Tin in black vinyl tubing from brs ?

[Hugo’s_Reef]

I just got my icp results back and it came back showing I have heavy amounts on tin in my aquarium. I recently added a frag tank to my system and plumbed it with vinyl tubing from the Home Depot.

I’ve been reading older post where other reefers have gotten high Tin readings when usinga HD vinyl tubing. Unfortunately I’m using 12’ of both 1/2” and 1” tubing.

It looks like everyone is having better luck with the Tygon brand hose but I can’t seem to find it in stock or better yet locally without having to buy a 50’ roll.

i was wondering if anyone has tested or has experience high Tin reading using the BRS black vinyl tubing since this seems to be my most readily available one at the moment.

 

[TokenReefer]

How're they linking it to the vinyl tubing?

 

[spsick]

The colored tubing is even worse than the braided for whatever reason. Silicone is readily available albeit expensive and doesn’t leach if tygon can’t be acquired.

I honestly don’t know why BRS sells the stuff knowing what we know and they should know.

 

[Hugo’s_Reef]

How're they linking it to the vinyl tubing?

@Dr. Jim did a few test a while ago soaking clear tubing in ro water and sending out ICP test. My tank has been set up for 3 years with no issues until I added the frag tank . That’s the only reason I’m able to link the issue.

Tin Leaching from Common Plastic Tubing and a Very Inert Tubing that I Found

I'm sure many of you are tired of me posting about tin leaching from plastic, but for those having "tin problems" this might be helpful. Although I found tin leaching from many plastic products, I found that plastic tubing may be the worst culprit. I performed "soak tests" where I would soak...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[TokenReefer]

Im reading through that post now. You've looked at all the metal components and ruled them out already?

 

[Hugo’s_Reef]

Im reading through that post now. You've looked at all the metal components and ruled them out already?

Based on what I’ve read and please correct me if I’m wrong , when it’s a metal or rust usually you see other metals show up on the ICP ?

everything else came out fine on my results just the tin. I did look around aswell and didn’t find anything .

https://www.triton-lab.de/en/showroom/icp-oes/130987

 

[thatmanMIKEson]

Just one icp test?

 

[TokenReefer]

I'm sorry I'm just not convinced but if you're having real issues I understand the concern. Seems like wc's would bring the levels down... How much degradation is occurring in these tubes? As pointed out in that thread this is a hard one to pinpoint cause and I agree. Spurious correlations do occur..

 

[TokenReefer]

Also as done with rodi the ph can be acidic which would not represent the levels in our systems... Still not convinced

 

[Hugo’s_Reef]

Just one icp test?

At the moment just one ICP test ,I will be sending out more but I just lost another colony I’ve this morning that’s been in my tank for over 3 years and i can’t find any other issue.

 

[spsick]

I'm sorry I'm just not convinced but if you're having real issues I understand the concern. Seems like wc's would bring the levels down... How much degradation is occurring in these tubes? As pointed out in that thread this is a hard one to pinpoint cause and I agree. Spurious correlations do occur..

On 2 separate occasions new vinyl tubing added to my system caused a huge tin event that killed acros. First was setting up a water mixing station, second was adding a UV canister to kill Dinos. All the correlation I needed. On my new build I used silicone= no tin.

 

[Hugo’s_Reef]

I'm sorry I'm just not convinced but if you're having real issues I understand the concern. Seems like wc's would bring the levels down... How much degradation is occurring in these tubes? As pointed out in that thread this is a hard one to pinpoint cause and I agree. Spurious correlations do occur..

I just want to eliminate as many possibilities as I can since I’m starting to loose coral. I’m currently mixing up some water to start doing some water changes.

 

[TokenReefer]

I can understand that. The more I dig in, it looks like tin is used in A LOT of plastics manufacturing. I wouldn't know what to eliminate... Do you have any oddball pieces of equipment? Something cheap you found on amazon perhaps? Def rule the tubing out if you can but if I'm using standard hobby items used by thousands (millions?) I'd be looking for something that stood out from the crowd, like a cheap no brand ph I bought on amazon or something... Not trying to de-rail ya, just help, sorry if I did

 

[Hugo’s_Reef]

I can understand that. The more I dig in, it looks like tin is used in A LOT of plastics manufacturing. I wouldn't know what to eliminate... Do you have any oddball pieces of equipment? Something cheap you found on amazon perhaps? Def rule the tubing out if you can but if I'm using standard hobby items used by thousands (millions?) I'd be looking for something that stood out from the crowd, like a cheap no brand ph I bought on amazon or something... Not trying to de-rail ya, just help, sorry if I did

Fortunately I always try to by named brand reliable stuff to reduce situations like this . My tank is also pretty simple no uv, no reactor etc.

i only use ecotech lights,return pumps , and wave makers , skimmer is nyos , heater is brs titanium, refugium light is Neptune , that’s pretty much it.
Unfortunately that’s what I’ve been reading as well that Tin is a tough one to pinpoint exactly where it’s coming from.

 

[TokenReefer]

Fortunately I always try to by named brand reliable stuff to reduce situations like this . My tank is also pretty simple no uv, no reactor etc.

i only use ecotech lights,return pumps , and wave makers , skimmer is nyos , heater is brs titanium, refugium light is Neptune , that’s pretty much it.
Unfortunately that’s what I’ve been reading as well that Tin is a tough one to pinpoint exactly where it’s coming from.

Probably a good idea; as long as it's commonly used imo. Unless you got that one that came off the line wrong... definably hard to pinpoint. If the wc's reduce the tin, will you see if it comes back up or are you just going to replace the tubing anyway? Do you do regular wc's (wondering if reg wc's negate this issue)?

Either way if you would update with your progress it could be a great help to community. I know I'll be following

 

[Hugo’s_Reef]

Probably a good idea; as long as it's commonly used imo. Unless you got that one that came off the line wrong... definably hard to pinpoint. If the wc's reduce the tin, will you see if it comes back up or are you just going to replace the tubing anyway? Do you do regular wc's (wondering if reg wc's negate this issue)?

Either way if you would update with your progress it could be a great help to community. I know I'll be following

At the moment I don’t know if I’m certain the hose is the issue or I’m really hoping it is since that would be a quick and easy fix .

so for now I’m just going to replace the tubing , that’s if I can find the 1” since I’m having trouble finding it in 14-15’ lengths.

I run the triton method so I don’t usually do water changes but I do ICP test about every 4-5 months .

I will keep you guys updated, once I do some water changes and change the hoses I’ll send in another ICP .

 

[thatmanMIKEson]

At the moment I don’t know if I’m certain the hose is the issue or I’m really hoping it is since that would be a quick and easy fix .

so for now I’m just going to replace the tubing , that’s if I can find the 1” since I’m having trouble finding it in 14-15’ lengths.

I run the triton method so I don’t usually do water changes but I do ICP test about every 4-5 months .

I will keep you guys updated, once I do some water changes and change the hoses I’ll send in another ICP .

Have you checked your r.o system and filters ? Have you tested the source water, worth seeing if you have high tin in your tap water although you don't do water changes, it could come in with top off.

 

[Hugo’s_Reef]

Have you checked your r.o system and filters ? Have you tested the source water, worth seeing if you have high tin in your tap water although you don't do water changes, it could come in with top off.

I haven’t checked the ro maybe my next test I’ll do ati, I believe that’s the one that checks your tank water and RO. I recently did change out all the filters in my RO and if never had a high Tin reading before .

 

[Dr. Jim]

Also as done with rodi the ph can be acidic which would not represent the levels in our systems... Still not convinced

The RODI water I used was NOT acidic so that wasn't the cause. I used RODI water instead of saltwater (which contains RODI water of course) because RODI water is very "reactive" (meaning it has a tendency to draw elements into solution). These "soak tests" are very "short-lived" compared to "real time" which can be years that the plastic in our tanks is in contact with water so the idea was to see if any tin could be drawn out of the plastic during this relatively short "soak test." My thinking was that RODI would have a greater chance of pulling out the tin in a relatively short span of time. The fact that it did should surely indicate that the same will probably happen with saltwater over a greater length of time.

There is no doubt in my mind that elevated tin on ICP tests, especially in the absence of other metals being detected, is probably coming from plastics, especially common plastic tubing. It is not difficult to repeat the soak test(s) that I did so if anyone is frustrated with elevated tin, you might want to consider performing a "soak test" similar to what I did to convince yourself.

 

[spsick]

@Dr. Jim remind me, in your test did you have the RO water heated?