything on for better access. Somehow during this process he (yes, it was him) damaged a push connector. After 5. On a Sunday. My LFS is only open Fri-Sun. Guess who's paying INSANE shipping costs to get a replacement shipped. I can't make RODI or salt water till it comes in (hopefully tomorrow). Eeep. I ordered extra connectors. It's amazing how much stuff I have downstairs "in case of emergency."

Looking forward to 0 TDS!

 

[ThunderGoose]

Got 0 TDS! Finally. Many thanks to @PHXRISING for the private conversation about RODI systems. Very helpful stuff.

Still pulling and scrubbing hair algae regularly (like every other day). Now getting a reddish film algae on the glass, too. It's not out of control anymore but it's still a lot of work. Important hint: don't test water quality right after scrubbing algae. Your phosphate reading will be quite scary.

Not that I did that.

Twice.

My nitrates are between 15 and 20, phosphate are 16 ppb. Good news is my alkalinity usage is rising. I've adjusted the lighting and I think this means the corals are starting to grow. I've had to adjust my dosing pump. I've gone back down to one water change a week.

The bad news is that my urchin chewed on the wire to one of my powerheads and now that powerhead isn't working. Fortunately I have spares (cheap spares. Did I mention I have an insane amount of "in case of emergency" stuff int eh basement?)! I've ordered an EcoTech Marine Vortex to replace it. The motor on these is OUTSIDE the tank and so is the cord. Safe from the urchin. (I have a protective wrap on the other powerhead but I guess I just forgot to do in on this one).

I'll replace the other powerhead with another EcoTech when the budget allows so I can coordinate flow in the tank but I think the tank can survive a while with uncoordinated powerheads.

I think I'm making progress but it's slow. Patience is hard.

 

[ThunderGoose]

Two weeks since the last round of changes. I'm still manually pulling hair algae (and scrubbing patches off rocks with a toothbrush) BUT it seems to be declining slowly. Very slowly. There are still a few places where it's hard to remove and it's hanging on or even being a bit aggressive. My zoa rock in particular (where it's hard to pull and I can't scrub because it's growing in the zoas). If I could I'd pull that one out to work on it but my big feather duster is firmly attached to said rock and I don't want to risk her.

Most of my corals are liking the changes. Hopefully this means they'll start to do better. I borrowed a PAR meter from a fellow reefer and found out my lights were not turned up enough. I gradually raised it to an appropriate PAR. I've also moved powerheads around to make sure I have at least some current everywhere (there were a few "dead" spots and they had the most algae growth).

 

[ThunderGoose]

Patience has paid off. It's been two months since I started this thread and wow! I'm sure I'll never completely get rid of algae (that's part of having a tank) but I don't have a "problem" with algae anymore.

FTS. I'm still not great at photographing my tank but here's a shot that shows the full tank. I did remove one rock that was particularly covered with hair algae but other than that it's been pick, pick, pick the algae, regular water changes, increasing my lighting, and using the Triton method to stabilize my water conditions. My corals are a lot happier, too. I've actually seen a bit of growth on some of them.

The first post I have a photo of this rock covered with algae. There's still a bit under my sponge where it's hard to pull but it's mostly gone. And look how much happier the sponge looks!

MAJOR THANK YOU to everyone who helped me out and offered suggestions. This is a great reefing community.

 

[mcarroll]

Awesome news! Thanks for posting the update!!!